Team competition at Sochi

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by That Don Guy, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Kerstin Frank and Viktor Pfeiffer better start practicing! It's too bad Kira Korpi is so tall: she'd make a lovely pairs skater. FIN has Dance teams that could be appointed, and, who knows, if Korpi does this well at GP next year, FIN might be the 10th team, since one Korpi = Coomes/Buckland + Jenna McCorkell placement points-wise.

    I don't know what the alternate policy is for the Olympics. If a country qualifies one skater for the individual discipline, either through qualifying (London or Nebelhorn) or as Olympic host, appoints one, that skater has to skate both events. Kovtun could be appointed to the Olympic team, with Plushenko as the alternate, and then have a medically approved injury after the team event, leaving Plushenko to skate singles 1. If the team FS isn't after the Men's SP and 2. If the timing for replacements were to work out. (I know the Team Event is supposed to start before the rest of the competition, but I'm not sure when the team FS is in the rest of the schedule.)

    Similarly, if Canada doesn't earn a second Ladies spot, Rochette would be in the same boat, were she to want to come back, although I suspect they'd do it the other way around, since Rochette would like to do the team event.

    According to the announcement, each country has to declare who will skate the Free "immediately (latest about 10 minutes) after the conclusion of the last Short Program/Short Dance of the Team Event in order to ensure that the Team composition of all Teams are known before the beginning of the Free Skating/Free Dance." (I hope the "conclusion" means after the marks are in place, because if they're skating in reverse order, the results of the presumably strongest/highest ranked skater could make a difference in strategy, and I'd guess the skater's Federation would like to get some feedback on how that skater/team was feeling before committing them to the Free.
     
  2. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, I do not see why someone like S&S would be at all motivated to compete in the team event. Or a Japanese singles skater when their chance at a medal is quite realistically low. I don't see anyone going all Mirai Nagasu if they end up fourth in the team event.

    OTOH, if I were Osmond, I would be all over that team event. While I am not dismissing her chances at landing on the podium come 2014, it's still gonna be a pretty long shot. However, a medal in the team is practically assured.
     
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    S&S might be willing to do the SP to check out the ice and get the nerves out, but it is awfully close to their actual event. The divers at the Olympics had to do three rounds. The winner of the Men's platform event got the last qualifying spot after the first round, and several of them talked about getting the nerves out in the preliminary rounds (2 of them).

    Are the same judging panels doing both the team and individual events? If so, it's risky for any skater in contention to do the team event.
     
  4. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Exactly. And this will take the pressure off her for the ladies event and may even boost her PCS as a current Olympic medallist.

    The same can also be said about Wagner. Although Wagner has a much better shot at a medal in the ladies event than Osmond, with Kim, Kostner and the Japanese, the odds are still uncertain and it's always great to have another shot at an Olympic medal because who knows if she is staying in for 2018. Same for the Russian lady, whoever that is (hopefully not Leonova - her world medal is hard enough to stomache as it is).
     
  5. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    i remember an enthusiastic ingo steuer, as the team event was decided. but i don´t know what´s in his (their) minds right now. i like the concept of such an event but i don´t like it before the individuals and i wouldn´t like it after the individuals ;)

    btw, germanys chances to qualify for the free skates of the best six teams(if s/s skate) are not that unrealistic with z/g. it all depends on liebers and whoever lady will be sent, if they can for one time deliver the right performance at the right time. get dytrt back, she should be good for that ;)
     
  6. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Searching for Cizeron's Instagram

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    Jeschke, it is only 5 teams that proceed to the finals. It will be very hard for Germany to reach the top 5. Russia, Canada and US should reach the finals easily unless some disaster strikes them at teh SP... France has strong team sin the form of Amodio and P/B, pairs are good and Meite will survive the event. Japan can also qualify if they manage to give citizenship to Tran, especially since they are so strong on ladies and men's section, even a dead last performance from Reeds will be enough for them to make it the LP. Otherwise again Italy can make it with Kostner, C/L, and B/H are not bad in pairs as well. Italians main problem is in the men's event. Germany will need a lot of things going their way to make the LP, especially their men and ladies are equally bad.
     
  7. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    my fault, i planned with the 6 as in wtt, forgetting about only 5 teams moving on.
    so they´re out 100%. i just would have given germany a small shot for the 6th spot, but top5 will be out of reach. so i hope the germans are sending hausch/wende or vartmann/van cleave in the competition, and not s/s, but let´s see.
     
