Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by modern_muslimah, Jan 29, 2012.
it is interesting when skaters show some personality. bit mean though.
This is an example of why we all need to careful about we send out there in cyber-space. Messages get misconstrued all of the time. I, personally, this is all being blown out of proportion. However, when you are on Twitter, Facebook, (and even this message board) etc. you open yourself up to all kinds of comments, criticism, etc. Hopefully, Mirai will keep that in mind when she makes her posts.
She should be careful about what she says.
She reminds me a bit of some other 18 to 20 year old skaters who say what is on their mind without thinking about the consequences. People either find it refreshingly honest, rude, condescending or ....
Twitter is a terrible thing IMHO. All it does is expose to the world our worst manners. Of course, teenagers now (lord I feel old!) in general, don't seem to have the same concerns with how the world at large sees them. I think that is probably both a good and a bad thing.
Of course, a lot of people think Johnny's adorable when he snipes at other skaters. No wonder Mirai thinks she can get away with it. . . .
We aren't all this way. I don't even know how to use twitter and I DO care about my image.
I don't know about that. Johnny's gotten criticism for his remarks, too. Plus, his comments are often about more trivial things, which is different from belittling the ability of skaters who don't have the same privileges the US skaters have.
Do you realize that the ISU is an umbrella organization made up of member federations from around the world? It isn't like the professional tennis players' associations, which is made up of individual sports professionals and where tournaments commonly have very large contingents from some countries (like Russia at the moment) and none from others.
Why shouldn't those federations be able to send their best athletes to the championship events? That's the way it's done in many other individual sports that are organized around national federations. Or do you think figure skating is in any way special in this regard.
ETA: Systematically excluding smaller federations from championships might well cause the IOC to re-consider including figure skating in the Olympics. Among the criteria for a sport's inclusion in the Olympics is the number of countries with member federations. I don't know if there's any specific consideration given to whether the federations can freely send at least one participant to the championship events, but it very well might be if the need arose.
I realize that. That is why I said "in general." My teenager isn't that why either. Some of her friends, on the other hand, don't seem to care one bit about what people think of them. I suspect it has always been that way, but now, with the advent of social networking sites, it is easier to make an a$$ of yourself in front of the whole world. Kind of a hard lesson for someone like Mirai to learn.
Oh, yes, I know those types. Some of them have really embarrassed themselves, big-time.
I think most realize the ISU championships have entrants from many federations, large and small. What many don't like is having a so called championship where many of the top contenders can't participate, while many skaters with lesser skills will participate. Neither you nor I want to exclude entrants from smaller federations with few facilities. But to have a championship with meaning, skaters in the top 25 seasons best list should all be participating. We get around that in part by sending some to junior worlds. But there are still quite a number in the top 25 who won't qualify for junior or senior worlds. I note Ms Zhang of the US is currently 9th in the season's best list, but she won't be in Nice. Ms Nagasu is 10th on the SB list, and was 3rd on the list last year, but won't be at world's either year. It only diminishes a so called championship when skaters in the top 10 cannot compete. I note that Russia currently has 8 in the top 25, the US 6 and Japan 5. Some will be at junior worlds and some will sit home. If you have people in the top 10 who are not eligible, and are sitting home, then your so called championship isn't really a championship. That also is a reason it is much easier to find tennis on TV, and hard to find skating.
If you want a World Championships structured like that, you need to have a governing body organized by the athletes themselves. Otherwise, you're expect a bunch of national federations to sit back while their own skaters get shunted aside. For Ladies' Singles, that means mostly teenaged girls, almost none of whom would ever be able to finance their own touring and training costs, let alone the organization's overhead, that would be involved in something like this.
Leaving aside the Junior/Senior issue, the Top 25 of the current Ladies' Season's Best List includes eight Russians, six Americans, five Japanese, two Chinese, an Italian, a Finn, a Georgian, and a Swede. If you set up a World Championship like that this season, it would effectively mean that the top skaters from Canada (currently 33rd on the list), France (38th), and South Korea (41st) -- all of which are significant markets for figure skating -- would have no shot of making the Free Skate! Is that really what you want? And do you really expect Canadians, French, and South Koreans to watch a Free Skate when they have no countrywomen to root for?
Every country who is apart of the ISU has the right to send skaters. It encourages skaters from "developing skating countries" to improve. Someone has to come last. Maybe with some time, these 90 point scorers WILL improve. They aren't going to improve staying home and skating around their home rink with other less than fantastic skaters.
Yes I do! Eddie the Eagle!
It is unfortunate when skaters like Mirai are left home-but she had her chance, a very good chance to make her country's team and didn't. Athletes from developing countries deserve a chance too. They may not have the history such as in the U.S. but they've got to start somewhere.
Yes, I would like a championship like that, but a world championship with the best skaters is clearly too extreme for the ISU and member Federations. Then are you saying no adjustment could be made to make the Worlds a better championship with more of the better skaters eligible. Suppose the age rule remains in effect, and the junior /senior difference stays. Suppose the country cap was increased from 3 to 5 for individual countries, as long as the skaters were in the 25 SB list. Would it really ruin the championships if there were 5 Russians, 5 Americans and 5 Japanese? I think it would be a much more exciting event. The number qualifying for the SP, and free skate could be increased to accomidate those entrants qualifying from the SB list, so Canada, France and Korea would not be slighted. It would be a much better event for spectators, better for TV, and a true World Championship.
Ruin it? Probably not.
