The irrepressible, exasperating Mirai Nagasu, part II

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by modern_muslimah, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I'm over Mirai. Id rather cheer for skaters that appear to want to be skating. None and I mean none of her skating was inspirational this week or this season in general. I wish her goodluck in whatever she does next, if that is working in the family shop or winning an olympic medal, but I know for one thing. I wont really care either way unless she does a complete 180.
     
  2. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    isn't she going to UC Irvine next year?
     
  3. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom(skating-wise) to put things into perspective. It allows you to take a step back and look at things in a different light. Ashley, Caroline, Carolina and Alissa have all been there and have obviously grown from their experiences. Maybe Mirai can do the same.
     
  4. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Jeez how many times does mirai need to hit rock bottom and rebound only to bottom out all over again before she learns these lessons? After she imploded at 2009 nats not even coming close to defending her title or making the world team, she made major changes, new coach etc.. And rebound to finish an impressive 4th in Vancouver. If she didn't learn anything from that, she's a lost cause.
     
  5. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I hate speculating about this stuff, and please don't hate on me for this, but I've wondered for a while now if maybe Mirai has ADD or some other logical, treatable explanation for her distractedness.
     
  6. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    How many times did Alissa turn in one bombed skate after another before finding some semblance of consistency(sketchy at that)? Ditto Carolina Kostner. Sorry but life isn't always simple. Sometimes growth takes time.
     
  7. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Does the above sound like someone not capable of focusing?

    I think some are missing the obvious--when someone is really distracted, it's generally because they aren't terribly into whatever they happen to be doing at the moment.

    This really isn't a mystery IMO--Frank has said she doesn't train diligently, she says over and over she'd rather be at the beach or watching reality tv than skating, she says she's not prepared for competitions, she says she isn't internally motivated and that Evan is not only more motivated than her, but in far better physical shape despite not competing anymore, and her skating has been utterly devoid of effort and enthusiasm for this season and much of last season.

    When she wanted something, she worked hard for it--competing in Vancouver. But there's no indication she has wanted to continue skating after that. So she keeps phoning in programs.

    Now, she could change her mind down the road--definitely possible. But I don't think there's anything going on but the obvious here--she just isn't into skating anymore. No ADD, no deep, dark family troubles. She just ain't into it.

    It is what it is.
     
  8. Subway

    Subway New Member

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    Maybe it's more about what rfisher says about the work ethic. That's not a diss because a lot of figure skaters struggle with the kind of focus and dedication it takes, but still love the actual skating. That's how the world ends up with a lot of talented, promising figure skaters whose talent takes them pretty far but not as far as talent paired with the work it takes. It's really torture to be fans of a skater like that because they keep you hoping. If only they weren't into figure skating, they'd leave the sport for something else. Most of them love figure skating but the rest of it is love/hate. They're always making fresh starts and then the same things keep happening. A lot of them go pretty far in the sport anyway. I won't mention names besides possibly Mirai, just because some fans really don't like the idea of this. They're more comfortable with another explanation, like nerves or confidence.
     
  9. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    ^very well said.

    I actually think Mirai wants to win as much as anyone else. It's just that she fears failure more than other people do, so she's had to develop defense mechanisms to cope. All that pre-competition talk to lower expectations is probably just her way to lessen the pressure that she puts on herself to win.
     
  10. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    IA. I don't understand people saying "she doesn't want to win". Of course she wants to win. Who doesn't? I do think, however, she has low expectations of herself. I think the low expectations might be causing the other issues whatever they are.

    The one thing I will give Ashley is that she always has high expectations of herself and it drives her to try and do better. She isn't as naturally talented as some other US ladies but she always expects to be the best. Mirai doesn't and that's a shame.
     
  11. bek

    bek Guest

    I disagree here. Of course Nagasu wants to win, but a will to win is shown by actions. Its shown by giving everything to a program/performance/not giving up. Its also shown digging in and putting the hard work in training. She may want it, but does she want it as much as Michelle did-No.
     
  12. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    So it pretty much comes down to this... Mirai needs to fix something in her mind (although there is no consensus), so she should go work with sports psychologist.
     