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I don't know why the Reeds are slated for dead last, when they've already beaten Coomes/Buckland and Huang/Zheng are are still getting heir competitive legs back after last year's injury. I don't see them beating Zhiganshina/Gazsi, but stranger things have happened.
     
  9. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    If I were Steuer, I'd be happy for Russia and hope that V&T skate lights out during the team event, exhausting all their energy by the time of the pairs event.
     
  10. starryxskies

    starryxskies New Member

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    Relax, I was just pointing it out that he tends to be vocal about these things. Never in my post did I say it was bad if he throws a fit. There are skaters that would be opposed to this and they should rightfully do so. Being passive about it isn't going to change anything.

    Withdrawing a skater illegitimately and inserting the better skater for the singles event like mentioned previously would be very fishy and I definitely think the ISU would be all up on that but I mean....with all the politicking, even the far-fetched things can happen. I definitely think Joannie can fend for herself in the ladies, she's still quite in shape and should seriously consider coming back. Hopefully Osmond can get Canada that second spot in London. There would be no one fighting for it with Joannie anyway. But if it comes down to Osmond vs Joannie, I'm all for Joannie.
     
  11. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Now ubering Machida's hair

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    I was rally impress with Z/G at skate America - since I am quarter German I will rooting for the German team :p.

    I think the team event has great potential as an Olympic event, but the format may need to be tweaked. It will be interesting to see how skaters who do all 4 skates do. Maybe they will be doing singles for the gala...
     
  12. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Searching for Cizeron's Instagram

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    If russian no.2 pair team is better than US, Japan , Canada and France/Italy's no.1 pair team. Russia can very easily sub V/t with no.2 russian pair team for the LP. At the moment B/L can very beat all of the other teams. Hence this is an option for them. B/L will be happy to skate the 100% for a chance to win gold medal which they are very unlikely to do in pairs
     
  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I love Z/G at Skate America, too.

    A potentially big issue for the teams is that in the 2012 ISU Special Regulations document, Rule 400-A-5 was added:

    Rule 378, paragraph 3 states,

    *Rule 107 1-9 lists the valid speed skating events, ISU Championships, Olympic Games, Youth Olympic Games, Grand Prix/Final, World Team Trophy, and defines non-ISU junior and senior International competitions (at least one foreign member invited, entry through members only, at least two members must participate, all the ISU rules apply, TV rights need ISU sign-off).

    **Article 38 7 lists where the details are found for each type of competition.​

    Communication 1742, which announced this year's minimum scores, overrode the preliminary rounds, set different minimums for Worlds vs. Euros/4C's, and overrode the "no minimums for Jr. Worlds" the ISU Constitution document, citing Article 17.1.q (i.e., The-ISU-Council-Can-Do-Whatever-We-Want rule):

    For next season's minimum score announcement, they could set the Olympic TES minimums anywhere on the scale, or decide not to impose them. If they want a full field and especially not have mud on their face WRT the new team event, the latter is a distinct possibility, because to get the fields big enough within both the existing qualifying process and TES minimums, the Olympics TES minimums might have to be lower than Worlds TES minimums. If I were the IOC, I'd be shaking my head over that. (Or the Worlds TES minimums would have to be lowered to allow more skaters, which would defeat the purpose of setting them high in the first place.)

    If they keep high TES minimums, it's possible that they'll end up with even more teams skating only three disciplines, because where a skater in a discipline didn't qualify, they could only be appointed if they met the minimum TES score rule. Alternately, they could pull a GP-like ruling and say that only individual event participants have to make the minimums, but appointed team members don't.
     
  14. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    [American/Canadian Team Leader]I completely agree. B&L with all that pressure on them to very beat all of the other teams will very beat all of the other teams. V&T should definitely *not* enter the team event so they can win pairs gold.[/American/Canadian Team Leader]
     
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  15. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Searching for Cizeron's Instagram

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    They should enter rye team event and share SP. this will be important for Russia since it gives them a chance to build up a leaf over US, Canada and Japan. The aim of Russia should be to put as many teams between them and Canada and US in the SP. then for LP sub V/T with B/L, that is only if B/L still have advantage over rest of the teams still in competition.
     
