The Duggars - 20th child discussion

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by ilovepaydays, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. taf2002

    taf2002 Well-Known Member

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    This. My parents had 6 kids & we all had to pitch in & help with housework & caring for the youngest ones but none of us older ones had to sacrifice school or social activities because of being exploited by our parents. And after HS, all of us went on to college or in one case tech school & were not expected or encouraged to stay home to help mom.

    And it's unrealistic to say this family isn't costing taxpayers beyond the norm. Even if you don't count the cost of the pregnancy & care of #19, does anyone think what they would pay in property tax even comes close to educating 19-20 kids? Even if they are home schooled, the home school kits from the state can be costly to produce. And some state employee has to grade them & certify them. Add in all other services which city, county, & state provide to smaller families & their taxes (if they actually paid any) wouldn't even come close. As it is, they don't pay taxes yet they reap the same benefits as other citizens.
  2. Latte

    Latte Well-Known Member

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    I think it's crazy to have so many children. JMO.
    Hope she and baby are healthy.
    Though I am afraid that this is going to kill Michelle some day.:eek:
  3. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    They don't use state provided material. They use a curriculum called "Wisdom Booklets" for the younger kids, and now the older kids are doing product-placement "College Plus" (which is essentially a way to CLEP your way out of most of college, but it doesn't grant a degree- we'll see if any of them get that far...)

    As for grading and certifying, in Arkansas, they are required to take the state assessment at certain intervals, however, there is no minimum passing score that has to be met.

    I do believe the Duggars sit for the GED, so that is a plus (but not a state employee)
  4. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Fantasize a lot, do you?
  5. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Not to get off on too much of a theological tangent, but IIRC the Duggars previously said that they didn't use birth control methods, other than abstention, so that they would have as many children as G-d wanted them to, without their intervention. So if it's true that they couldn't conceive on their own this time, wouldn't it be going against G-d's will to have fertility treatments?
  6. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

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    My mom is the oldest of eight and my dad is one of 14. My mom spent many of her years caring for younger siblings, which can be considered a chore. But even she admits that the system used by the Duggars and other families like that is a big leap from changing diapers and helping mom feed the youngest children when needed. My mom quickly married to get out of the situation she was in during those years.

    I realize that these children put on a happy face for the camera, but one has to wonder what the children (especially those oldest four girls) think about another baby. Are they consulted? Are they asked about the additional responsibility or just assigned to it? I know the answer, but it still irks me to see what should be fun and free years for these children being wasted so mom and dad can live the life they want.

    While I am probably the opposite in my thinking in comparison to any of the Duggars, I would estimate that at least the oldest daughter, if not the oldest two daughters, would be thinking about marriage and children of their own. Raising their siblings has to be more of a burden than a reward at this point.
  7. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

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    In theory, yes. However, Kelly Bates - the friend of the Duggars who is pregnant with #19 has admitted to taking hormones (not sure what hormone) to assist in keeping her pregnancies after she has suffered several miscarriages. From my understanding that has raised a few eyebrows within their circles. However, her argument (and that of her husband) is that once the child is born they would do everything to save his or her life. So they argue that it is the same situation when the child is still in the womb.

    I have a feeling that if presented with fertility treatments as an option, the Duggars and others like them would probably find some reasoning to accept that as part of G-d's will. I just don't think they would announce it or advertise it. From my understanding, they seem to switch doctors quite a bit even. One theory on that is that they search out one who agrees with their current thoughts. If a doctor says no, they simply find one who says yes.
  8. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Just to put some numbers on it, the average property tax bill for a home with no mortgage in Springdale, AR is about $950/year. Now, assuming their home would be, say, five times that much (given the size of their house), that would be a little less than $5,000/year they aren't paying.

    The annual per pupil spending costs for Springdale, AR is about $5,100/student. By home-schooling (and they do provide their own curricula and materials) 15 of their kids at any given time, they are saving the state upwards of $75,000/year.
    AxelAnnie and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    You know, I started watching their show because I thought they were adorable kids, and I wanted to see how a family of that size managed.

    After about half a season, I realized that they managed because the older girls acted AS mothers, not just helpers, and that Jim Bob and Michelle were not the "parents of the year" they are often lauded as. I wish the kids the best in life, but the parents are despicable.

    I watched for a few years, but I can no longer stomach it. Between the way they handled Jason's (?) fall, and Josie being taken on an international trip when her health clearly can't handle it (as evidenced by needing a medical escort to come home with her), and the constant lying (that Michelle never left Little Rock when Josie was there, yet she went and spoke out against a convenience store selling alcohol near her hometown- live and let live? Why don't they do the same for others?) The modesty angle- she wanted her KNEES blurred out while she was wakeboarding (and once insisted her stomach be covered from her family on an ultrasound, though others have been shown to the cable audience with it bare), but we saw Anna, just barely blurred, giving birth on a toilet! It is just incredible hypocrisy.
  10. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think it is because Michelle, and those like minded, prefer vaginal births. It is very difficult to find doctors willing to do them on a patient with her number of births and c-sections.