However, the effect would still be to push skaters from other federations farther down the placements and keep them out of the Free Skate. This in turn would probably alienate audiences from other countries other and discourage young people there from taking up the sport. We can see both of these trends happening to tennis in the United States, for example.
I think keeping skaters like the third best U.S. lady and the fourth and fifth best Japanese men out of this year's Worlds, while unfortunate, is a small price to pay for keeping the sport as international as it is.
True. Because what you are describing is Pro Skating, which the ISU killed. I'm glad that the ISU sticks to it's core root values and continues to have open competitions. I'm frankly troubled by all of this snarking on 4cc skaters who quite frankly aren't even going to worlds. What next, is Nelbelhorn to be cancelled because God forbid the viewing public be subjected to such "not good enough for me!" skating?
If we added around 6 or7 skaters from the SB list, and increased the FS entrants from 24 to 30, it would have minimal effect on the participation of other federations in the FS.
Some of the lesser skaters have competed in JGPs and were on the Seasons Best list prior to 4CC. Many of them are American or Canadian skaters who couldn't make it to their respective Nationals and chose to skate for their parents' country of origin. I don't have a problem with that, as they competed for their berths on the JGP and / or 4CC team and won their places fairly.
Not really. Those six or seven (in Ladies, presumably American, Russian, and Japanese) skaters would take up the six additional spots in the Free Skate and, because also make it much harder for other federations (like Canada, China, Finland, France, Italy, and Sweden) to gain a second (or third) spot. After that, the trend would likely be for those federations to back one skater in each discipline at the expense of their second, third, fourth, and fifth best skaters (who would at times include some very good skaters along the lines of Kiira Korpi, Valentina Marchei, and Cynthia Phaneuf). Again, it means weakening the strength of the sport internationally.
ETA: Assuming that under your proposed system there would still be a Preliminary Round, there would be yet more repercussions, namely more skaters' never making it to the Short Program. So, not only might there be a Ladies' Free Skate without any Canadian, French, or South Korean skaters, there might be a Ladies' Short Program like that too!
There were plenty of ladies at Euros of the same caliber. Unless you're from a country like the US, Japan, Russia, and a handful of other countries, the qualifying standards for competitions like 4CC and Euros are generally MUCH lower. Or sometimes you'll see a country with one very talented entrant (Georgia, Italy, etc) that is not representative of the skating of said nation at all. If Mirai is so bitter she should find a way to switch representation...
Lol to where? Japan? I'm pretty sure she's of Japanese descent... idt that'd work out so great...
If Mirai is so bitter perhaps she should look at her training and preparation for Nationals, set some clear goals for next year, and then work towards making sure she is on the 4CC's team in 2013. Mirai only has herself to blame for not being on that team. I realize she is young, but she is not too young to be taking responsibility for her own training and her own results.
I don't know why mirai gets a free pass from so many people. She should not have posted that tweet. Would that be acceptable from Michelle? Sasha? Even Caroline or Rachel? i don't think so.
Since 13th finish Ricky was selected to go to 4CC over 4th finish Armin, perhaps Mirai thinks she should have been selected over 4th finish Caroline...??
Regardless, I thought her original comment was rude and bad taste especially she knows some of those lower ranked skaters who train Southern California area.
Instead of finding innumerable ways why things cannot be improved for figure skating fans, why not devote some thought to ways where more top skaters can be in the so called "World Championships".
I am considering spending the !,300+ Canadian dollars to attend only one event, the ladies singles, in 2013. By another genius marketing tool, to attend practices, I must buy all session tickets, even if I don't want to attend pairs or dance. For this significant expenditure, I would expect to see, at a "World Championship," all the best skaters in the world. I want to see the Zhangs and Nagasus' if they are in the SB 25. I want to see the age eligible Russian wonderbabies if they are in the top 25, but I know I will see only half at most. I also enjoy the skaters from France, Canada, and Korea, but my primary interest is the top 25. By any critical analysis, attending worlds would be a foolish expendidture. Not only is it a lot of money, but I would not be getting what I want to see. Many sports showcase and market their top atheletes, not do everything in their power to insure the major championship of the sport will only have maybe half of the top competitors.
I think at least half a dozen people have already criticised her behavior in this thread. If you want to pile on, go ahead. I won't.
Come on people need to give Mirai a break. She is of the Social media generation. Have we all not said something we deeply regret when we were 18 and fickle minded? It is all part of the growing up process and I doubt she received proper media training yet.
I am sure she learnt from her mistakes, and yes she is CLEARLY in the wrong and I bet her management (mum) gave her bl**dy hell already.
Whats with the training situation? Is she coming back next year and still with Frank?
How did the U.S. develop its strength in Ice Dance? How did China develop its strength in Pairs? What has Elvis Stojko been doing in Mexico? And what are people like Albena Denkova and the Siudeks trying to do in their own countries?
You build more rinks and bring in (or develop) coaches to develop young talent, and, sometimes, you send them abroad to hone their skills.
Maybe Marai Nagasu (whom I like, BTW, even if she is not without her faults) would like to go work somewhere like South Africa or Singapore so that one day that country's representatives will be in the medal hunt at Four Continents. It would be better than belittling their accomplishments.
Mirai has had an agent (IMG) since she burst on the scene in 07. There is extensive media training at Champs Camp. You learn early on at home that belittling someone, especially in public, is wrong. I love Mirai, she has more natural talent than the rest of the American ladies put together, but something is amiss..Her "death by blade" almost seems intentional..I was more than shocked that she would put that on twitter.
Separate names with a comma.