  16. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Honestly, unless there is a miracle of sorts on the US team -- i.e. Abbott's on the team, and he skates to his full potential -- or everyone else cracks under pressure, I don't think RUS or CAN has to worry about USA, especially with a healthy Plushenko (assuming he is skating). I can only hope RUS sends a Man who can get in the top 10 to earn two spots in London.

    I think RUS and CAN are going to be duking it out for gold and silver.
     
  17. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    Depending on how Duhamel/Radford fare leading up to the O's (if they've managed to crack the top 3 in majors), they should be all over it too.

    But I also think that Canadian pairs would be Canada's best time to use 2 entries. While D/R are a bit closer to cracking the podium, Moore-Towers/Moskovich aren't too far behind them. So splitting it between them could make good sense.

    I could also see splitting it upsetting some skaters though. If one team bombs their program and the other goes lights out, it could be really easy to play the blame game.
     
  18. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    In other events (swimming relays, gymnastics), do countries enter different competitors in different segements so that those individuals also have a chance to get an Olympic medal?

    I miss 2000 as well. :p
     
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  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Since the SP/SD is a qualifier in the new team event, the answer is: absolutely. In the swimming and track relays, there are more than four on the team, and some team members may swim in the first quali heats , but not in the finals, usually because the star(s) of the team has individual events close or concurrently, and they don't want to wear that person (or people) out. (Once in a while, they perform different roles in the first two heats and then take on another in the final, too, like anchoring the qualis and running second leg in the finals.) They get medals just like the team members that finished 1, 2, or 3. Every once in a while there's a heart-warming story about a champion who insisted that someone take his or her place in one of the early rounds, so that person could get a medal, even though it wouldn't have been a schedule/stamina issue to run or swim in earlier heats.

    ETA: Example, in the Men's 4x100 swimming relay in London, the French team in the qualis was Leveaux, Bernard, Lefert, Stravius, and the French team in the finals was Leveaux, Gilot, Lefert, Agnel.

    In team gymnastics, specialists are chosen because they are that much better than everyone else in their event, and it's worth putting them on the team, even if there are other better all-around gymnasts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  20. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    It will be fascinating to see the strategy unfold in this team event.
     
  21. starryxskies

    starryxskies New Member

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    The difference with strategy here is that countries don't have as large of a pool of athletes to choose from as say swimming. The US swim team has everyone to choose from because they are all relatively tight with each other's times. And they have different strokes/distance they specialize in that their greatness incomparable (compared to FS' wholesome nature). A key difference with swimming is as the relays are a category in itself, some swimmers just swim the relays with no individual events. Which is not prohibited in FS. Also, the qualifiers with swimming simply qualifies the team into the finals and the slate is clean for the final swimmers.

    The SP "qualifiers" in FS make a difference. If a country has a bad SP, that's it. The deficit to make up for is sometimes just too large. The difference between a country's number 1 and 2 skaters are generally way way off by like 30pts so there's not much leeway there to switch. They would have to take the gymnastics strategy with little to no choice in strategy and just go with the better one for both.

    I would have to say most of the strategies will be predictable for most countries' disciplines but it'll still be interesting to see if the popular vote is correct. There's no more than 2 handfuls of countries that are blessed with skaters that are on each other's back with points and abilities and are within top 5 of their discipline. Canada's pairs, Russia's pairs & dance, Japan's men, US men, Japan's ladies, I guess France's men ....although Flo would be the clear winner for consistency over Brian I would think. I think these are the only ones where strategy would make a difference.
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    There are plenty of differences, the main one being the concept of clean slate, but that wasn't the question, The question was whether a team would let someone the other segment to have a chance at a medal, and there are, although, most of the time, that person is filling a role. Strategizing who will skate the first phase to accommodate the schedule and wishes of the member(s) who have a great chance for an individual medal in another event is where the Team skating event could very well have a lot in common with swimming and track, even if the slate is not wiped clean after the SD.

    In quali heats for track and swimming, the top teams almost always rise to the equation and make the finals. Some of the middle teams do and some don't. The clean slate aspect is important in these sports, but that doesn't preclude poor performance(s) or a bad pass-off that mars the race, and these things can be huge because the times are so close.

