The Joshua and Jason Uber Thread!

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by misskarne, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Where did you get your information that Evan was "pretty seriously injured." Last I heard, Evan had a groin injury that was not considered to be serious. In fact, if Evan's injury was deemed to be as serious as you proclaim (so serious that he may not be able to compete at Nationals), then USFSA would have already assigned another skater to Skate America.

    Evan has a groin injury. Some groin injuries can be severe, and even a minor groin injury can become chronic if not treated properly. However, it was reported that Evan's was not severe. As with all groin injuries, they require rest to heal properly. From all accounts, Evan has been resting the injury (cancelled Sun Valley performance and did not perform programs at Champs Camp) However, there has been no indication that Evan will have to W/D from Skate America or miss Nationals because of the groin injury.
  2. mossop

    mossop New Member

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    Wishful thinking? Less veterans, less competition.;)
  3. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    :lol: Gotta watch out for those sneaky honor-roll skaters. And really, how can they beat the tales of late-night UNO?

    Ey? Last I heard it was a minor groin injury that pulled him out of a couple of shows/Champs Camp. He's still expected to skate at SkAm. I'm expecting him to be at Nationals.
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the injury is minor. I just read an article recently where they made it sound like a pretty big deal...maybe that was intentional though to protect Lysacek's reputation should he show up to SKAM and/or Nationals a shadow of his former self.
  5. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    :rolleyes:
  6. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    It's time to turn the page. Johnny and Evan have had their time in the sun and have gone to two Olympics. It's time for the younger kids to get their chance and not live in the past.
  7. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    I am glad that USA Swimming did not take that attitude, or else Michael Phelps would have only competed in 2 or 3 Olympics instead of 4. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Each federations goal is to send its BEST athletes to compete at the Olympics. If Johnny and/or Evan are among the two best skaters (or three, if USA earns the third spot at 2013 Worlds) at 2014 U.S. Nationals, then they deserve to compete at the 2014 Olympics. If Johnny and/or Evan are still among the top skaters in the USA in 2014, it will not be "living in the past" for them to compete in Sochi. Just like Johnny and Evan, the younger skaters will get "their chance" to earn a spot on the 2014 Olympic Team at the 2014 U.S. Nationals.

    It will be interesting to see what Johnny and Evan can do this season. I am kind of fond of "living in the past"....when the US men were actually competitive at the World Championship. Johnny and Evan have not competed in two seasons, yet they still have the highest personal best ISU scores among the USA skaters (#5- Lysacek 257.67; # 15 - Weir 238.87)
  8. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Disagree with this attitude entirely. If Josh and Jason want their chance they have to EARN it. If Johnny and Evan come out on top of the pile then they go. If Plushenko comes out on top of the pile at RN then he goes. If the youngsters can't beat the oldsters that's THEIR problem. There's no way the oldsters should be forced out to make way for the youngsters.

    I absolutely loathe this attitude. It smacks of feeling entitled. It's not the old guys' problem if the young ones can't beat them, end of story. Maybe the young ones who bleat about this attitude should do less bleating and more training...

    Let the youngsters prove they deserve it over the oldsters.
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Link please?

    I'll see what I can do! ;)

    At least Angela tweeted a few photos from Lake Placid:
    Josh and I with our coaches in Lake Placid
    Sometimes we pretend to like each other :) haha
    Lake Placid was GORGEOUS!

