I know that a lot of fans are anticipating the days we see 4 quad programs and a handful of skaters are working on such programs as well. However, I think that it's simply not worth it. Assuming a skater can do 4S and 4T, it'd likely be smarter to do two of their strongest quad and one of the weaker one. Let's take Max Aaron for example. If he does two 4S and two 4Ts then he can only do one 3A. In essence the second 4T would be replacing a 3A. 4T is worth only 1.8 more than a 3A, which in a close finish may make the difference of even two placements, however if for instance Max's Axel is on, he can get positives on it. Now, I've never seen his toe completed in a program, but I assume that any new jump would be weaker than a jump he has done for many years already. In my opinion, for a skater to do a fourth quad, that quad should be as consistent as their triple axel, or else it isn't worth it at all. There's no reason to take such a huge risk over less than 2 points. Just my opinion anyways

Tim Goebel might have benefited from being allowed to do 4 quads. I think you are right, but maybe there are unusual skaters like Goebel heading toward a 4 quad program soon. His 3A seemed less consistent in competition than his quads.

Is there a rule that says he can't do two 3As if he does four quads? I am cautiously for it; I would like to see it but ONLY if the skater who tries it can do so without putting himself at unneccessary risk. Given Max is a Tom Z skater I am especially wary.

The Zayac Rule. I think it's for repeating quad and triples, right ? Plus, if you do two quad toe, one must be in combo, same for quad sal. So, in fact, by repeating those 2 quads, you have to be good at quad/triple combo. If not, it's better in term of points to do 3Axel/3Toe, than 4Toe/2Toe. Am I right ?

If he has three different quads in his arsenal (I don't think anyone has), he can do four quads and two 3As eg. 4T, 4T+2T, 4S, 4F, 3A, 3A+2T (and two other jumping passes)

The base value of a 4T+2T is worth more than 3Lz+3T, but it also depends on GOE - link to the current ISU Scale of Values document: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3589

Theoretically, i believe that someone could do something along the lines of 4S+3T 4S 4T+2T 4T 3X 3Z+1/2R+3S 3R 3F and there would be no invalid elements or extra combinations

Ok a bit OT but if the Triple Loop was the first ever triple why is it no one has attempted a Quad Loop yet we have had several Quad Lutz and Flip attempts (both ratified??) and several skaters that can do a Quad Sal? Also Quad Loop in pairs. When are we going to see one?

^^ I believe both Reynolds and Mroz attempt 4L I also realize that it is possible to do a 4 quad program, but I'm saying it's probably not worth the risk.

Given that there had only been less than 10 programs with 3 successful quads (Joubert and Reynolds one each - yes, Kevin only managed it once, at 4CC, Javier twice and Tim Goebel 4 or 5 times) I find the 4-quads debate rather academic. It would probably take immense concentration and stamina, thus making it difficult to perform the rest fo the program, so possibley the elevated BV isn't worth it. However - it will make for a great wow-factor and probably result in elevated PCS and being the first (and only) man to do it is good for your repuatation. Since the competition is a combintion of SP and LP scores, it would be better to concentrate on a 5-quad-competition - 2 in the short, 3 in the free. If you are solid enough to go for 4 in the free you should be secure enough to go for 2 in the short.

The Zayak Rule treats quadruple and triple jumps separately, so it's possible, for example to have two 4T's and two 3T's in the same program or even two 4T's, two 4S's, and two 3T's. The problem with having two 4T's, two 4S's, and 3A's in the same program isn't the Zayak Rule per se but the rule that limits a skater two three jump combinations, only one of which can be a three-jump combinations, and the practicalities of the program. Without working it out on paper, I think the skater would have to have at least one jump combination end with a 4T, and good luck with that!

Takeshi Honda landed a 3 quad program at 2003 4CCs. Not sure what jumps are still in Brandon Mroz's repetoire, but he's done 4T and 4Lz. Did they say he was trying a 4Lo at Nationals? I believe Roman Serov was trying 4Lo, too.

Actually he was never prohibited from doing 4 quads. I think he just preferred to repeat the 3axel in the free because his 4toe was less consistent. No. If you repeat 2 4toes, 2 4sals and 2 3toes, you will be repeating more than 2 types of jumps with 3 revs and over. The last one will not count. And this is precisely because 4toes and 3toes are viewed as different jumps. And similarly you can't repeat 2 4toes, 2 4sals and 2 3axels. But for argument's sake, it's possible to devise such a layout without having a combination ending in a 4toe: 4toe3toe2loop 4toe 4sal2toe 4sal 3axel3loop 3axel (illegal, should be replaced with 3loop in this case) 3lutz 3flip

But surely that wouldn't work either because then you'd be repeating 4t, 4s and 3lo? Wouldn't you have to replace the 2nd 3a with a 2a? This rule is so confusing!

It turns out that I was mistaken. ISU Rule 512: http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-206192-223415-177357-0-file,00.pdf That means that a skater who does two 4T's and two 4S's can't repeat any triple jumps. As far as I can tell, the most likely jump layout would be something like this: 4S+2T 4S 4T+2T 4T 3A 3Z 3F 3R+2T+2T

Indeed. I heard Yagudin was also working on it, though never saw it from my own eyes (except once a quad attempt of which I missed the entrance, but due to the place on the ice and the curve, it may well have been a 4Lp attempt).

You left out a 3T and 3S. This is legal too (4 Quads, 6 Triples): 4S+3T 4S 4T+2T 4T 3A 3Z 3F 3S+3Lo+2T And if you want to get really mathematical, this is pretty much as many jump elements a man can pack in (4 Quads, 6 Triples, 1 2A) with no sequence deductions: 4T+3T+2Lo 4T 4S+2Lo 3A 3Lz+3Lo 3F 3S 2A Although I suppose this is possible and insane (4 Quads, 6 triples, 2 2A) 4T+3T+3Lo 4T 4S 4S+2Lo 3A 3L 3F 2A+2A+SEQ

Interesting thread, I have no doubt that someone will eventually skate a 4-quad LP sometime in the future. After all there's nowhere else to go but up! And mayhap if might even be Max Aaron (he did state that's his dream). But for now, no, 2018 Olympics, yes. In the meantime my bet is on 3 men skating a 3-quad LP at next year's Olympics (if they make the team, of course): Javiar Fernandez (duh), Kevin Reynolds, Max Aaron.

Brandon Mroz regularly does 4L in practice. The following layout is worth more, points wise than anyone has posted above. 4S 3L 4S 4T 4T 3T 3A 3lz 1l 3s 3f 2A

No, sorry. What I posted above (and copied below) has a higher base value (not applying any time bonus): 4T+3T+3Lo 4T 4S 4S+2Lo 3A 3L 3F 2A+2A+SEQ This layout has an additional 2A and a maxed out three-jump combination (yours includes a half-loop, which is scored as a 1Lo).

You could up the value of yours a tiny bit by turning the final 2A+2A sequnce into a 3S+2A sequence too.

Oh d'oh missed the Salchow, sorry John and Antman, you're right. 4T+3T+2A 4T 4S+3Lo 4S 3A 3L 3F 3S+2A Okay, I think that's maxed out. LOL.