    Of course, if they don't qualify for the final five, that's it, just as if they don't qualify for the final in another sport. However, one think that mitigates having a bad SP is the placement system: they're not using totals, only placement points. If the US Pair is expected to place behind whatever RUS or CAN Pair who skates, plus GER if S/S skate and CHN if P/T skate, then it only matters which Pair beats B/H (ITA), K/K (GBR, if GBR makes it), P/Z if P/T don't skate, V/V if S/S don't skate, J/C (FRA) (assumes JPN doesn't have a Pair.) C/S, for example, might beat B/H, K/K, J/C (and V/V and/or P/Z) as well as D/C, and if they lose a point or two to CHN, FRA, and/or ITA, it might not make that much of a difference to USA's medal hopes.

    That's always true, including team relays in other sports.

    Of the eight teams most likely to qualify for the finals -- RUS, CAN, USA, ITA, JPN, FRA, CHN -- plus GBR and GER -- this all depends on how the minimum scores are set (if they are) and whether they apply to appointed skaters -- the countries and disciplines where the Top 2 are separated by 30 points are:

    ITA, Ladies, Kostner and Marchei, Dance (C/L and G/F), Pairs (B/H, DM/G)
    GER, Pairs, S/S and V/V.
    CAN, Men, Chan and Reynolds. Possibly Ladies if Osmond earns two spots and Rochette doesn't come back and have an injury flare-up after the Team event.
    CHN, Pairs, 22pts in their head-to-head competition, P/T and P/Z, but this is P/Z's first year, and if they improve, I'd expect that gap to start to close by Sochi.
    USA, Dance. 26 points between D/W and the Shibs, which might as well be 50 in Ice Dance.
    FRA, Dance. P/B and whoever is next, hopefully juniors P/C.

    ITA is the only country where there is a big gap in more than one discipline; in ITA's case, in all disciplines where a very strong skater/team ensures as second entry.

    Gachinski's SB last season was only 15 points lower than Plushenko's. Kovtun looks like the early front-runner, if a Russian man even earns two spots in London, which Kovtun has a chance of doing, and even Menshov. (His scores are slightly lower than Menshov's, but Jr. competition has one fewer jump element.) This is only an issue if the RUS man in London makes Top 10. If Plushenko really doesn't want to skate both SP and FS, he's probably lighting a candle or two for this to happen.

    Of the teams that are likely to have two or three, the total scores between the top two aren't close to 30 points:
    RUS, Pairs (V/T and B/L or K/S), Ladies (Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova, Leonova), Dance (B/S, I/K)
    CAN, Pairs (D/R, M/T-M), Dance (V/M, W/P)
    USA, Men (Abbott, Miner, Rippon, Dornbush, Farris), Ladies (Wagner, Gao, Gold, Nagasu -- so far this year, the last three are within 15 points of Wagner's top score and within five points of Wagner's lowest score), Pairs (D/C and C/S, within five points until Coughlin's injury).
    CHN, Men (Yan, Song) and Ladies (Geng, Li). (They'll likely have one in Dance)
    JPN, Men (Takahashi, Hanyu, Kozuka, Oda), Ladies (Asada, Suzuki). They'll have one in Dance.
    FRA, Men (Amodio, Joubert), Ladies, were they to earn two in London (Meite, Silete), Pairs, if J/C sneak into the Top 10 (J/C, P/M, if she's a citizen by then).

    GBR is unlikely to have more than one in any discipline. Were CZE to make it, they'd have two only in Men, and the way Verner has been skating lately, there's close enough to a 30-point gap. Were GER to earn two in Dance, juniors Koch/Nuechtern are right at Z/G's heels. (I think one of them ages out of junior after this season.)

    There are no more than two handfuls of countries that will make it to the team event, and only a handful of them will make it in to final. To be evenly matched, two skaters/teams don't have to be in the Top 5 in the World: they just have to be evenly matched, whether that's 200 vs. 195 points or 127 vs. 122 points.