    ETA: Well that was quick! Joshua Farris' and Angela Wang's Saturday Lake Placid blog entry is up now! :) http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120829&content_id=37581836&vkey=ice_news
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
  10. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
  11. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    You really can't compare scores from 2 years ago with the scoring system currently in place. For example, among the many revisions to COP since 2010, the most significant one is that now there are only 7 required elements in the SP as opposed to the 8 elements that were in place in 2010. The men now only have 1 step sequence in the SP. In 2010 and prior years, they had 2 step sequences (an additional element to earn points). Jeremy Abbott's personal best ISU total score is 238.82 based on the 2012 season GPFinal, just 0.05 shy of Weir's total score from 2010. Had Abbott been given the opportunity to perform an extra SP step sequence in last season's GPF, there's no question he would have beaten Weir's score, barring completely wiping out on the step sequence, of course. ;)
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this however, I don't like a situation where the federation finagles scores to reflection reputation, allowing an oldster to narrowly come out on top of a youngster by inflating the scores of the oldster and holding back the scores of the youngster. I get that Evan and Johnny deserve good PCS, but if they come out at Nationals, fail to land a quad and/or make other mistakes, then I don't think their PCS should allow them to finish ahead of a youngster like Josh if he shows up to Nationals and skates lights out nailing 3a and 4t in the SP and FS. I get there's more to skating than jumps, but there are a lot of men in the US who are sufficient enough in the other areas of skating (Miner, Rippon, Farris, Brown, Messing, Mahbanoozadeh, Dornbush) that Lysacek, Weir, or Abbott should be able to beat them with weak technical content and/or mistakes if one/several of them should skate cleanly and display very difficult technical content just because USFS inflates the PCS scores of the older guys enough to overcome this gap while not inflating the PCS, and possibly even deflating the PCS, of these younger guys. That's what I worry about. If Evan, Johnny, and Jeremy can land the big tricks and keep up the level of the rest of their skating and other guys don't do better, then by all means, they should go to the Olympics, I just want whoever goes to have earned the spot fairly.
  13. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Look at the list of ISU personal best scores carefully. The majority of the top 20 scores were earned AFTER the post 2010 Olympic revisions to the COP. (may have taken out step sequence but quads now worth more points) Had Abbott executed his programs at ISU competitions the way he has at US National, then he would have exceeded Weir and/or Lysacek's personal best ISU scores.
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    FWIW, Angela replied to my tweet earlier today as follows:
    It wasn't long afterwards that their updated blog was posted on IceNetwork. ;)
  15. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    And I hope it's that way too.

    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    Oh dear Josh!

    Wonder who'll do the blog for Austria and if Jason will do another one for Turkey? I really liked his Courchevel one.
  16. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Angela and Josh seem to have an interesting relationship off the ice...I get the sense that Josh is rather shy, quiet, nerdy, and serious and Angela is more outgoing, and silly towards him, and he finds it all rather amusing.
  17. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    I think the results of 2011 U.S. Nationals shows that the USFSA will not hold up a skater. Abbott was the 2009 & 2010 US Champion and an Olympian; however, he was not held up by PCS. The USFSA had no problem sending Dornbush and Miner to 2011 Worlds based on their placement at Nationals.
  18. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Well, they didn't hold up Jeremy Abbott. I'm not convinced that's a general policy across the board.
  19. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    It's not Jeremy I worry about, and when he skates well Jeremy absolutely deserves huge marks. Not too worried about Johnny either because in the past he hasn't been given big favors by the USFS. My fear is more that Lysacek and Rippon get held up...and that gets me very scared because both their 3As are :scream: and I won't even get started about their "quads"....:slinkaway
  20. flipforsynchro

    flipforsynchro New Member

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    At least Lysacek is somewhat consistent with the 3A. Rippon on the other hand...
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    U.S. junior pair skater Matt Blackmer ‏tweeted this pic today:
    #werenotworthy @joshDfarris @agneszawadzki

    ETA: Here are Jason's quotes in this article about dealing with travel to and from international competitions:
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    LOL I wonder if Patrick's leaving has increased Josh's confidence levels. I would assume winning JW silver and missing out on the title by a fraction of a point also helped but when you think of it, Patrick probably sucked a lot of the air out of the rink, and obviously as World champion he's a big deal. But now that Josh is growing up, gaining confidence, all of a sudden handsome, and landing quads and 3a-3t like it's nothing, it's maybe like he's top dog, or one of them, at the rink. Kinda funny when you think about it. He seems so shy and nerdy off the ice.
  23. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Just wondering, what do you mean by "sucking the air out of the rink?" This is the second time today that I have seen reference to skaters "sucking the air out of a rink." Some Farris uber on another forum stated that Weir & Lysacek's return to competitive skating would "suck the air out of the arena until Sochi."
    Sylvia and (deleted member) like this.
  24. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I love that pic, it's hilarious and I think adequately describes most feelings about Josh's win in Lake Placid! :lol:

    Loved the article about travelling. Never done any jet-lag travelling but it must be hard when you have to turn around and compete not long after. Wonder what they do if their skates don't turn up? Express mail?

    Armin is the only other Senior man of note at that rink now isn't he? So Josh would definitely be one of the top dogs there.

    And I could imagine he got one heck of a confidence boost from the JW silver, the quad at Lake Placid, the gorgeous 3A-3T, and suddenly being talked about as definitely a Senior. Luckily, it would seem that Josh has his head screwed on.

