The Carolina Kostner Thread

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by jiggs, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. jiggs

    jiggs Well-Known Member

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  2. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    Carolina didn't step out of the Loop, no idea who brought the news. Her program was incredible and she had only positive geo
  3. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Protocols

    Just lower than expected PCS. One judge gave her 6.75 for P/E.
  4. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's a bit surprising that Carolina didn't score higher on the PC for what seems to be quite a clean and polished performance. Maybe the judge who gave her 6.75 touched the wrong button?:rolleyes:

    Anyways, I think I'm liking Kostner's new short program.:)
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Cross-posting from the Golden Spin of Zagreb thread in Kiss & Cry - Kostner's "Bolero" FS debut (good to see her including 3Lz again): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRevSNTNMKc
    Kostner won Golden Spin with unofficial scores of 110.03 (FS) and 175.02 (total).
  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I don't like Bolero for a solo skater, and I don't like it for Carolina as well (as I didn't like it for Michelle Kwan). But I admit the end of Carolina's program is amazing, the step sequence, and the 3Salchow at the end : WOW.
    I love Carolina's skating.
  7. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Kostner got a 110 for THAT??? Stepped out of the lutz, doubled the flip, popped the salchow and only did a 1/2/1 combo for her 3 jump combination. Her footwork sequence, by the way, took nearly 40 seconds!!!!! These are the scores that baffle me. She didn't do anything to cushion her score, where in the world did the points come from? Did they give her +3 GOE for everything she did?
  8. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

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    HA! I knew she was going to throw in a few references to Plisetskaya's interpretation with the stanky leg and the arm...thing! Glad she went for the lutz. This is seriously the slowest recording of Bolero I've ever heard...loved the ending :) On first view I prefer Mozart, but this is good!
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Despite the bad footage of her sp, Carolina looked pretty good with a fairly strong performance, from a distance. Boy what an empty stadium!

    Interesting that Carolina's sp music (which I like) has a somewhat melancholy violin refrain/ motif. The sp choreography looks good. Haven't taken a look at her fp yet.

    ETA:

    After viewing her fp, I'm not impressed with Carolina's choice of Bolero music. I don't think the music suits her style at all. Plus why pick this music in the same year as S/S flamenco Bolero? I didn't like Bolero for Michelle Kwan either. I'm not thrilled with it for S/S either, but their change of costumes and tweaking of their program has helped somewhat. Bolero's repetitive theme is not the best choice for skating ... ITA, especially not for a solo skater.

    Torvill and Dean did Bolero best. End of story.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  10. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    http://www.croskate.hr/media/ZP12/GSp12/GSp12_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
  11. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    If you watch the video, it's kind of hard to argue that those scores weren't fully justified. :shuffle:
  12. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Im sure the program overall looked better in person than on the bad quality video.Yes, she had many obvious mistakes that i'm sure she will be able to clean up. The step sequence was amazing, deserving of a +3 GOE in my opinion. Less PCS marks than i expected

    Short program was great. Choreography was brilliant. Slightly less GOE and PCS than i expected as well.

    Overall if she can do the jumps then for sure she could place at worlds and beat Wagner
  13. EuroWaltzing

    EuroWaltzing New Member

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    Thanks for the links Jiggs. Looks like she's been paying attention in ballet class! There is just something about Caro...she has that little bit extra that the others don't have (Mao excepted).
  14. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Except the reigning world champion did not even quality for the minimum TES score on her first big return, way to go Sr. ladies!!! :shuffle:
  15. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    She had already obtained the minimum TES last season. I expect that her TES for the Free Skate will be significantly higher when she returns to Zagreb next month.
  16. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    Thanks for the video!

    Oh dear, Carolina, what were you thinking? A Bolero? Really? With all the musics available out there that you have the talent to inteprete, did you really have to bring up that one? :wall:

    Clearly this is a work in progress. As it is, it has its moments, but unfortunately, they almost all happen when she's posing, there's no other choreography to speak for the first three minutes and as someone else pointed out, there are almost no transitions in and out of the jumps. Also not the best cut of Bolero we've ever heard....