    This one is supposed to be a planned C-section though.
  11. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

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    For those who have been watching the show, can anyone tell us what happened to the oldest twins? We've seen all of the children (including Josh and his wife) on every episode, but I don't remember the last time we saw Jana or John David. Where are they? What are they doing? They are grown up now. Have they decided this isn't the life they want to lead? Just curious.
  12. KikiSashaFan

    KikiSashaFan Well-Known Member

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    How old is Jinger now? I've only seen the show a handful of times, but I always figured if one really rebelled and left, she'd be the one.
  13. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    It is rumored that John David is courting a girl named Anna Hacken (Hackel?). I'm pretty sure his tow-truck company is as successful as one can be when you spend half your time away filming special episodes for a reality show. Like Josh's business, this one is apparently also actually owned by Jim Bob. People have said he lives outside of the Duggar house, at one of their rental properties, so that is a plus. I think the justification was because he gets lots of towing/fire department calls in the middle of the night.

    It is also rumored that Jana is pretty well set to be a stay at home sister for quite some time, as she and Jill seem to be the only of the older girls that enjoy the kids. (Jinger seems to do the bare minimum, Jessa is always filled with eye rolling when she is with the kids.)

    I think both of them don't like the camera, at least John David has always appeared shy, and I would suspect, as legal adults, even if they still have to stay under their parents authority due to the religious beliefs that maintain children as kids until marriage, that they can ask to not be filmed heavily.

    (I really hope all the adult children are being paid separately by the show. I know they don't have to pay the minors...)
  14. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    I've seen the show once this year and John David was shown as a firefighter, I think, and I think Jana and one of the other girls (I don't know the kids, so I could be way off) were EMTs. Jana apparently wants to be a nurse, if she's the one I'm thinking of.
    FiveRinger and (deleted member) like this.
  15. susan6

    susan6 Well-Known Member

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    I don't watch the show, but I'm wondering if any of the children are gay. Statistically speaking, it's pretty likely.
  16. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    They are not EMTs (it requires much more training than what they are said to have), but are trained first responders, and they do work with the volunteer firefighting that John David does. I think all four older girls are. I wonder what the qualification to be a volunteer firefighter is?

    Was Jana the one Oprah told she would pay to send her to nursing school? It is so unfortunate the parents won't let her take advantage of that. Why do they fear sending these kids into the real world? If they raised them well, they will hold their beliefs even in the real world. At least Anna's parents let her go to college, even if it was an unaccredited.
  17. taf2002

    taf2002 Well-Known Member

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    Who is Anna & why was she having a baby on a toilet? I thought all the names started with a J.

    BTW, what J name is left for #20?
  18. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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  19. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    I've never seen the show and I really don't care how many kids they have, but if my parents named me "Jinger," I'd be out the door on my 18th birthday. And I'd change my name.

    My mom was one of 11 kids and taking care of the young'uns is just part of the deal. It's really not forced servitude and the benefits are life-lasting. I'm always amazed at how well my 82-year old Aunt can organize a party food buffet, "set another place" and make everyone who walks through the door feel welcome. She doesn't even know that she has these fantastic skills - I've learned so much from all my aunts and uncles on that side. The were orphaned during the Depression so the oldest not only had to care for younger kids, they have to provide for them as well.

    The Duggars are truly blessed and I don't begrudge them the TV show. Many of the values you've spoken about are things that others can stand to learn, including kindness.
  20. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Anna is Josh's husband.

    She was having a homebirth, which they did prepare for (the first child was a spur of the moment homebirth, with Jim Bob on the phone asking them if they were sure that was a good idea). She had a birthing pool, that she labored in, and also labored on the couch, holding her daughter MacKenzie (very sweet moment), but at one point she said she felt like she needed to go the bathroom, and got up to go the bathroom, where, while on the toilet, she had the baby. It probably wasn't blurred as well as it could have been, considering the "modesty" of this family (not to mention, we've met the crew, and they are all male, so they were clearly invited in to view this...)

    Some women have said the final pushes often feel like needing to go the bathroom, so Anna, who is only on her second, may just not have recognized that. Still, it was kind of an "ugh" moment, when after cleaning their whole house, and covering it all in plastic and such, she delivered the baby on the toilet in a bathroom that didn't look sparkling clean.

    This episode was very graphic, because it showed real labor- no drugs. Anna "kept sweet" during almost all of it, you could tell she was in real pain. Nothing like the majority of births portrayed on TV. A really really interesting episode, honestly. Josh, I believe, took a nap at one point...
  21. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    Jesse, Justine, Jacob, Jarrod, June, Jesus, Julie, Julie Ann, Josephine but some of those are variations of names they've already used.
  22. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I read that as jing-er for years before I saw their first show. No idea it was the same as Ginger.

    That said, I'd be just as pissed if my name was Johannah, after having a Joy-Anna. Or if my name was Jedidiah.


    Can't believe it took them to 17 to get a Jennifer! (And that they went for Jinger first...)
  23. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    That would turn into a whole other reality show.

