Tamar Katz: An Olympic Qualifier, but Not in Israel’s Eyes (article)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    New York Times article today: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/sports/olympics/30olympics.html
    Jan. 19, 2010 NY Times article on the Zaretskys that also mentions the Katz situation: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/sports/olympics/19skate.html
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    The story has also been picked up by the Israeli media, which usually ignores skating. There's a Facebook group as well, and it looks like she's gotten some support from other skaters.

    Katz does have a shot at reversing this decision - there was an Israeli swimmer who managed to get a ticket to Beijing at the last moment, after many appeals. I hope she will be able to skate in Vancouver. She won't finish in the top half, but she earned her spot and deserves to go.
  3. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    I really hope that she can go, she has qualified on her own right.
  4. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    edit
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  5. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    i hate when federations do this to their athletes.
  6. bek

    bek Guest

    Aww they should let her go. Its an accomplishment to even earn a spot at the Olympics.
  7. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

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    She's a very good quality skater (eh...aside from the jumps) and I'd love to see her participate in Vancouver.
  8. footwork

    footwork New Member

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    I bet Naomi Syken must be doing a happy dance !
  9. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thanks for the article, very unfair (IMO) not to let her skate. And per Katz's statement (and I don't think she would place last either), but honestly, what would be the big deal (from the federation p.o.v.) if Katz does end up in last place?
    I mean obviously federations want their skaters to do well, but I don't see what the big deal would be to send her to the Olympics.
  10. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Despite what the article said, I do wonder if this isn't a money thing. From what I understand, most Olympic sports are severely underfunded in Israel, and I think that's particularly the case for women's sports. If so, allocating very scarce resources could require some tough choices being made.

    On a separate note, I didn't understand why Katz would say this:
    I don't believe Katz has every cracked the top 20 in a Worlds competition. I'm not sure why she thinks she could do that at the Olympics with a less-than-best skate.
  11. mazzy

    mazzy Active Member

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    Costs can be an issue, for example. Many countries' NOCs have some additional internal criteria which have to apply to all olympic sports. If they send Katz now, they may have to also send a plethora of swimmers/runners/rowers etc. in 2012 who will have qualified by the international bodies' rules but will just be not have any chance to compete. Depending on how much money the Israeli NOC has, this might be of serious concern.
  12. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thanks for the explanation. :)
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Ah poor Jenna Syken, who never actually competed at any competition. :p :violin:

    As for Tamar, she didn't manage to place 20th at Euros, with a skate much better than her usual bombfest, I wonder how she thinks she could easily do so at Olympics.
  14. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Katz said she had a viral infection a couple weeks before Euros so was off the ice for two weeks before competing--that's why she says she placed so badly. Thing is she really hasn't progressed in the standings over the years, and in fact has gone down the past two or three. To me it looks like she has already peaked and will likely not do better than she already has.

    Now, in an Olympic year some top competitors sit out Worlds afterwards, and if that happens this year she may move up a bit from the twenty-somethings. But without people sitting out, I don't see her moving up in the standings at all.
  15. reckless

    reckless Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it really matters where she will place. She earned the spot. Isn't the Olympic spirit about competing and representing your country in the eyes of the rest of the world?

    I can't believe the costs are that great. Housing is in the Olympic village; I suspect the clothing for the opening ceremonies is sponsored; and there are probably sources for skating-specific costs like practice ice. I would bet, with the publicity, that a sponsor or sponsors would probably help her fulfill her Olympic dream.
  16. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    I was only commenting on her statement in the article that she was sure even with a subpar performance on her part that she would place in the top 20 at the Olympics.

    I'm guessing part of the costs associated with going to the Olympics is security. I believe the Mossad or Shin Bet accompanies all Israeli competitors--not sure who picks up the tab for that.
  17. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't she injured for almost all of last season, though? I don't think she'll ever contend for the top ten (well, maybe at Euros ;)) but she's not bad.
  18. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying she's bad at all--just that, for whatever reason, her place in international standings has dropped over the past 2-3 years. She's never been in the top 20 at Worlds ever, and she's gone from placing 13 at Euros in 2007 to 21 this year. She never did better at Euros than in 2007. In 2006 she placed 2 at Golden Spin, but in 2009 she placed 5 at the same comp.

    I can't think of any instance where her standings have improved from 2006-7. That doesn't make her a bad skater at all. It may mean she's peaked though.
  19. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I vote for letting her go (not that anyone cares what I think :lol:). This is probably her last opportunity for her to represent her country in the Olympics. Even if she finished last, so what? Someone has to finish last anyway.
  20. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

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    Well I would say Tamar deserved to be in the top 20. How that piece-of-dog-crap-on-ice Gozeva was ahead of her in the SP is completely beyond me...
  21. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Gozeva did a 3lz combo and Katz singled her lz combo attempt, landed badly, and got virtually zero points for it. That's why.
  22. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

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    But Tamar had nice spirals! :wuzrobbed :violin:
  23. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    She didn't earn the spot if the rule is that she had to finish in the top 14 at Europeans - regardless of whether or not you agree with the rule.
  24. Eden

    Eden Well-Known Member

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    Shin Bet.
  25. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you that ;)
    Thanks

    Do you know if the Israeli Olympic Committee is responsible for any security related costs for its athletes?
  26. Eden

    Eden Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome!

