Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by missing, Sep 23, 2012.
YES. Some posters seem to have better business arguing there.
hey can we move this already, this arguments will get uglier
Angelskates, Glacier cat, unfortunately it was true. Perhaps those attacks were not reported in China but here are one of the articles which reports that at least four Japanese individuals were attacked in Shanghai:
Some other incidents in other regions were also reported.
No wonder JSF give their concern over the skaters' safety.
Anyway, I really hope this is over soon so skaters can compete without worrying about their safety or politics.
French didn't commit war crime to Chinese, and then get into a self-inflicted amnesia afterwards, IIRC.
Can you find me a non-bias source of the article, please?
Quite the opposite. I didn't know, and hadn't thought much about, the sponsors of the event UNTIL reading your post in this thread.
Has Russia decided if they will send KAWAGUCHI(& SMIRNOV) to COC or not?
Or is it not even an issue for Russia why NOT to send her?
If you are insinuating that the Japanese consulate is making up these stories, then I really don't know what to say to you.
I don't think they're making them up, but I think they have their own agenda and bias, the same as the Chinese reports.
Because someone whose location is "Beijing, China" is going to be so unbiased.
I don't think a respected broadsheet like the Yomiuri from a country with free press can be compared to media outlets in a country that doesn't.
CHINA BASHING going on in this thread?
I don't believe free press exists, I think all media has its bias and agendas, but I think China reporting on this issue and Japan reporting on this issue have particular bias. Japan has certain mis-reported some historical issues in the past (through text books, as you probably know), as has China.
misskarne, I don't believe I ever claimed to be non-bias. I don't have a "side" on the island issue - I don't know enough of the history, but I also have stated that I don't believe violence is ever the solution. In fact, given the history between these two countries, I don't think they'll ever have a good relationship, but I don't believe attacking individuals of any nationality is acceptable. I am not Chinese, but I do believe that western media tends to favour the non-Chinese "side" in most issues, and that some people are anti-China before looking at the issues from multiple sources; in general people don't believe the Chinese press merely because it's the Chinese press. I don't find the Chinese press more biased than any other press most of the time, but I always try and check multiple sources.
I think that people thinking Japanese skaters will be unsafe is an overreaction. The protests are over for starters, the majority of people don't know who they are, and those who do know they are, support skating.
Bloomberg: Audi Asked China Dealership to Remove Anti-Japan Banner
The banner at an Chinese Audi dealership reads, "Even if the whole of China is covered with tombs, [we] must kill all Japanese; even if no grass grows in China…."
There were some similarly appalling banners at the protests I saw
From what I read in papers, Japanese school in China was closed　and some Japanese nationals living in China were forced by protesters to write down on a piece of paper that the island belongs to China. Moreover, Japanese raced dogs (don't know how you call them) were killed.
Thus. if JSF decides not to send their skaters, I would understand. They might not be safe in the hotel or on their way to the rink.
It's sad when you know that the chinese government is actually the one encouraging their people to do all this. Punching and killing ain't protest, it's crime. And they should have send their athletes to Japan (was it badminton ?) because there is absolutely no danger in Japan, and hey! think about the ahtletes who've been training for years for the competitions.
Now, what should I do with my tickets ?
The Japanese school was only very briefly closed, it's open now. The protests have ended, everything was back to normal last weekend, even near the Japanese embassy (though I don't know if it's open, there are no longer any protests or road closures).
The Japanese have no love for the Chinese ratatouille, the feelings are mutual on both sides. IF the JSF choose not to send their skaters, it's probably because they want to send a statement, more than its because they actually believe their skaters will be unsafe. There's nothing wrong with that, but it will be politics, not safety. Which is sad for the skaters, and those who want to see the skaters.
Actually many Japanese are afraid of going to China. My friend's business trip scheduled in next month was cancelled.
Food safety in China was already in question even before this incident. Remember melamine-tainted milk? The frozen dumplings exported to Japan were contaminated with a pesticide. Now we fear for something worse.
An article about doping and meat products in China:
Chinese Athletes Unknowingly Go Meatless for 2012 Olympics
Can you provide a link to the stories?
One professional cycling team with a Japanese sponsor has pulled out of the Tour of Beijing. Other teams with Japanese sponsors are still planning to attend.
Angelskates, you have every right to believe whatever you want to believe, but actually it does not matter whether you believe the articles or not. The thing is those unfortunate incidents were widely reported in Japan and that was bad enough to make people seriously worry about skaters' safety.
Very sad situation, yes.
