The "bests" of the best

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skateboy, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    I think Cohen is the most beautiful skater to ever grace the ice. I can watch here with her two-footed landings or falls over perfect Kwans or Kims. Her 2004 Marshall's program is a true masterpiece. No one has her beauty, positions, line, posture, elegance and of course spirals. When she's able to put it all together, I mean spirals, spins, artistry along with perfect jumps, as she did at 2004 Marshalls she's just outstanding and certainly belongs to the list.
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    To each their own. I dont think there is anything Sasha does better than Michelle except spins personally. A clean Sasha never had a chance against a clean Kwan so I guess the judges felt that way too. Sasha has weaker jumps and weaker basic skating (edges, speed, flow), than other top skaters even on a good day. Her choreography was hit or miss, sometimes it was great, but her Carmen and Swan Lake programs were not well choreographed and didnt even have much choreography in them.
     
  3. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    [Q]A clean Sasha never had a chance against a clean Kwan so I guess the judges felt that way too.[Q]

    I'm not so sure about that. In any event, we never got to find that out.

    [Q]I dont think there is anything Sasha does better than Michelle except spins personally.[Q]

    To each their own, indeed!
     
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    2002 Nationals and the Q round of the 2003 Worlds.
     
  5. falling_dance

    falling_dance D. Murakami's Newest Fan

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    Cohen put her hand down on a second salchow (not in combination, as it needed to be in order to count) in the LP at the first of those events.
     
  6. Louise

    Louise Banned Member

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    So I watched Cohen's 'Robin Lake' program. Why oh why could she not do a solid performance like this ever again? You watch it and think this is a skater who has her technique down pat. Then she falls all over the place the rest of her career.

    Like JJ, I didn't appreciate Yamaguchi. Everything was so computerized and robotic, and I always felt she emulated Jill Trenary's mannerisms too much. I disagree with the comparison with Roz. Roz did have "It" in spades, it was only when she was doubling and singling everything that she became ho-hum. Yamaguchi just never had a personality, even if it would have been ice bitch I'd say thank god there is a personality there. Yamaguchi doing color commentary was just as bad. You think Kwan has her Kwanesque non-answers? Yama was even worse because she effused it with a big nervous smile and absolutely no return. Very uncomfortable.

    I will go out on a limb and say that I really liked Butyrskaya's Swan Lake. Hey, even swans have clumsy long legs sometimes, right? I liked that she choreographed it herself and was committed to the performance.

    In terms of technical (at that time) and choreo, I still think that Ito's 1990 LP is tops. The jumps were amazing, and Ito REALLY worked on her presentation. She's built like a fire hydrant, so she's never going to be Kwan, but she used her music and had interesting choreo and transitions.

    Team Ito here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  7. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Right! :)
     
  8. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Funny because I remember watching the the Worlds SPs on ESPN (pre-internet days for me) and after they put Butryskaya first after the SP, I seriously thought that they did so in order to give Kwan a chance at that world title since Maria was more likely to mess up than Irina. Not to take anything away from Maria and not to say she did not deserve first place after her exquisite SP.

    BTW, I thought Kwan's 2001 Worlds performance was better than her 2000 one, but I can see an argument one way or the other.
     
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Who knows. If they wanted Kwan to win I think her marks would have been higher for one of her best ever performances, although she was skating before Maria and Irina in the long. That plus Irina with her worst performance of the season still had some 1st place ordinals.
     
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I don't believe it was preplanned. Things just turned out that way. Maria skated a beautiful SP and deserved her marks. Michelle skated great in the LP, and she was the first skater, so her marks were appropriately 'good but not great'. Had either Irina or Maria skated clean, Michelle would not have won, but not because the judges planned anything. There is no way they could predict how everyone would skate.
     
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The thing that bothered me the most was the two 5.6s for technical merit. The rest of the marks were 5.7, 5.8 technical and 5.8, 5.9 artistic which still left plenty of room for BOTH Maria and Irina to potentially beat them. There was no justification for any judge giving a 5.6 for one of the best ladies performances ever though. Really it was a performance worthy of 5.9 technical and 6.0 artistic, putting aside the skating order and the situation. Anyway who really thought Maria and Irina were going to both skate cleanly (Maria probably has a 5% likelihood given her history).

    I agree Maria was the clear winner of the short. Both her elements and performance were the strongest of the ladies that round, except some of Irina's spins and Michelle's spiral sequence were better, but that is it.
     
  12. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I don't see how the judges would have given 5.9 for that performance, as good it was, when Irina had planned a 3L3R and 3S3R in her LP. Then they would have to give Irina 6.0 for tech. Also giving Michelle, the first skater, 6.0 artistically would have made it impossible to give fair marks to the rest of the ladies. I agree that the 5.6 were too low for tech, but 5.7 and 5.8 for tech were quite understandable. The judges always left room for later skaters in the 6.0 system, and everything was relative.
     
  13. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If Irina did the content she had planned successfullly she would probably deserve 6.0s for technical merit.
     
  14. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    She succeeded with this content at 2000 GPF and got one 6 for technical merit even though she wasn't a favourite back then so she surely would've got a few sixes at Worlds where she already was a favourite thanks to her GPF performance.
     
  15. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    My thought, too.
     
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    IMO Michelle's best ever performance was at the 2001 worlds (Song of the black swan), although The Red Violin is awfully close. I saw the former live, and may be that was the difference maker for me.