The Kings of Quad

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by umronnie, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. umronnie

    umronnie Well-Known Member

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    The Kings of Quad: An off-season project for quad-lovers, history buffs and rabid fans

    Brian Joubert's Wikipedia page claims, without corroboration, that "Since 2001, he has landed more than 100 quadruple jumps in international competitions". Evgeny Plushenko's page is a little less definitive "It is estimated that he has landed a total of about 100 quads in competition". Reading this I was curious to know whether they have, indeed, landed 100 quads in international competition, and – which one of them has landed more quads?

    To find the answer I looked into the international competitions listed for each of them on their Wikipedia page. I checked CoP protocols, written reports over FSU, GS and other sources, as well as a few dozen youtube clips. I am still missing records of their quad attempts and results (landed/failed) for a couple of competitions.

    If anyone has information on the following competitions it would help complete the listing:
    Euros 2000 qualifying (Plush), Finlandia 2000 (Plush, both SP and LP), Euros 2002 Qualifying (Baboo), Euros 2004 qualifying (both).
     
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    You must have been really curious to tackle such a thing...

    Anyway, they both landed their quads in the qualifying at 2004 Euros (source), and Joubert landed a quad in the QR at 2002 Euros (source). No idea about the 2000 events.

    Considering how long they have both been skating, I think it's likely that they have landed quite a lot of quads. But I've never seen any source that states an outright number for either.
     
  3. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    This thread got me wondering about the Queens. (The ladies, I mean... :shuffle:)

    Found this on wikipedia:

     
  4. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    I was in the stands and saw Sasha land that quad. It was a good one.
     
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  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I don't have the answers to the questions posed, but umronnie, I hope you will share what you have done so far. It sounds like a lot of work went into that. I imagine Plushenko must be well ahead even without the handful of events from 2000. You might be able to get your answers at a Plushenko fan forum - hopefully a Russian poster can volunteer to help you post it. He has to have ubers who tracked those events.
     
  6. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think Javi might earn the reputation as the next Quad King. His quads were his most consistent jumps last season, and his 4t and 4s were equally good! His 4s might even be better than his 4t which is pretty rare. Amazing quad jumper. Hanyu's 4t is also very good, but not as consistent as Javi's quads. According to recent news, he has 4s now too and plans to try it in his FS (along with the 4t) this season.
     
  7. umronnie

    umronnie Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to the info Zemgirl provided I was able to complete Joubert's list. I now have him at 95 confirmed quads out of 117 attempts - that is quite an amazing 81% success rate.

    You'd be surprised that Plushy is not well ahead. In fact, I have him at 94 successful quads out of 110 attempts (that's an amazing 85% success rate!). I assume the missing data could provide up to 5 more quads, and that would put him within one jump from the elusive 100.

    I'm not sure people understand how amazing it is to get to this "mass" of quads. It would take years of competing plus an excellent technique to get there. Takahashi has been competing nearly as long as Joubert (he has 9 years of comeptition compared with Brian's 11) and has landed 20-something quads in that time. I haven't checked Stojko's record but I suspect his count will be in the 50s, as will be Yagudin's, and they are probably the closest.

    Yeah, a lot of work went into this facts-finding mission, but I figured someone has to do it ;-)
     
  8. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Wow, I would have thought that since Plushy has been doing them in competition since he was 15, he'd be much further ahead. That makes Joubert's stat pretty impressive.
     
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  9. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    Did you really check all their competitions? ISu, Gps etc ? wow, that looks like a lot of work to do:eek:
     
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  10. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Plushenko has done it in the SP and LP for so many years and successfully, I thought he was way ahead of Joubert.
     
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  11. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I'm not surprised it's fairly close. Joubert has been doing quads since he was 17 or so, does them in both the SP and the LP, and hasn't taken full seasons off - so it pretty much evens out despite Plushenko's earlier start and relative consistency. Regardless, I think it's impressive that they've both been able to skate at the level they have for so long.

    How much work went into this, umronnie? I figure the big events and anything with protocols wouldn't be hard to find but it's still a lot of time - and the 6.0 stuff, especially for smaller competitions, must have been a challenge.