    Not 100% sure here, but I believe that the hosting country is responsible for security costs of all the athletes including those who require more security.

    BTW, Both Athens and Beijing games used Israeli experts for security arrangements.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  27. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

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    Katz wuzrobbed of a medal at Europeans :p
    With the overall abysmal level, a good skate from her should have landed her on the podium. But she got dumped in the SP for being inconsistent. As a fact, last season she was 25th in the SP at Worlds while being completely out of shape, so top 20 is definitely a very realistic goal.

    I also think she's a very good package, she has all the triples, Sasha Cohenish spirals and spins, and she's fast across the ice. I honestly think that what holds her down is the nationality and the lack of consistency, so the judges don't give her the full credit even on the rare occasions when she skates well.

    Anyway, GOOOO Katz, and I'm completely :blah: over the stupid Israeli OC that manages to send 20 officials, but can't find a spot for the athletes who have earned their place otherwise. And it's not only Katz, the same applies to the summer athletes as well, Dudi Sela being the most obvious. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to the Israeli bureaucracy.
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Oh god, Gozeva so shouldn't have qualified.

    I guess as Agalisgv said, because she managed to rotate her jumps she made it through. Meh. :/
  29. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    Tamara qualified Israel for the Olympics under the regulations of her competing category. Tusk she earned her country a spot in Vancouver.

    But the spot isn't hers. Israel can send anyone they think is the most fit in that category.

    This only explains this situation, but it still sucks. Olympics is THE competition with slogan that it is about participating and representing your country, not winning.
  30. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    Anyways, here is the IOC data
    The Israeli Olympic Committee can be contacted at:
    The Olympic Committee of Israel can be reached at nocil@nocil.co.il
    Phone, +972 3 649 8385. Fax, +972 3 649 8395

    am clueless whether emailing/calling/faxing can change anything, but since right now the status is "not going" it can't hurt Tamar's chances anyway.

    email/fax away:)
  31. SwingDancer

    SwingDancer New Member

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    I sent an email to pushkin!!!

    Tamar deserves to skate in Vancouver!!1

    I also sent a compassion filled email to the Israeli IOC listed above
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  32. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    Sent an email to the above email address, hope everyone's emails will make a difference.
  33. pattern99skts

    pattern99skts New Member

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    It is so distressing to think that everything revolves around politics. Why not be proud of their athlete. Tamar should go.:encore:
  34. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Wow, this is very heartless of the Israeli federation to have a rule like that. I hope they listen to appeals and then change the rule.
  35. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    Many countries which are not as competitive as the US have requirements like Israel...if their requirement is to place in the top 14 at Worlds in order to be sent to the Olympics, then that is what it is! Some people may not like the rules, but they are what they are. It isn't like Tamar actually would place in the top 20 at Olympics. She will bring nothing to Israel if she goes to the Olympics, so why should they send money on letting her go?

    I also assume the situation would PERHAPS (and I do say, perhaps) be a little bit different if Tamar hadn't trained in the US most of her life. I have spoken to Tamar a long time ago, and perhaps her reasons have changed, but as she was telling it then, the reason she is skating for Israel rather than the US, is because there is more international opportunity for her if she skates for them. She would not be 3-time National champion if she were skating for the US. You also do have to realize that skating federations are not idiots, and do know when they are being a "last resort" for skaters who want international experience. Now, if these skaters bring results, both parties win. But if the skater is turning to said federation for a trip to the Olympics when she has no chance to win anything, and trains year-round in the US since she was 15 years old anyway, what does Israel get out of it? I don't think many people would care if they sent a girl who trains and lives year-round most of her life in the US to the Olympics, especially if she didn't bring back anything.

    If she is unhappy with being unable to go, she should focus on bettering her skating so she can place in the top 14 at Worlds next time. It isn't like it is the fault of the Israeli Skating Federation if she bombs at competitions.
  36. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  37. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    Will Tamar have her chance to compete at Worlds? I hope so! :encore:
  38. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    In the end she basically proved the federation right not to send her; she didn't even place top 20 at Worlds, doubt she would have done better at the Olympics. I think her placement is fine, but she shoudn't boast about what placement she can achieve and then use that as a reason for wanting to be sent to a competition, if she can't deliver the results she promised.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/CAT002RS.HTM
    Frau Muller and (deleted member) like this.
  39. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    tangerine_dream, according to the world placement Meier and Karademir should had not been sent to the Olympics either. What's your point?
  40. Quintuple

    Quintuple papillon d'amour

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    Not commenting on if the federation *should* have sent her, but she did say in the original article that she could place Top 20 without even skating her best. So ... if she was giving that as a reason as to why to send her ... she didn't really deliver on her hypothetical qualification.