    My question as one who has never seen the show - do viewers think that this show encourages or discourages people to have 15+ kids? Not in a recruitment sense - but in a glamour lifestyle sense? "I want to be like the Duggars" type of thing.
  24. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    Having never seen the show, I assumed "Jinger" rhymed with "ringer." Well, in that case ...
    nah, I'd still be changing my name, at least to spell it like it sounds. (See: Wojohowitz)
  25. OlieRow

    OlieRow Well-Known Member

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    That hasn't stopped them before! Jana, Joy Anna, Johannah
  26. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    That's a really interesting question. I watch the show if I come across it when it's on, and I also read Michelle and Jim Bob's book:
    http://www.amazon.ca/Duggars-Counting-Raising-Americas-Families-How/dp/141658563X

    which I found gave me more of an appreciation for them. I may not agree with all of their faith principles and what they're doing, but they come across as thoughtful people who are deeply committed to their beliefs, and to living those beliefs rather than just talking about them.

    That said, I think the show is edited to emphasize the positive things in their lifestyle - the close family bonds, the fun that the kids have with each other, etc. There's also an element of watching just to see how the h*ll a household that size can even function. But even with that selectivity, there are still things that come through that you only pick up on once you've watched for a while. E.g. when they show the kids' rooms, it's like an overcrowded college dorm, and their "closets" are more like a uniform dispensing area. You also notice that when they go on trips and outings, Jim Bob does a lot of standing around in front of a scene and talking while the older girls are doing all the actual hard work of packing and organizing behind him :( They also hardly ever talk about money or how they manage to get the $$$ to raise that many kids, which is pretty unrealistic.

    So, no, I don't think they're presented in a glamorous "be like them" way (say, like the Karda$hians), but OTOH I don't think anyone watching it would necessarily get the impression that this lifestyle is for everyone.
  27. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    Do they have a Jackson?

    My vote for girl name is JeezLouise.
  28. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think Jackson came in at #14 or so.

    :lol:
  29. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

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    :eek: This is actually more shocking than her giving birth on the toilet! :p :lol:
    That sounds very .. uh supportive. :shuffle:

    As to possible "J" names for JimBob and Michelle's latest child, there was a lively discussion about this here on FSU a while back -- it might have even been as long ago as the baby before Josie (# 18). My suggestion for a boy was to borrow a name from one of Jermaine Jackson's progeny -- Jermajesty. It's hard to top that one, imo. :D For a girl, perhaps Jacinda ... or for something flowery ... Jonquil, Jasmine, or even Jacaranda. ;) I'd take any one of those myself rather than Jinger. :scream:
  30. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Oops, typo.

    Though, I suppose we were just talking about the statistical likelyhood that one of them would be gay. So Josh can have a husband...
  31. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

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    My oldest daughter is named Ginger. I think it's cute, and with her Hawaiian background, it suits her perfectly. :p
  32. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Ginger is a really nice name. But spelling it "Jinger" just so it starts with a J, even while pronouncing it "Ginger"....that's something else.
  33. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I have no problem at all with Ginger -- I also like it and had a friend in middle school with that name (and a very nice therapist named Ginger a couple of decades later). But Jinger is something entirely different for me. I rank it right up there with Jermajesty.
  34. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    On first glance, I'd pronounce Jinger like Ringer instead of like Ginger. Don't know why, I just would.
  35. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think that is normal upon reading the name...


    Does anyone who still watches the show know if the younger kids (Jennifer, Jordyn, maybe even Johannah) ever get beds? Are they still sleeping in pack and plays?

    I will never understand why they built the house and bedrooms for the number of kids they had then, rather than with room to grow (I think the middle girls share beds with the oldest girls), since they clearly knew they'd be having more.
  36. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    i think the last time she procreated, someone in the thread suggested jubilee which cracked me up. but i might have to make room for jeezlouise.
  37. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

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    That's how I thought it was pronounced when I first saw it ... and thought it was one of the Duggar sons. Jingo, jungle, jingle ... when there is an initial "J" then a "g" that follows rarely, if ever, is also pronounced that same way ... except for the Duggar's Jinger. It would make for less confusion if they had spelled it "Jinjer" -- but of course, they didn't consult with me. :p
  38. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why people have such a problem with the spelling of 'Jinger'?

    JINger and GINger are pronounced the exact same way.
  39. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Can you think of another word that has the same pronounciation as Ginger though? With that spelling (so not injure)

    There seem to be lots of words that are like Ringer, singer, stinger, finger, linger. So it seems natural to see -inger you would pronounce it that way, and not like Ginger.
  40. ilovesalchows

    ilovesalchows Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking Ringer too. But I have seen stranger names. I am due with my second TODAY and we still have no idea what to name him. We will come up with something before we leave the hospital because I don't want to have to go to the social security office on my own. Maybe Jinger would work for a boy as well :)

    I can't imagine why anyone who had all the scary complications she has had would keep having children. I was scared enough by the genetic testing I had to do because I am 35 .