I don't know enough about the islands to say who they should belong to, but after having read The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang, I can understand China's current position. We are talking about fathers being forced to rape their daughters and sons their mothers, we're talking about babies being skewered like pieces of meat on barbecue sticks, we're talking about atrocities so heinous and unspeakable that they make the Nazis look almost humane in comparison. Reading the book, you'd think the extent of the crimes is exaggerated, but I have a Malaysian friend (an ethnic Chinese who's currently in the US) who reports that her grandfather's entire family was massacred and that he only survived because he fainted from being stabbed initially and his mother's body fell on top of him leading the Japanese to believe that they were all dead. Imagine the little boy's reaction when he finally came to...
I do think that the resentment about Japan's wartime past has been festering for a long while, and that has played a large part in why China has been reacting so vigorously to this island dispute. I don't see how healing can take place when there are segments in Japan who deny the atrocities outright and when such history is merely glossed over in Japanese schools, if at all. Contrast this to Germany's response to its wartime history, which if I'm not mistaken criminalizes official positions like Japan's.
bu isn't Kavaguti a Russian citizen ?
that the same as comparing to Mirai
Leaving the political issues aside cause I'm no expert in that matter, I would like to write something about the skating situation.
As we all know, Asada, Ando, Takahashi, Machida and Takahashi & Tran are assigned to compete in the Cup of China. If they don't attend that grand prix, how it will be? Will they be re-assigned to other event and the limit of competitors per discipline will be ignored? Or they will be left with just one grand prix and therefore their chances to qualify to grand prix final will be almost inexistent? Machida may not have many aspirations but the other japanese skaters do have them. If that's the case, I think it's bad for the sport cause the more competitive the better. Asada, Ando, Takahashi and T&T are all medalists from the world championships. Their names draw attention. Their presence makes the competition more interesting.
I hate to see sport being affected by politics... But off course that I understand that the security of the athletes is sacred and if Japan doesn't want them to go then we must respect that decision. I don't believe that anybody in China who's a figure skating fan would like anything bad to happen but we must remember that the athletes won't be just in the ice arena. They will have to pass through airport, hotel, transportation, etc.
This was my late father's account: "Truckloads of Chinese men were herded onto trucks never to be seen again. Girls cut their hair short, tied down their breasts and dressed like boys to avoid being raped or taken as comfort women. Heads of 'traitors' were hung on poles in the central market place for everyone to see as warning. The Chinese targetted in particular, had strong links to China ie. most likely first/second generation Chinese in Malaysia. "
My father and family were very very lucky. What IF part of my family were slaughtered? Would I be driving Japanese cars and loving Japanese food now? Honda, (up-market) Lexus and Toyota are very popular cars among Asians.
I can understand the concerns of the Japanese athletes. Let the government deal with the problems. If we mix sports and arts with politics, we will never learn to understand and appreciate each other.
I hope all of these tensions die down. Its such a very sad situation
It's obviously the heritage that matters here.
The mob (if there is one) is not going to bump into a Japanese at the airport or on the street, get out their bricks and then say, "oh wait, this Japanese girl represents US / Russia! Oops sorry please go".
Those who know they represent another coutnry are skating fans and are hopefully more sane.
She physically looks a lot more Japanese than Russian.
I spelled her KAWAGUCHI instead of KAVAGUTI because she used to be a Japanese citizen and that's what matters to them.
To clarify: Mirai claims to hold dual citizenship in the US and Japan. She is 19, and the cutoff age is 20 or 22. Accordingly, Mirai is a Japanese citizen and, if JSF has a concern, she should hear it out.
I hope this can be resolved before November, but it's looking more and more that instead of using common sense to resolve something, pride has kicked in and that in turn has enflamed into something beyond scary. As someone already said, China take one island and Japan take one island and enjoy the oil/gas/whatever you both equally reap from it.
That however would be common sense and God forbid that should ever come into play these days.
As for the Japanese skaters and any other skaters who are of Japanese descent, we're talking about the safety of human beings here who just happen to skate. Isn't their safety more important than anything else? Try telling someone who's a zealot and after any kind of Japanese person that Mirai or Yuka are not Japanese citizens and you'll be talking to a brick wall. We also know those kinds of people will do whatever they feel "right" to them in order to forward their "cause". There's far too much evidence of that from the Middle East and also in New York City sadly.
I feel awful this is even being talked about, but if there are legitimate concerns about the safety of Japanese athletes of any kind of sport going to China right now, then they should stay home. We've still got about a month and a half to go, so we can hope things will calm down between now and then, but this does need to be discussed in case it doesn't calm down and there's a Plan B in place for those athletes/Federation to have.
I really do hope things calm down. There's so much going on around the World right now that could have been resolved by simple respect, common sense and taking responsblity for actions of the past that it just out and out saddens me.
Separate names with a comma.