The future of Evora/Ladwig

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by johndockley92, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    With their 3rd place finish and jump consistency problems all season I wonder what the future holds for this team. I wonder if they will retire before 2014 or plan on attempting to make the olympic team. Thoughts?
     
  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    In another thread, it was posted that they talked about training until Sochi in their post-Nats interview [I hope I'm remembering that correctly]. I hope so. They need to go out on a high(er) note.
     
  3. Leeedward

    Leeedward New Member

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    They are beautiful skaters in every way--- but jump inconsistency has plagued them for years. If they make their jumps they score well-- as they should. But alas, skating life is plagued with disappointments if the jumps aren't there-- and with this couple, failure in this aspect comes all too frequently. Even so, I wish them well.
     
  4. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    While I hope that they continue for another year at least to end their career on a better note, but the reality is they have been doing this together for ten years and another year of training is a huge commitment. Mark has a family and Amanda has a degree, so they have post-skating options. The thing about them is that Amanda can land those jumps. I have seen her do them numerous times in practice. It feels like she has just lost confidence in the jumps during competition. Anyhow, I feel like they will give at least one more year. They are already half way through the quad, but best of luck to them regardless of their decision. They just have to do what's best for both of them.
    And it's no shame having five national medals and being Olympians:) They will be missed if they retire.
     
  5. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    This!
     
  6. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I've loved Evora/ Ladwig for many years. I did not find them as compelling to watch this season, but their lifts as always remain consistent, difficult and gorgeous. I don't know if it was discussed in other threads, but I thought Bezic's comment that Amanda was just "too nice" as being a reason why she struggled with her jumps was :confused: :rolleyes: :blah: Amanda would never have gotten this far in skating if she did not have talent, drive and athletic toughness. There may be a psychological, physical or mechanical limitation that can be overcome. But yes, they are an older team which makes things more difficult overall. I do wish E/L all the best no matter what they decide. Niceness has nothing to do with not being able to land a jump.

    Can't stand listening to Bezic/ Hamilton crew anymore. Not even Terry G can help their awful commentating.

    Johnny's excellent commentary for icenetwork during the men's competition, to me further highlights the weaknesses of NBC's entrenched Scott and Sandra.
     
  7. Sit_spin

    Sit_spin New Member

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    This. You can be either nice or mean, and still have problems with jumps.

    I do hope they stick around (I'm a fan), but I especially hope they do what's best for them.
     
  8. legjumper

    legjumper Active Member

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    I think that Evora & Ladwig should stick around as long as they want, as long as they're loving what they're doing and feel they have more to give to the sport. However, I think that realistically, if they hope to go to Sochi, they should be rooting for Denney/Coughlin and Marley/Brubaker to finish 6th and 7th at 2013 Worlds to qualify three teams for the Olympics. (Hey, it could happen....)
     
  9. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    A month ago I never would have even thought this a remote possibility, but when Skate Canada basically ditched Moore-Towers/Moscovitch for one poor showing all season at Nationals in favor of the unseasoned Dube/Wolfe, the landscape certainly changed for the Canadian pairs World team. I still think 4CC was a fluke for Duhamel/Radford though; any other competition they have easily finished ahead of both American teams and their performances at Canadian Nationals, particularly the LP, could easily have them top 5, maybe even bronze contenders at Worlds. Kirsten and Dylan normally could easily finish ahead of both American teams too. I certainly could not picture either of the American teams finishing top 5 in the World right now though, unless some really :confused: bizarre things were to happen and they were to skate phenomenal personal bests.
     
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Most of what you say is true. But, last year Y/C beat D/R in the final standings at Worlds. I realize that Y/C and D/C are 2 different teams but it was the same situation last season where the CAN teams were ranked ahead of Y/C through til '11 4CC's. It was probable that D/R or MT/M would beat them at Worlds, but it didn't happen that way.

    I still generally agree with you, but I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if an American team finished ahead of D/R on the World stage.
     