    There are many other strategies to think of, such as: if a team is unlikely to make it into the final, like GER, I think it would depend on whether S/S want a warm-up. If a team makes it into the final, but is unlikely to medal, they can easily skate their second skater/team in the FS. There's also the issue of placements and who else skates, who wants the warm-up and early comparisons and who doesn't. It's a very different ballgame if V/M and D/W decide to skate the FD, and W/P and S/S dance the SD. It likely won't matter if USA and CAN lose a few SD placement points points to FRA in the SD, because FRA is unlikely to challenge either for a medal, given weaknesses in two disciplines. If it's the same technical team and judges, they might sit back and see how P/B are scored. If P/B don't skate 1. It's unlikely for FRA to make the final, and maybe FRA doesn't care unless both Joubert and Amodio want a warm-up, although they'd be nuts not to give deference to P/B's wishes (whatever they are), because they are far more likely to medal than either Joubert or Amodio and 2. Then W/P battle it out with whichever RUS team skates, and the Shibs could skate the FD later, because they only teams to which they'd lose are CAN, RUS, and ITA. (It's unlikely they'd lose to the Reeds or Huang/Zheng). CAN and RUS are likely to win gold and silver anyway, and ITA isn't a medal threat against USA.

    Also, where the two skaters/teams are relatively balanced evenly, the difference in the SP/SD might be a lot smaller than the difference in the FS/FD and total score. One skater/team might have more competitive technical content, like a 3/3 in the SP, but falter in the FS. Hanyu, for example has two WRs this year in the SP, but Takahashi has been stronger in the FS. One skater might be in contention and not want to open the Team event in the SD/SP, to put themselves at a disadvantage before the individual events, but wait to see how things pan out. After the SD/SP, Feds might want to give different skaters/teams the FD/FS as a warm-up, if the change is unlikely to impact the medal results. The two Feds likely fighting for the gold might see different strengths in practice or in competition and decide to make a change to maximize their chances for gold. One skater's/team's SP might be more rewarded all year round or be less risky.

    There's plenty of strategy to go around.
     
  23. starryxskies

    starryxskies New Member

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    Oh my goodness. I would ask for a tl;dr version but it kept me busy while I'm currently super idle at work, so thank you ;)
    No need to take the 30pts part very literal. It was seriously just a random number off the top of my head to make my exaggeration point. I was having Chan vs Reynolds in my head as I was making that up. Skate Canada would be crazy to get Reynolds to follow or precede Chan. He'll create too big of a SP deficit for Chan to make up to get a good final placement (to get 10 or 9 points) and he won't be able to hold on to the momentum after Chan's SP lead to keep those 10 or 9 points that Chan would've gotten on his own. That's my main point.

    I would group the 15pts category as the same message I was trying to convey as well. For example, US ladies, Wagner is way ahead of Mirai, Gao or Gold right now. If they were to switch, I would say the same thing as I said with Chan/Reynolds. They won't be able to get the placement points that Wagner would be able to get if she were to skate both SP/FS alone. Of course, anything can happen (broken boots, injury) but just as a casual observation at this point in time. So I guess I should reword myself and say if the Federations are looking to garner the highest possible placement points that they realistically can, most countries' disciplines won't have much strategy room especially with tight disciplines like mens and ladies (I'll be completely honest and say pairs bore me atm and I don't give a quarter of my attention to pairs at all but speaking from what I saw at GPF, the spread of points weren't too far off, though I know the Russians got this in the bag) Unless Feds hire a data management analyst and match up all the possibilities of points they can get from each discipline and total it against all the possibilities of their main competitors. Something like, "ok we put our #3 skater to skate FS to maximize our chances at Ladies gold with our #1 so we lose 3 points here and get 7 points but we win this disciplines with 10 full points.....Therefore, we will beat Canada their their max possibility of points" Yeah sure there's tons of strategy if we get mathematical that way. But that's outright gambling and we all know the odds to that, especially with a sport like figure skating where results of tight disciplines all depend on whether a skater is "on" that day - no dependent variables at all. I guess with the exception of PCS with a 5pt variance - where every single FS argument disputes from. But please don't quote and write an essay on this.

    I'm really only considering strategies to get to the podium for countries that are in reach of it. I barely consider GER using the team event as a practice field, a strategy.
    I apologize for not being clear when I was talking about 2 handfuls, I was splitting up the countries with their disciplines. With the countries and their disciplines I named in my previous posts, that's already more than 1 handful.
     