  13. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    She should have made two World teams imo. I'll always believe she should have gone to Worlds over Flatt. And I still have faith in Mirai-IF she wants it, and that's a big if I still say she can turn it around. Sochi is 2 years away and it's not over til it's over.
     
  14. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Again-I disagree. Paul Wylie wasn't even considered worthy by some to be on the '92 Olympic team-remember the reporter who asked him 'what are you doing here? And for once in his career he shown-and at the most important time. It happened for Mirai at her Olympics but against very tough competition from the 3 who placed above her. It could happen for her again and perhaps next time she'll win.

    The beach thing again-most athletes I am sure would rather go to the beach than train. I don't think Mirai was sitting around at the beach. She was ROCKING the practices per reports. As I said to the other poster there is still time for Mirai to turn this around-if she wants to. I'm not giving up on her. If she doesn't make the Sochi team and still wants to skate I'm going to be there rooting her on. If she decides at some point that skating isn't for her I will be sad but I will support her decision.
     
  15. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    ^^^
    THIS!

    I love Frank but more and more I am starting to feel that maybe he's taken Mirai as far as he can. Charlene Wong took Mirai as far as she could. Athletes have been known to change coaches until they find the right fit-as has happened for Ashley Wagner. If Mirai still wants it-first she's got to grow up and take control of her life and her training schedule. I completely agree that she needs to work with a sports psychologist. And I think RA would work great for Mirai-and hopefully find a choreographer that can bring out Mirai's sparkle again. Her PCS scores have been on a downward spiral only she and Frank can't seem to understand why. I agree with the poster who said in another thread that Mirai is not Michelle Kwan but sometimes Frank seems to think so. She can not pull off choreo like "Spartacus". And the music is all wrong for her.
     
  16. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    There wasn't much to that Spartacus program to begin with. Lori misfired with this one.
     
  17. maharbabackward

    maharbabackward New Member

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    I think Mirai definitely needs a sports psychologist. Remember when she beat Caroline Zhang who was hailed as the next big thing? She was a non-entity before that nationals and she goes and wins it. At Junior Worlds, when she has a bit more expectation she doesn't do as well as places second. She competes in the JGP while Zhang competes in Senior. At nationals, she is forgotten and completely destroys the competition in the SP landing a triple-triple. In the free, she falls on a double axel but still skates a seven triple program but definitely more tentative and cautious than the great SP. She has pressure again, and lands in third at the JW. Next year was when she had a big growth spurt and injuries, sso I won't discuss that. But the next year, she comes to nationals with less pressure (Flatt and Cohen were the ones people had their eye on) and makes the team. At the Olympics, there is no expectation and she skates two clean programs and lands in fourth. At worlds, she skates another inspired SP and is first. Feeling the pressure, she buckles and doesn't even medal. And since then, there has been an expectation for her to deliver because she has EVERYTHING aside from perhaps a true outside edge on her lutz.. she skates with speed, she has wonderful posture, great extension, difficult and beautiful spins, great musicality (when she wants to perform and not skating tentatively) and she can do triple-triples and is practicing triple axles (albeit not landing it fully turned as of yet). She needs a shrink badly.. or she needs to skate as if there is no pressure. If she is skating cleanly in practices, I don't think she's not not practicing. And she would be fired by FC is she didn't have at least a bit of discipline methinks. It is totally in the head, she expects a lot for her because she'd be an idiot not to realize how bloody talented she is. Everyone sees that. Now she needs to be able to calm her nerves and do it when it counts..
     
  18. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    This is true. That program is just awful, the worst Mirai has ever done.

    This, in a nutshell, is what I keep saying over and over again.

    Maybe. I hope so. If people want to write Nagasu off, are 'over her' whatever. I'll still be there rooting for her until she figures out what it is she wants to do. If Mirai re-dedicates herself to her sport and really turns it around I'll be the happiest fan in the world. If she decides to retire I'll be sad but I'll still wish her all the best life can offer her.

    Sorry but I find it difficult to write off an 18 year old with loads of talen and many young years ahead of her as a 'lost cause'. :rolleyes:

    Well put. Some seem to think one only gets to hit rock-bottom once in their lives and then they don't deserve any more chances. Sorry-not me. I think this is the lowest point of Mirai's career and I hope she re-groups. I'm going to keep on believing.