    ETA: I found something for you...
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
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  12. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Wow, go Joubert! :D I didn't think it would be that close. The point about Plushy taking seasons off is well taken, and in recent years Joubert has been more likely to attempt 2 quads in the LP (3 at some events in 2006-07), while Plushy has been attempting just one in the LP. I didn't realize both were so far ahead of their competitors as well - very cool.

    Are you counting rotated quads, or totally clean ones though? Joubert often seems to turn out or step out of his quads, while Plushenko's are usually 100% clean if he doesn't fall (which he hasn't done since... 2005 worlds?).
     
  13. umronnie

    umronnie Well-Known Member

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    To answer your questions re how, what and how long, I haven't counted the time I spent on this project. The recent competitions - anything held under CoP - were easy to do since I keep copies of the protocol pdfs. It takes very little time to go through the proticols if you have a list of competitions. The ones held under 6.0 were a bigger problem, of course. I spend several hours wading through clips on youtube. The problem is that some of these clips' quality is not very good (we are talking about older competitions, after all) and it's not always clear what the jump is.

    As I said in the title, it's a project for quad-lovers, history buffs and rabid fans, and I guess I am a bit of all three.

    As for what I considered a landed quad - basically any fully rotated quad that the skater stood on. Turn-outs, step-outs and hands were accepted. Rotated quads so flawed that they received a -3 GoE, even without the fall deduction, I considered "incomplete" and not landed. I only considered international competitions - WC, EC, OG, GPs and senior Bs - mostly because it is very hard to get the records for domestic competitions, but you can assume that in 11 seasons they also landed more than 10 quads each in national competitions...

    Plushy and Joubert have both competed for 11 seasons so the number of competitions they attended - and thus the opportunity to land quads - is roughly the same.

    And here's another interesting bit of information: in all those years I counted ONE program Joubert did not attempt a quad in (TEB08 SP, where he only managed a 1T), and FIVE programs that Plushenko did not attempt a quad in, three of them when he was just 16, so we'll forgive him. Let's not hear about "watered down" content again, shall we?
     
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Joubert only did three one time (2006 CoR) but he does still go for two on occasion, most recently in the SP at the Challenge Cup (IIRC). I think Plushenko has never landed more than two in one program because he only does 4T (although he has tried the 4Lz).

    FWIW, Joubert hasn't taken whole seasons off, but he has missed quite a few events in recent years due to medical issues.

    I just like researching stuff, even relatively meaningless things. ;)

    Joubert's miss at 2008 TEB was unintentional - he did plan a quad, but got the pick in wrong IIRC. I know of one competition as a senior where he deliberately did not attempt a quad: 2010-11 French Nats, in the LP.

    Either way, pretty cool that they've landed so many quads and are still landing them at age 29 (Plushenko) and 27 (Joubert). I wonder which active skaters have the next highest number.
     
  15. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    Wow, a big research has been done. I may make videos with their quads after I've finished all of the ladies videos I'm making right now.

    I think Stephane Lambiel also landed a quad many times. He couldn't do triple axel in SP so he had no choice other than to go for a quad.
     
  16. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for putting in all that effort! I am a skating and numbers and records geek, so I really appreciate it. I wonder how many quads Tim Goebel landed? He was sometimes referred to as the Quad King at least on U.S. broadcasts, and for a while was attempting a quad in the SP and 3 in the LP.
     
  17. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Good study. Interesting that Joubert has 1 more. If Plushenko had done one in the SP at Euros 2012 that would be 95. Their methods are so different but a lot of success. Admire their ability to get that ability and keep the ability for so long! It's totally remarkable!
     
  18. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Source

    "A final note: Canada’s Joannie Rochette landed one quad jump in Tuesday’s practice sessions but did not plan to attempt it yet in competition."
     
  19. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm expecting the next quad king to be Brezina. His jumping is just so explosive. His 3F is like 8 feet in the air. He has the ability to develop more than 2 different quads.

    I'm guessing, though, that the first to do 3 diff quads in one competition may end up being Kevin Reynolds. He's got a good hit rate on the toe, sal and loop in practice so it's a matter of time before all 3 are done in competition. Doesn't guarantee him 'quad king' status, but will turn a number of heads.
     