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    The point is not even whether Wagner is 15 points ahead of Nagasu or Gold or Gao. The question is where would Wagner place? If she goes into next season as a world medalist and is strong throughout the GP season, all things being equal, it's a no-brainer to put her in the SP, if that won't impact her individual event. On the other hand, if she's behind Kim, Kostner, Suzuki, Asada, and Tuktamysheva -- and that assumes Leonova won't be back to strength -- in London after the SP, and they run a scenario where JPN, RUS, and ITA are ahead of USA after the SP, then they only need a Lady who'll beat Meite, a lady from GER, probably Li, Osmond, and McCorkell, and whichever Lady the 10th team is from. It doesn't matter which US lady comes in 4th, and it probably doesn't matter in the long run if the US Lady comes in 2nd or 5th, since the US in not likely to be in contention for gold with RUS and CAN. In the FS, the strength in the US team at this point is Wagner.

    The whole team event is going to be most interesting for Ladies and Dance, the last two disciplines, where in any other year, they could take their time getting there. If they are skating in the Team event, they have to start a week early, and some of them will be on call, not knowing until 10 minutes after the SP/SD are completed to find out if they're skating.

    The majority of disciplines in which the country is a medal contender -- CAN, RUS, then USA, then potential dark horse FRA -- the skaters/teams are either very close -- RUS Pairs, Dance, Ladies, USA Men, Pairs, CAN Pairs, FRA Pairs, Ladies, Men -- or close enough that it's a matter of very few placement points that make other tactical and strategic choices come into play. There are only a few, like Chan/Reynolds, P/B and FRA #2, D/W and the Shibs, and Kostner/Marchei where there's likely to be a spread of 3 or more points, and that's only if all of the Feds put their top guns in everything. They may or they may not, considering health, skater's preferences, and/or how much they take the potential impact on the individual events into consideration.
     
  25. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    In swimming relays, they do it. Generally it is done in order to avoid wearing out the stars but also because, in swimming, you get 6 entries in the 100 and 200 free (so your two individual events and 4 extra) so you might as well use them. It isn't usually to get those people a medal but because it isn't that hard for the top relay countries to qualify without tiring out their best swimmers. In Gymnastics, no. It's not really the same situation because all of the gymnastics athletes must be on the team so you wouldn't enter anyone in different segments. And with only four team members, no one can afford dead weight.

    The big difference between swimming and skating is that the scores will carry over in skating. If the US, for example, only needed to qualify in the top 5, it would make sense for them to send the Shibs and their second lady to the SP to give Ashley and D&W a break as their best medal hopes (as of right now). But since the scores carry over, the US (and every other team) will not be just trying to qualify in the SP but trying to get as many points as they can.
     
  26. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    Was Japan hoping at one time for Mervin Tran to obtain Japanese citizenship? And now that Takahashi and Tran have split, does the Japanese Federation have a plan to get a pair together and in shape in just over one year? I've looked over the Japanese National results on wikipedia back to 2006-07 and T & T are the only senior pairs team Japan has ever had.
     
  27. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I think they must have some plan because the split apparently came from her, and everyone seem to assume that she was pushed into it by her skating Federation. If they indeed pushed her into it, one would think that there is a plan in place.
     
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  28. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    Not that it does any good for Sochi, but T&T aren't the only senior pair team Japan's ever had. Yuko Kawaguchi competed for Japan with her then partner Alexander Markuntsov, must have been early 2000. Japan also entered a pair in their home Olympics Nagano 1998. I don't remember their names, but they were very cute, though not so skilled, and I believe only put together for that particular event.
     
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I'm sure the Federation official(s) lobbying for an exception for Tran were hoping T/T would be able to skate, but even without them, the qualification criteria guarantees that JPN will be included. I think that two of the spots will come down to within a couple of placement points after the SP/SD round, and that if JPN can field a Pairs team, they'll be in a stronger position to do so. Not every country in the Top 10 will have a Pairs team necessarily, and, for example, last place in a field of nine gets two points for finishing the SP.

    The other advantage to a Takahashi/new Japanese partner is that they can qualify, like Peng/Zhang, for two GP's as a "Split couple.". The GP part would be true with any eligible partner (ie someone who hasn't competed for another country this season), but I'm assuming she wants an Olympic-eligible partner.
     
  30. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    They did but where told that Mervin Tran was very unlikely to get Japanese citizenship considering he never resided in Japan, and that there had never been any exception before so they didn't see how they could make an exception in this case. And in an official announcement following shortly that of T/T's separation, they said they hoped to form a new pair with her as soon as she was ready to resume training