The irrepressible, exasperating Mirai Nagasu, part II

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by modern_muslimah, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Melissa

    Melissa Member

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    I don't think people quite understand the role of a sports psychologist. The majority of professional athletes and amateur athletes see sports psychologists. It doesn't mean they are crazy or have any problems, sports psychologists are there for the athletes to improve their performance. Sometimes, the psychologists are just as crucial to the success of the athlete as their coaches are. Athletes often see psychologists after getting hurt, losing the big game, or constant failure to be able to determine a cause and a cure. A sport psychologist would work WONDERS for Mirai. It seems her biggest problem is trying to please everybody but not quite knowing how, thus she gets lost in her thoughts.
     
  2. Subway

    Subway New Member

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    Well, nice it's so simple.

    There are so many things in a personality that can hold someone back besides not wanting it.
     
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  3. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Right.

    The impression I got was not that she was distracted, or unprepared, but that she was unhappy. Whether she was actually feeling that emotion, I don't know, but that's how it LOOKED to me. And that conveys to me that she didn't want to be performing that night. It MIGHT mean that she's no longer interested in skating but there's a difference between skating recreationally in shows and competing in stressful situations at an event like Nationals/Worlds/Olys.

    I don't know how she is feeling. I don't think any of us here do. Perhaps not even her coach does. Only she does. I can only look at her and draw my own conclusions from my own observations.

    ETA: all this talk about a sports psychologist- do we know for SURE that Nagasu HASN'T been seeing one? I see so many posts suggesting she see one, but...no way to know if she's already tried that and it wasn't working too well...
     
  4. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    obviously not, which is why her desire to train should come from herself and not be dependent on Evan, who finds it within himself, not sitting around waiting for Kwan to return. She shouldn't be perfectly content just doing laps like she's at a public session. Not if she wants to be among the worlds best.
     
  5. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I don't know, I've never seen her train outside of the practice sessions in San Jose and there she worked hard.
     
  6. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I also noticed Mirai picking at her nails just before she started her LP-I mentioned it right away as I was typing as I watched-my post at the time:
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=82321&page=36#708
    Mirai looks nervous/pensive. Picking on her nails.

    I'd never seen her do that before. It gave me a feeling of doom right away. :(

    :respec:

    :respec:
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  7. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Has there been any word from Team Nagasu since the ladies FS?
     
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Very good point. We, as fans, don't know.

    Finding the right sports psychologist who is effective for an individual skater can be as challenging as finding the right coach.
     
  9. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^In my post, I wasn't talking about just a sports psychologist, but a therapist that can help her with life's issues.

    That's correct - it's really difficult finding a good therapist, too.
     
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    ^^^ I know we fans like to discuss/speculate about what we perceive to be the skaters' problems and what might be holding them back from achieving good results, but that's just a bit too personal for me. YMMV of course.
     
  11. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Understood.

    But, Mirai has commented on personal matters publicly. It's natural that her fans / concerned people on skating boards would discuss them. I agree that it should be handled delicately just so you don't hurt someone so young further. That would be terrible.
     
  12. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    All i know is someone as talented as Mirai should not be done with their skating season this early.
     
  13. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

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    Well I think the style of Frank Carroll and team are not helping HER. It's obvious she need a coach and a team that will help her learn to relax before a performance. It could the programs, maybe she needs programs that allow her to relax instead being the "mode" of a ladies skater should skate to.
     
  14. Mirai4life

    Mirai4life New Member

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    Mirai needs a young, straight forward coach. Not to be rude or anything but i think Frank is a little too .... erg. It's hard to train someone who has problems like Mirai when you're that kind of coach.
     
  15. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    It's definitely not over for Mirai if she chooses to go on. Many young skaters touted as the "next big star" experience major hiccups in their careers (Miki Ando's implosion at the 2006 olympics stands out). And actually now the international judges are rewarding maturity a lot more, since so many top skaters (carolina, alissa, miki, akiko, joannie, etc) are all mid 20s.