    Yep. And I hope Mirai considers seeing one (if she isn't already).

    So the majority seem to agree-she needs to really WANT it, if not she should quit, if she does want it, she needs to seek out a sports psychologist.

    Btw, on the lutz, it really bugs me that she hasn't seemed to work much on this. Someone with such good basics overall should have a clean outside edge on that lutz by now. Or perhaps it's easier said than done? Could a coach like Raphael help her improve on this?
     
  19. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Um, no. I don't think there's anything wrong with her mind. If someone isn't into skating for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that and no need to see a psychologist.

    I do have to say all this pathologizing of Mirai (eg. she has issues! she needs a psychologist! she's just pretending to want to do other things more than skating to set expectations low!) is more a projection of what some fans desperately hope than reflective of any reality.

    And I should say, Mirai is by far my favorite US skater (and really fav skater next to Mao Asada). But to me it's pretty clear her heart isn't into skating anymore. Some things just are what they are.

    :sigh:
     
  20. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    ANY program is going to look terrible if the skater performs it with a blank look on her face from start to finish. Mirai had zero involvement with the music---her movements were robotic, and never reflected the ebb and flow of what is a highly dramatic and emotional piece.
     
  21. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    What a contrast to how each responded by their breakthrough of coming 4th in a major event. Kwan used it to light a fire under her ass and make sure there was no way she was ever going to land 7 triples and be placed off the podium at a major event again. Then next year as a completely transformed skater she rips the World title away from the defending Champion in a historic duel despite the defending Champion skating her very best. Nagasu seemed to coast and rest on her laurels at that point, and is now dropping into the pack in the U.S.
     
  22. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Frankie might "fire" another pupil.
     
  23. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    I remember someone here (I forget who) had a sig line that went: "Suck it, Zhang. I rule. And I WEAR PINK RAINCOAT MATERIAL."

    Still one of the best sig lines ever. :rofl:
     
  24. The Fly On The Wall

    The Fly On The Wall Active Member

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    Gee, I dunno....maybe she's been reading here???
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    If people are hard on here its in someways because they do believe in the girl's talent. I actually don't want Mirai to retire; I think she's incredibly talented and would love to see her get it together. But I'm also a bit tired of the excuses. A good example would be when she got off the ice she told Frank; I think I was concentrating to much on my facial expressions. Well the thing is I watched that skate; and that was pretty expressionless.

    The thing is though I'd like to see her be happy. If skating isn't what she wants to do right now-its okay. I guess I'm not holding my breath.
     
  26. The Fly On The Wall

    The Fly On The Wall Active Member

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    Far be it from me to even pretend to read her mind, but....I agree with whoever posted that she has such a fear of failure, she downplays her expectations. I compete in another sport and practice wonderfully....but the second it's showtime, I freeze, hold back, make stupid mistakes, etc., etc. It's not that I don't want it or that I'm not motivated. I work harder and longer than anyone on my team. But with several years' history of this pattern, it's always at the back of my mind that it's going to happen again. If this is what Mirai is experiencing, I wouldn't be surprised. I bet we'll never know though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  27. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    The more I think about it, I think she's afraid to go back to worlds because of what happened last time she was there (1st to 7th). The more time that passes, the worse it gets.
     
  28. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    She looked so bored skating at Nationals, like she was doing a practice runthrough. She didnt fight for anything. What the heck was her comment she was concentrating too much on facial expressions. She had the expression of a zombie her whole program.

    It is hard to believe she was a good long program away from becoming World Champion only 2 years ago. That seems like an enternity ago when you look at her now.
     
  29. bek

    bek Guest

    Yes but Mirai herself and her coaches have said she has motivation issues. Its not like people are pulling it from air. Maybe she was well trained here, but thats not every case.
     
  30. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    As mentioned, I've watched her in practices and thought she looked very well trained and secure in everything. So you are probably right--the motivation and the work ethic are not the issue. Something else is, not sure what. She was looking very fit and ready in practice although there was no joy in her skating at any point.