    I hope this confidence boost shows in his skating. It seemed to make a difference at LP. Maybe this boost is the last piece of the puzzle and we'll see one heck of a season from him. I hope so!
  25. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Hm, well, for me, sucking the air out of the rink is a term used to describe any well known skater who sort of dominates the atmosphere at a rink (or it could be a training facility for elite athletes in any sport really) because they have accomplished so much, and everyone knows who they are and how good they are, etc. that it sort of results in all the other athletes walking on eggshells around this person so as to not to cause drama, and even if someone else at the training site is really, really good, they don't get paid much attention to and maybe don't have a lot of confidence because the focus is on said well-known, heavily decorated skater whose every action gets talked about and analyzed, and everyone is so busy keeping track of the one "star" that other stars could be emerging and it would sort of go unnoticed. Does that make sense? I get that's kind of a wordy, unclear explanation, but it's the best I can do.

    Also, Armin is new to Broadmoor, so even though he is really good and can do quads, I guess he maybe isn't as established there and is still seen as a newcomer. But I think it's definitely a good thing that another top US men's competitor is out in CO Springs now because I think (hope) it will help both men to push harder in their skating and try to achieve even more. A little friendly rivalry can sometimes lead to progress.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  26. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    I find your rationale perplexing, and indirectly implied that Josh's confidence and skills are highly dependent on another skater's presence. BTW, Patrick is still training in Colorado :p so you will be expecting Joshua's confidence to plummet? On the contrary, be it sports or academic, if you want to be the best, surround yourself with peers with similar qualities and skills. You learn from each other. You also go where you get the best training facilities and coaches. Josh has improved tremendously over the past year and is due very much to himself not others. If one does not have the innate talent, coaches can only do so much. Last but not least, sometimes too much attention may not be beneficial.;)
  27. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Not all skaters feel that an accomplished skater "sucks the life out of the rink." If you asked several of the younger skaters, they look up to the older, more accomplished skaters at their training rink. In fact, this is what Mirai Nagasu had to say about training for the 2010 Olympics with the 2009 world champion, Evan Lysacek:

    "Did I also mention that Evan is the best training buddy ever? No matter how tired he is, he pushes himself to do his programs, so he can do it in any kind of situation. Watching him train is so motivating for me...I try to follow his example by doing programs with the intensity he has, but somehow my attempts just don't match his....Thank you Evan for always being there to give me a piece of advice and motivating me to do my best!"

    http://www.figureskatersonline.com/mirainagasu/journal4.htm
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Patrick Chan (part-time?), Armin Mahbanoozadeh, Max Aaron, Brandon Mroz, Josh Farris, Alex Johnson, and Tim Koleto are the Senior men I know of who are currently training at the World Arena in Colorado Springs.

    ETA: Paul Parkinson of Italy, too! (I knew that but was looking at my list of U.S. men.) Thanks, seabm7.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  29. seabm7

    seabm7 Member

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    ^ And Paul Bonifacio Parkinson, too.
  30. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    I think Josh has always been cute. The shy nerd side of him significantly adds to his charm, IMO. :swoon: What an amazing talent and lovable guy. I'm always :cheer2: for him! :)
  31. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I don't doubt training with a decorated, highly-acclaimed skater is a good MOTIVATOR, Josh has even said himself that training with Patrick pushed him to work harder, I'm talking more about the attention and recognition other skaters receive (or rather don't receive) when a big-name trains at their rink and is the main focus.

    So basically, Josh has been growing into quite a good skater for some time now. But when Patrick was around, obviously he's the reigning world champ and even better, so in comparison, Josh doesn't seem that good, or maybe that's not the case and others do recognize his potential and just aren't that interested when he's landing things like 3a-3t and quads because Patrick is there and lands huge 3as and quad combos all the time. But now that Patrick's gone, it's maybe more noticeable to everyone else that, oh, Josh Farris is getting really good and paying more attention to him because of it.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  32. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    I totally "get" the comparison between Josh/Jason and Evan/Johnny thing. The way these careers are unfolding bears uncanny resemblances. Even from a personality standpoint, it is like a second coming of sorts. I know, not THE SAME. Just similar enough to make me think about the similarities, more so than just scratching my head/huh.
  33. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Except that Josh and Jason seem to actually be mature about the whole thing and aren't letting anything that happens on the ice get in the way of what they have off the ice. ;)