    Sending positive thoughts for Mirai now though. I fear there's quite a long time before the next competition for her (unless she gets chosen for the World Team Trophy) and she might lose motivation :(
     
  16. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I've been wondering the same thing.

    Frank was great for Mirai leading up to her Olympic/World season but something has not been working since. Perhaps he's taken her as far as he can.

    Well put.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again-I'm not giving up on Mirai. She's just a teenager for Pete's sake. If she is still motivated and loving it she can turn this slump completely around.

    I love that many more mature skaters are staying in well into their 20's. This was unheard of even into the '90's early '00s. Skaters like Maria Butyrskaya were the rare exception. Now it's becoming more commonplace and I like that. :cool:
     
  17. winterone

    winterone Banned Member

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    I watched her at Nationals, I don't think she is in shape. She looked a little big and she really didn't have the stamana at the end of her program. The spins looked good, no pizaz in the program. Kinda Flatt....oh sorry...flat.
     
  18. Subway

    Subway New Member

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    I don't know about not in shape - she looks like she's had a growth spurt and added a lot of muscle. And about a sports psychiatrist -it's the way a lot of you have mentioned that it's pretty hard to find one that works. I'm not disparaging therapy, but sometimes what an introspective emotional person needs is something in the other direction. Be physical instead of cerebral. Some way to learn how to think less, not more, and of course skip the part where you try to think a lot about how you're not supposed to think a lot.

    One idea - change choreographers. Normally I don't think that's too important but sometimes a different dynamic gets your brain out of the groove, takes you out of your own head. I've seen the right program flip a switch in a skater because they can't go on their usual auto pilot. A program that builds in momentum and helps her out. I like Lori Nichol and haven't analyzed this a whole lot, but her programs don't really fit Mirai. They don't ignite anything in her.

    Already I can tell that I'm in the rut a lot of fans get with favorites like this. Try this, try that. I should just resign myself now and save myself the frustration.
     
  19. Maximillian

    Maximillian You can't unfry things.

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    No, she's not in shape. Frank knew that and Mirai knew that and it showed in her performance. I love her dearly, she's really the sole reason I keep watching the ladies these days, but she really doesn't seem like she likes skating. Maybe she does, I hope she does, but if she doesn't I hope she finds something she likes, and wants to do and does it.

    Because really as far as I'm concerned she's had a pretty good career: a national title, 4th at Olympics, a top ten finish at Worlds. If that's all she's supposed to achieve than that's all she's supposed to achieve.

    I don't necessarily buy the argument that she hasn't lived up to her potential, because outside of extenuating circumstances ala Monica Seles or Nancy Kerrigan, an athlete who has the freedom to train as much or as little as they choose achieves their potential regardless of the result. Potential is more than just a physical thing, it's mental as well and she just might have not had the motivation, desire etc. to do more than she's done. And that's fine with me.
     
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  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai was unlucky in a sense to peak in Vancouver with those performances. She would have won most Olympics and Worlds with those performances but the competition level was just insane. On the other hand she always gave those performances on the Worlds biggest stage and people will always remember how brilliant she could be, despite her 4th place finish, so maybe not so bad after all.
     
  21. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Mirai was not in prime shape. I don't know where some saw muscle, she looked rather soft to me. As soon as she took the ice, I told my husband, "she isn't going to do well, look at her face" which led to a small discussion of him saying "judges shouldn't judge by a skater's facial expression" and me trying to explain that I meant she looked out of it, like she'd like to be anywhere else but on the ice. I remember a similar face on Caroline Zhang in 2010 (and good grief, what a difference this year, her smiles lit up the arena, her emotion in both programs was heartfelt).