  20. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Wow, this is stunning!

    So three of the five were when he was 16. One of them would have been his SP at Euros this year. Which was the other one? *ponders*
     
  21. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    QR at worlds 2005 I would bet!
     
  22. umronnie

    umronnie Well-Known Member

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    yes
     
  23. umronnie

    umronnie Well-Known Member

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    So I spent a few days checking out records, trying to find the "next runner up". Turns out I was wrong about Stojko - he hasn't landed nearly as many quads as I thought.

    I'm missing some data, of course (for early comps under 6.0 for which I could not find youtube clips) so I will list the precentage of competitions I managed to cover. Who wold you guess came next to Jobert and Plushy?

    Yagudin - I managed to cover all of his competitions except for some qualifying rounds and easrly comps of 1996. With 92% of his competitions accounted for I have him at 56 quads at an astounding success rate of 90%! And to think he seemed vulnerable next to Plush.

    For Goebel I covered 86% of his comps. I have him at 48 quads and an amazing success rate of 89%! I estimate his total at 56 (48/86%) - so about the same as Yags.

    Lambiel I also covered 86% of his comps. Luckily there were more under CoP. I have him at 46 confirmed quads. His success rate is 72%.

    Elvis is somewhere in the mid 20s, with a success rate of about 60%. Amazing that he's had such an impact on the sport with these stats.

    Of the skaters in competition today I have:
    Kevin Reynolds at 31 quads and a success rate of 63% (he tends to underrotate)
    Takahashi at 23 and a 61% success rate
    Chan at 20 and a 74% success rate
    Brezina (mentioned above as "the next king") at only 7 quads and a success rate of 58%.
    Will check up Fernandez and Amodio next. Anyone else?

    Of course, Joubert and Plushenko are still competing, as well...
     
  24. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I just noticed this addition to the thread - that's pretty neat that Yagudin managed so many, considering the length of his career and the age at which he retired. Mishin knows what he's doing with jump technique.

    It's worth noting that unlike current competitors, the success rate of 6.0 skaters wasn't affected by UR calls. OTOH, not all of them had as many opportunities to include quads in their programs, due to SP requirements at the time.
     
  25. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    Not that these guys go into the Kings of Quads running (it was a different time) but each made quad history in their own way - Urmanov landed the first successful quad in Olympic competition at Albertville (his OGM performance four years later in Lillehamer, 1994, was quad-less and I think way off his best in many respects but he won); Kulik was the first OGM to land a successful quad as part of his O's winning performance (Nagano, 1998)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  26. flipforsynchro

    flipforsynchro New Member

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    I am one of Brezina's biggest fans and it would be amazing if he could. But he needs to seriously start actually landing all of his huge jumps in competition, and stop hunching over on some of them.
     
  27. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting. Thanks for all the findings. Looks like Yag had the highest success rates. I am surprised that Brian is ahead of Plushenko in no. of quad jumps. Intuitively, I would have thought Plushenko is the man in quad jumps.
     
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  28. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I believe all of Joubert's competitions are accounted for, while Plushenko still has one missing (2000 Finlandia Trophy). So it's likely that they're tied, or Plushenko might have one or two more. However, assuming Joubert will indeed skate a full season in 2012-13, which it looks like Plushenko isn't planning on doing, that should change.

    I think the person who might come close to their totals, if he sticks around long enough, is Yuzuru Hanyu - mainly because he's still so young and started putting quads in his programs very early in his career: his first successful one, according to Wikipedia, was at the 2010 NHK Trophy (he was only 15 at the time).
     
  29. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    How did you even find competition results of Plushenko, before 2000? He has a bunch of ancient competitions, I didnt know they existed.
    Finlandlia trophy I never saw a video from there

    anyway I found this data on his previous website, does it agree with your search?
    Lol look what you can find on web archives, a comment about Filandia Trophy, the date is in 2000 ancient yahoo grooups???:rofl:
     
  30. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Urmonov put his hand down on the landing of the quad toe in Albertville so it didn't count as the first quad at an Olympics. Looking it up it looks like Min Zhang landed the first clean quad in an Olympic competition in 1994.