    (And they are each other's number one fans. :lol:)
  34. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is they actually aren't that similar. And personality wise I don't think so either. Jason isn't as dramatic or as much of a diva (male diva?) as Johnny, in fact he seems very down-to-earth, crunchy, and even a bit uninterested/out of the loop when it comes to the media aspects and commercialism of the sport, the kid doesn't even have a twitter for pete's sake! As for Josh and Evan, they both seem to be workhorses but that's hardly an anomaly for an elite athlete, and Evan always seemed pretty outgoing to me, as well as pretty metrosexual and interested in fashion and social and media events. So obviously some of that could be due to age and accomplishments but Josh seems like more of a reserved, mainstream, and even somewhat timid midwestern boy. As for their skating, I'm sure Evan would love to have a 3a and 4t as nice as Josh's and Johnny and Jason are both lyrical but with distinct styles. Josh and Evan are both long-legged, flexible, and good spinners but that's about it for me. And Jason and Johnny can handle similar pieces of music well but to me Jason's skating is more masculine and powerful than Johnny's, whose basics and stroking I always found a bit weak.
  35. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Not sold on Farris, he looked a bit heavy now or maybe that was just his costume, I am still not losing hope on Brown because once he has his 3A and quad , Farris wont be of no match for him anyways
  36. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Well Jason needs to start going for the 3axel or he will just end up as another Adam Rippon. A decent skater but not World champion material.
  37. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    The aim this summer was for him to get "heavy" - he wanted to put on some muscle weight. I think he looks fine, a bit more in proportion now compared to the skinny waif of last season. Hey, if it's helped him land the quad, I'm definitely not complaining.

    I think they are evenly matched. We'll see.

    I'm sure we'll see it this year. Jason knows what he has to do :)

    He pulled it out at Glacier Falls last year, he did two at Southport. He's obviously got it, they're just obviously not happy with it enough to put it in an international program.

    And if he doesn't land it I hope he's first in the queue to take jump lessons from Ilia...
  38. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Lol at whoever called Farris heavy, he's really thin! I'm always shocked when I see pictures of him in regular clothes because he's so slight in build. For some reason on the ice he looks sturdier, and quite tall as well even though he's apparently just 5'8", but really, if anything, he could stand to gain some weight. Anyways, Jason getting the 3a and quad solid will likely take some time, and I don't think he's artistically stronger than Joshua anyways, they are different, but I would say comparable, in terms of their artistry at this point. It would seem international judging panels would agree with this as well considering their PCS are always really comparable.

    Jason and Kori obviously have a special bond, but if the 3a isn't working well by Nationals, I think he should look into expanding his coaching team to include a jumps specialist or very technical coach.
  39. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    :blah: You're delusional. You make it sound as if Farris is a Kevin Van Der Perren, all jumps and nothing else. The way I see it, he is just as talented in the non jump components of skating as Brown is. Brown is the one clearly at a disadvantage at the moment. Without a 3Axel or a quad, he's going nowhere fast as a senior skater, which is a real shame because I really like both Josh and Jason. The World and Olympic team selection committee would never name a male skater to the US team without those big jumps though; he really needs to get those together.
  40. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    ITA. It seems to me a lot of people think the only reason that Josh can compete with Jason is because he has the big jumps, and that once Jason gets those jumps, he will blow Josh and everyone else out of the water. I'm not so sure. For one, I think Josh and Jason are pretty evenly matched in terms of artistry, jumps aside. And for another thing, I think improving artistry is something that can be achieved/improved much more quickly, easily, and readily compared to jumps like a 3a and 4t. Like I said before, Josh has been doing those jumps for years, and he only became consistent with the 3a in competition last season really, and only landed his first 4t in competition last week, so considering Jason is almost 18 and has never even tried a 3a, let alone cleanly land and rotate one not to mention a quad, in international competition is a bit worrisome.


    I know Jason's aiming for 2018, but it could take a large portion of the time between now and then for him to get comfortable and consistent with the 3a and hopefully a quad, if he can even manage to master those jumps at all, that his artistic development might take a back seat if he's serious about nailing those jumps in international competition. Farris OTOH already has the 3a consistent and is capable of a beautiful 4t in international competition as we saw last week, meaning he can afford to focus a lot on improving his artistry in the coming years, along with potentially adding a second quad to his arsenal, or working towards a 4t in the SP and 2 in the FS, which would just give him more of an edge. So looking toward the next quad, Jason may be playing catch up while other guys like Josh, among others, could surge ahead.