    I think the thing that sticks in my head is an article (Phil Hersh, I think) that came out just before the 2010 Nationals where Mirai was asked to describe herself and she said "Talented, but LAZY" without hesitation. While we claim Frank is the wrong coach, she has the wrong program, she needs a sport psychologist, etc. a prime factor in the lack of Mirai's success is her "I'd rather be at the beach" mentality. And if she can't bring herself to work hard, she isn't going to succeed. She can't seem to put two and two together that talent still requires WORK. Having the ultimate workhorse, Evan, around in 2010, inspired her, and the results were very different. Now, there are other factors: an idiotic commute (hello, Mrs. Nagasu, if you don't "feel" like driving, then get someone else to take her!!!), way too much physical and now seemingly emotional distance between her and Frank, less than stellar music and style choices. A psychologist will be beneficial to help get her through the barriers she has put up for herself psychologically. But the ultimate responsibility and issue lies with Mirai. If she wants this, she has to practice and tough it out and work for it. If she's not willing to do that, then call it a day, and go out and find out what else she'd like to do and be.

    Thinking of the poster's tagline of "Suck it, Zhang, and I wear pink raincoat material" from 2008 Nationals. Today the tagline could be "Back 'atcha, Nagasu. I practice and WORK HARD!!!" Not trying to be nasty, just making a point. (And for the record, I'm much more of a Mirai fan than a Caroline fan). Caroline has a found a maturity than seems to be escaping Mirai. :(
     
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  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    To me Mirai is in shape by normal people standards but not in the fighting shape she needs to be if she wants to get to the top of the skating world. She looks quite different from how she did at the 2010 Olympics, put on a significant amount of weight. Some of that is growing into her adult frame and she may have gained some muscle, but it's not all muscle. Caroline now has a sturdier build for a skater but she looked to be in better shape than Mirai, even if Mirai is a "thinner" girl of the two. Idk. All those hours sitting in the car aren't helping Mirai's skating or fitness level. She needs to figure out a better training situation so that she can put those hours she currently spends sitting in the car to good use be it to work out, skate more, see a psychologist (sports or otherwise), etc. It's clear her current situation is not working out very well for her...
     
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Hitting such a devastating career low (over the course of the past 2 seasons) must've finally motivated Zhang. She chacked her petulance and obstinance and got to work. She also hopscotched through a couple of coaches 'til she found the right one.

    Nagasu has not yet fallen as far as Zhang at her worst. Will that be what it takes?
     
  24. mysticchic

    mysticchic Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting how sensitive and caring people are being towards Mirai in this thread, versus many of the things written in various Rachael Flatt threads. There are far fewer folks being high-minded and heroic, worried about getting too personal about Rachael. Perhaps that is a compliment; I guess they figure Flatt is tough and smart enough to take the abuse.
     
  25. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ^ Isn't it? My goodness.
     
  26. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Yazmeen,

    Entire post:
    :respec:
     
  27. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    People grow at different rates (and at different times), too. Look how far Zhang fell before finally doing something significant to reverse the trend. I even remember there being similar discussion on Zhang around 2010 (e.g. whether she really wants it, etc.). If Nagasu wants it, she'll find a way back up...but sometimes things have to get worse before they get better, if you know what I mean.
     
  28. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    It may have to do with the potential of both ladies. Mirai is a huge natural talented the expectations are high. Also, as far as we know, Mirai didn't engage in dishonest behavior. However, Yazmeen's post, while probably right and on point, is not exactly handling Mirai with kid gloves. One thing Yazmeen is right about is that Mirai did look softer than other fit ladies like Agnes or Ashley.

    As to Rachael being tough and smart--yes she is and then some, but why would she have to take this abuse? Why would she HAVE to read FSU? Or Mirai for that matter.
     
  29. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree with Ice Alisa. I think the difference is that Mirai is INSANELY naturally talented, and Rachael is a more workmanlike skater who relied on jumps for big scores (previously). Mirai has so much more in her arsenal, she can mezmorize an audience when she's on.

    And it wasn't my intent to handle Mirai with kid gloves. A lot of her problems are self-inflicted, and her "laziness" is the biggest one and is killing her chances.
     
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  30. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Funny how some of the people now agreeing with Yazmeen were saying just a few posts back that Mirai was absolutely fit and in good shape, so clearly Mirai wasn't suffering from motivation issues or lacking any work ethic--basically the exact opposite of what Yazmeen posted :lol:.