    On the plus side, the lutz is back and is even fully rotated! Hopefully she'll stick with it because it's only through repeating it in competition situation that she can hope to have a stable 3Lz in high pressure situations. The two sequences at the end are good, although I'd really wish she wouldn't pose AGAIN before starting on her steps sequence because she's effectively killing the momentum at a pretty crucial moment of the music. I LOVE that she ends on a 3S though

    She still has some time to develop this until coming back to Zagreb so here's hoping that she can fill in the blanks, polish this and show us a great program comes the Europeans
  17. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Now that I see the protocols for the LP it is even worse. A 110 for a program with exactly 1 clean triple. Something is clearly wrong with this system.
  18. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Why? Her TES was 44.01, reflecting the fact that she had exactly one clean triple (and some difficult and well-executed non-jump elements). Her PCS of 62.66 is a fairly accurate reflection of the quality of her actual skating. One could certainly argue that it should be a bit lower because part of the performance aspect of her skate comes when she isn't moving across the ice, but at least one poster in this thread has said that she (or he) is surprised that her PCS wasn't higher.

    Under 6.0, the judges might well have kept her second mark artificially low, placing her behind skaters with inferior skating skills and artistry purely because they did better on the elements. Thank goodness they can't get away with that so easily any more.
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I apologize if this is supposed to be a Carolina cheer thread for her fans.

    I have only seen her LP from Zagreb so far this season, and I am disappointed, after reading so many raves of her performance. I assume it will improve with time, and I believe it was much better live, than on the video. Still, I cannot ignore the facts that-1)she stepped out of the 3L, singled a salchow (I think), and struggled with a couple other jumps, 2) awful choice of music for a singles skater's LP (Bolero has worked for only a handful of skaters, and among singles I can only think of Plushenko, but that was a SP), 3) in one segment she was doing a lot of posing, and not enough skating (by the COP standards), 4)she appeared slow, but that could be the fault of the video.

    What I liked about her program though was the change of directions, and overall choreography. If she is able to skate it to its full potential, it could become a strong program. Otherwise I don't think it will be enough to beat Yu na Kim or even Ashley Wagner, or a nearly clean Mao Asada.

    This is how I saw this performance, but I do expect it to get a lot better.
  20. jiggs

    jiggs Well-Known Member

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    I am finally back from a long work-weekend and have had time to sit down and watch both of Carolina's programs. I love the short program - it is beautifully done and was beautifully skated here. Amazing steps as always, nice "airy" quality to it, perfect jumps and good levels on all of her elements. I think this program is quite ready at this point.

    I didn't have the same feeling about her LP and it left me with a feeling that it is a work in progress. I am not quite sold on it, but I feel like it has a lot of potential. It might be the video angle or quality but at this point it doesn't do anything for me. I have never liked programs that consist of a lot of posing and have critisized that with Ashley and other skaters too, and I don't make an exception here ... most of the choreography in this Bolero consists of posing. The program seems slow for her standards which I don't understand - you have one of the fastest skaters in the world and you give her a program where you don't emphasize her speed and flow? This is what I loved about last year's program - everything just flowed and was connected to each other, it never stopped. This Bolero is stop-go-stop-go. I guess it is the video quality that adds to that impression and I am sure it is much better live, but this is my impression after watching this video.

    Her steps are exquisite though - I still think she is the best in the world when it comes to step sequences and she moves so quickly in all different directions, it's incredible.