  11. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Yeah, that's where the :confused: bizarre things happening I eluded to in my post comes into play; who would have ever thought that Meghan would have broken Eric's nose coming down from the split 3 twist in the SP? That incident clearly and understandably rattled Duhamel/Radford at Worlds last season. And yes, Denney is in no way comparable to Yankowskas and her exquisitely beautiful lines and posture. Anyway, I fully expect all 3 Russian pairs representatives, both Chinese pairs representatives, Savchenko/Szolkowy, and Duhamel/Radford will finish ahead of both American teams barring the :confused: unexpected. The Americans are expected to be staying alive among the ranks of Takahashi (a shame she has so many jump inconsistencies; otherwise, they'd be a top 5 team)/Tran, the Italians, Dube/Wolfe, and others.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    But 2013 Worlds is being held in Canada. ;)

    Getting back to Evora/Ladwig :) ... in their immediate future are the 2 "Skate into Spring" shows at their Ellenton, Florida rink on Saturday, February 25 - more info: http://ellentonice.com/ice-news/123...ght-here-at-the-ellenton-ice-a-sports-complex
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  13. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Evora/Ladwig, remind me of Kavaguti/Smirnov
    veterans but if they hold on together for many more seasons, I believe they can still get that top us pairs spot.
     
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Sorry, but i have to disagree with you on both. I don't see K&S beating V&T at this point. However, if V&T have a bad day, K&S could win. As much as I like K&S, at this point their best hope is for a world bronze.

    I don't see E&L beating the current top two US pairs, even though E&L are a better pair overall. They have always struggled with the jumps and I don't see how that could change. If it's just nerves, it can be fixed. If it's technique, it's too late to fix that. Sadly E&L's hope at this point is for a US bronze.
     
  15. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    K&S were no.1 pair in russia before V&T and they achieved that. K&S had jump troubles even their throws but now they have improved.

    if its technique its not yet that too late, 3 more seasons if they can regroup they can still outskate M/B although not C/D
     
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Actually C&D are very beatable. They have nothing but the landings of the jumps and throws. When M&B develop, they will beat them, with a more complete program, and that could happen as early as the next US nationals. For the future of pairs skating in the USA, I hope that M&B will be the model, and not C&D who are pedestrian skaters as a pair. My feeling is that E&L have reached their potential and they cannot improve.
     
  17. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    I disagree that a clean E/L couldn't beat the current top US teams. They are better pair skaters with pairs skating elements period. If they hit their jumps they should be able to beat both. They beat a clean Denney/Barrett fairly handily with an okay skate in Nationals in 2011. And I believe D/B were far superior team to D/C at this point. My bottom line is, if anyone would have told me E/L would have made the Olympic team in 2010 with a good, but not perfect skate, I would have laughed in your face. Rena and john were halfway decent that year and I thought they had it in the bag. So I wouldn't count them out yet if they decide to keep going. Another year, another pair champ at Nationals is my saying and this may be the same this year. Besides, Rockne and Keauna were going to be the next big thing and a shoe in for the Olympics (to the point of actually making arragements in Vancouver for housing pre-Nationals) and looked what happened. Ice is slippery and I don't see M/B as being the future of US pairs in which we make it to the top tier on the world level. Anything can happen in two years in Pairs and who knows who will get injured, retire, or breakup. Putting all our eggs in the D/C and MM/RB seems a little premature. It's not like E/L were seventh at Nationals this year. And as much as I like Donlan/Speroff, I think Zhang/Bartholomay and Haven/Frazier show more future promise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    The reason I am not holding out hope for E&L at this point is that even though they are the better pair overall, the inability to land jumps is going to make it difficult for them to be in 1st or 2nd place. They could have one good performance in them, but I don't see it happening on a consistent basis. It's disappointing but that's how it appears to me.
     
  19. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is the judges seem almost blind to C&D's flaws and give them inflated scores inspite of them. They have received PCS on par with a teams like Barazova & Larinov this year which is laughable. I shudder to think the PCS the judges will give them if they improve just a bit (but are still in the truck drivers category). Sui & Han are another team grossly overscored on PCS. Unlike C&D I see alot of potential in them, but alot of work to be done, and I fear with the judges scoring them far too high so young they will become like the Zhangs, were they wont start improving until it is too late (and only when the judges begin scoring them fairly after many years of overscoring but still never reaching the top of a major podium). Why work on improving when the judges tell you that you dont need to.
     
  20. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I think part of the problem may be the way COP is designed. It does not give enough credit for the finer points, but gives a lot of points for the big elements (jumps and throws). If C&D's PCS were comparable with B&L's (I did not notice that) that is indeed laughable. The Zhangs always got away with poor lines, unison, spins, positions (particularly on the lifts) because they had big throws and at least early in their career they used to land the jumps consistently. I think S&H won't stop developing because they are getting high marks, but they are not likely to develop the things I value so much- lines and posture, unison, beautiful lifts, and musicality. They don't get points for being pretty, and as a viewer I feel robbed when I see ugly positions winning over beautiful ones. Of all the FS disciplines, pairs lost the most, IMO, by the changeover to COP.
     
  21. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    COP is horrible for pairs. As awful as it is to say a program like M&D's at the Albertville Olympics wouldnt even score well under COP with the missed solo jumps, the simpler lifts, and the well done but smaller throws, especialy with Russian federation now weak politically these days, even though it is plainly obvious it would deserve an extremely high score under any system. There is no attention to the finer points, but also no attentiont to things like the chemistry between partners, and the overall magic of ones performances level or program, which is essential to pairs, but dont fit anywhere under "skating skills" or "transitions" really (not that they bother even deducting from teams with poor skating skills or lack of transitions either).

    The scoring of many individual elements is too easy to loophole around too and not reflective of true quality. For instance a team like Totmianina & Marinin, as much as I like them and think they fully deserved their 2006 Oly Gold, should not be getting all top possible level grades of difficulty with high GOE for their lifts, which happened in Turin and most competitions they were in. They fulfill the requirements set by the code. Even though I dont really like Brasseur & Eisler their lifts were some of the best ever, and far more difficult and superior to T&M. Yet under COP the best they could do is be graded as the same difficulty of all of T&M's lifts. That is an example of a major COP flaw in pairs. There are so many others. The difficulty and originality of some moves, like the lifts, can not be properly graded by fulfilling a set of rules.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    ITA about the lifts. Brasseur & Eisler, who I never cared for, had some of the best lifts in pairs skating, but never got enough credit for them. They never competed under COP so it's hard to compare them with T&M, but B&E's lifts were far superior to T&M's (although T&M's unison on jumps, their landings on the throws were among the best in both scoring systems, IMO).
     
  23. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree! The judges are giving S/H and D/C PCS scores they have not yet earned.

    E/L can easily get on top with better choreography and landing those jumps. They are by far the most aesthetically pleasing pair. They shouldn't have any trouble getting ahead of either of the two pairs. Anyone can win and anyone can be beaten.
     
  24. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I hate to be a pessimist, but I doubt at this point that Amanda will ever become solid on the SBS jumps. That will hold them behind D/C and M/B on the national front.
     
  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Unfortunately, with the COP, I am afraid that S&H and D&C will continue to get high PCS scores, which defies logic, IMO. E&L will have to not only land the jumps but look more confident in their execution of jumps and throws. They may be the pairs version of Alissa Czisny. Even when they land the jumps, it is not with authority, and that's likely to hurt their PCS scores. They have been around a long time, and that's why I am afraid it may be too late for them to really climb up. I hope I am wrong.
     
  26. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    I think they land the throws with authority. Amanda just seems to lack confidence in her sbs. She has it in her. She hit them at the Olympics. Internationally their PCS scores improved this year, but I think D/C and M/B will probably be pushed more. I do think they may be able to pull a 'Ryan Bradley' and win a national title as there is a lot of support for them, especially stateside, but I am not sure about their chances internationally anymore.
     
  27. lclevers

    lclevers New Member

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    Anyone know why Evora and her boyfriend split after nationals?
     
  28. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    She broke up with her fiance before Nationals and I don't think either has gone public with the reason for the breakup.
     
  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Is anyone attending "Skate into Spring" at the Ellenton, Florida rink this Saturday (Feb. 25) at 5 pm or 7 pm? I believe Mark Ladwig is producing this year's show and hopefully it will be a great success!
     
  30. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I agree, they have landed plenty of throws very solidly in recent years, and they are one of the few teams that does both the throw 3Lutz/flip and loop in the LP. I saw glimpses of hope in Amanda's jumping in '10-'11, but this past year she really struggled... The underrotations are more of a concern, I feel, than any falls. I'm wondering if the pressure that built for them this year (as the other top US pairs split, they may have thought of themselves as more of the "favorite" for Nationals) made her more tentative. During the skates when she doesn't UR, they seem to score well, but she really has been plagued by URs in most years. I think she is at least capable of jumping a little better than she showed this season, and I hope that whenever they do decide to stop, it will be after a strong skate that makes them proud.