    That being said, this is why I like Carolina so much - she just always tries out something new, even if it doesn't suit her style 100%. People critisize her for playing it safe jumpwise but forget the fact that she is never "playing it safe" in terms of choreography. She takes risks, unlike many other ladies who stick to the styles they do best. I am quoting shine from another thread here, because I couldn't have said it any better:

    I think she just needs more time to make this program grow. I believe it has the potential to turn into something really special once she becomes more natural with those moves. When she hits her jumps, I think this would build up really well until the end. Can't wait to see her perform those two programs again at Nationals this weekend!
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  21. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    She's simply exquisite! :kickass::oksana1:

    I fell in love with "Bolero" the first time I saw it. The skater, the moves, the choreography, the music, the passion, everything just gelled. Lol I concede I was so entranced by it all I totally forgot about the jumps (the true mark of a phenomenal performer), only noticing the very last one, the 3salchow, which she did at the very end of the program, which made me sit up and take notice because only a master of said jump can put it in at the very last second (e.g. Keegan Messing's 3toe; btw always wanted Zhenya to do so with the 3axel, his $$$$ jump, still crossing my fingers one day he will do so). :hat1:

    After 10 years of watching this beautiful doe, it feels good to see her finally coming into her own, seizing that 10-carat she always has been.

    What a joy it is to watch her skate! *bow:
  22. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    hope that she will get her jumps ready before the Worlds.
  23. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    Simone411 and (deleted member) like this.
  24. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    Some of those jumps are pretty impressive. :)
  25. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    IF she could do that in competition, she could beat Yu-Na and everyone else.
  26. jiggs

    jiggs Well-Known Member

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    This means her layout will probably be:

    3lz
    2a
    3f3t
    3l
    3t2t
    3sal2t2l
    3sal

    That is very ambitious. Curious to see what she does at Italian Nationals this weekend.
  27. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

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    It is quite ambitious. Also, if she misses the triple flip/triple toe combo she could turn the triple toe/double toe into a triple toe/triple toe and have that get the second half of program bonus. Nice strategy. Also looking forward to Italian Nationals :)
  28. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why she wouldn't do

    2A-3T and 3F

    instead of

    3F-3T and 2A

    The first choice seems less risky, and scores the same points..
  29. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I guess she is testing to add the 3Lz. And I'm not sure, if she tries the 3Lz, that she'll try a 3/3 or a 2A/3T.
    I guess the 2A/3T will be instead of the entering 3Luzt. JMHO.
  30. jiggs

    jiggs Well-Known Member

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  31. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

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    Simone411 and (deleted member) like this.
  32. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    That was brilliant! :cheer:
  33. cris_c

    cris_c Guest

    Thank you! Wonderfully skated and gorgeus program!
  34. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    This program is really amazing! So many interesting subtle nuances and I love how she always does a change of direction or turn right when the music changes as well. Beautiful phrasing and she really felt the Bolero rhythm throughout! Now just please turn that triple toe into a second triple flip and bring back the 2axel-3toe!
  35. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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    That was terrific! I think I finally like another "Bolero" program!
  36. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    She really skated so great at Nationals. And now only waiting for Euros to see her live. Oh, I have to wait way to long time
  37. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Her SP is very nice! I don't like the LP as much.

    The worlds will be so much more exciting than last year's! Hope everybody shows up healthy and ready.
  38. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    Taso, thank you for sharing the video. What an amazing program! Loved the choreography, great jumps, artistry - can't get any better than that. Bravo, Carolina! :)
  39. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thanks so much Taso for the video! :)
  40. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Those were two really beautiful programs showcasing what is IMO, the best lady skater in the world right now. Just the sheer quality of everything she does, the lines are amazing, her musicality spine tingling and the jumps, when they work, are every bit as good as anything anyone else has to offer. ;) It will be interesting to watch this grow through Euro's and Worlds and whether or not she plans to upgrade further. I wasn't so impressed in Zagreb but maybe that was because she seemed quite far away and the jumps weren't working that day, but watching this it looks like a whole different program. Love all the changes of direction throughout and that final triple sal out of the choreo sequence made my jaw drop. Ok someone help me, I think I'm becoming a Caro uber!! :eek: