Takahashi & Tran split

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Mevrouw, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    They are listed in the starting order for Canadians (just published). Glad to see it, and hope they are healthy.
  2. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Not that it matters what I think, but I would prefer to see Tran with a younger partner with less baggage. Given the pairs in Canada, 2014 is out for a new pair, but 2018 is certainly doable. That would give the partnership 5 years to prepare and build a reputation.
  3. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    I love Mervin Tran. Hopefully he finds a new partner ASAP.
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Yes, I understand all that. My point is that he didn't turn down a Canadian Pairs partner to skate for Japan instead -- either as a newbie or someone in whom Skate Canada had invested -- so there should be no hard feelings from Skate Canada, which is what I though skatinginbc was suggesting.

    World and Olympic medalist Canadian Pairs men are, and it would be silly not to find a way to make it work.

    Presumably having not received funding from Skate Canada, there will be no change in his funding from Skate Canada, but he won't have his training subsidized by the Japanese Federation. Whether he can afford to continue in Pairs without finding a partner who subsidizes him is another issue.
  5. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    Skate Canada might be silly enough not to do what it take to make it work, but I'm sure that Richard Gauthier and Bruno Marcotte will do what it takes to find him a worthy partner and make it work. I submit the case of Duhamel/Radford as evidence of that. Skate Canada didn't seem to realize what a gem they had in Eric Radford, and seemed quite ready to let him go off into retirement as a partnerless pairs skater after his season with Anne-Marie Giroux. Richard Gauthier and Bruno Marcotte, on the other hand, saw his potential (and also realized Duhamel's potential), and insisted that Duhamel/Radford try out together.

    (At least that's my conclusion based on comments from Duhamel/Radford interviews in which they tallk about their beginnings as a pair team).
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  6. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Skate Canada takes a passive role in the pairing up of pairs and ice dance teams. It was very well detailed in "The Second Mark", the book about the 2002 pairs event. In Canada, it's up to the skaters and their coaches to take the initiative. I don't know why it should be any other way.
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  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    You are absolutely right. Skate Canada could make lemonade into the white, pithy parts of lemons. Gauthier and Marcotte, though, are amazing at what they do and what they see.
  8. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and I would assume it's the same in the USA. (Correct me if I'm mistaken.)
  9. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    a bummer, they were very promising skaters
    calling Tran for USA now
  10. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    The US would certainly benefit, but I don't see why he'd want to put himself into another situation where citizenship is an issue. He should be looking to 2018, and the clearest way would be through Canada. Not to mention he's in a relationship with Amelie Lacoste and unlikely to wish to relocate from Montreal, especially if he's been happy with Gauthier/Marcotte.
  11. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    I'd say about a year is a reasonable time frame. Morgan Cipres switched from male singles to partner Vanessa James around September 2010 - they didn't compete at all that season, but in the 2011-12 season they finished 6th at Europeans and 15th at Worlds.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TKp47mM8tRg
    This is an exhibition they did after about 4 months together, to give you an idea of the rate of progression.

    If Narumi could find a Japanese guy willing to switch to pairs within the next month or so, I think there would be a reasonable chance they could be ready for next season. Nowhere near the level she was at with Mervin of course, but enough to at least complete the pair elements.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  12. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget that Morgan Cipres was a junior single skater, so one could assume that if Narumi found a senior single partner, it could be slightly quicker.
  13. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I'm of the opinion that there will be a line up of available Canadian women who would love a try-out with him. The sooner the better.
  14. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    Do we know if they need to meet the TES minimum to compete in the team event only?

    And possibly one that is a little more lively...
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  15. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    If we're only going for a little more lively, I think the good majority of pairs girls would qualify :shuffle:
  16. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    Hm, that gave me a crazy idea: Amelie switching to pair skating. Will her height (5'1'') be a problem?
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly my sentiment.

    Beautiful team. Best constructed programs hands down, always well presented. They will be missed. :(

    I wonder whether Takahashi already has somebody lined up or whether given she is out for a year anyway, she is going to search for other partners.
  18. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    Maintain low standards and you will never be disappointed!
  19. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    No, they don't need the TES minimum for the team event.
  20. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Where did you read that they don't need the TES minimum for the team event?
  21. Manaud

    Manaud New Member

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    Jessica is supposed to be with Wolfe still, though they have been very mysterious about why they have not been competing...other than getting a slow start
  22. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I think Jessica is too big for Tran. Fell sad for Narumi and Marvin - they was great to watch team and they was so on in Nice.
    I think it will be hard for Marvin to find new patner. becasue he isnt tall enough :(
  23. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I was interpreting the rule that if a nation qualifies a team to the event without qualifying a corresponding skater in a specific discipline, they would still get to file an entry in that discipline for the team event only. I assumed not qualifying meant in both senses (not making the spots at Worlds or the designated senior B; not having a skater meet the Worlds minimum).
  24. emilieh

    emilieh Active Member

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    I believe that Lacoste tried pairs skating a few years back. I want to say that she went to France, though I can't remember who she was with. I don't believe she liked skating pairs.
  25. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it would be different with her significant other? ;) That said, I'd be surprised if she wanted to switch to pairs this late in her career.

    Of the skaters suggested in this thread, my choice would be Natasha Purich. Young, tiny, talented, consistent triple toe and triple sal, and already trains with Bruno and Richard. She doesn't have the same elegance that Narumi did (Natasha's style is more perky) but could develop more in time. If that can't work out, there were number of other female pair skaters that I really liked from last year's Canadians and Challenge who are now partnerless - Julianne Seguin, Andrea Tou, Noemie Arsenault, Alexie Gelinas. But I'm not sure if any of the last three are still skating, and Julianne seems to be concentrating on singles. Even if they are interested, there are some drawbacks...Alexie and Andrea might both be too tall for Mervin and Julianne's lack of flexibility is a problem in the lifts.

    Not a fan of the Jessica Dube suggestion. Mervin is still young, I'd like to see him with another younger skater who has got some attack and fight in her. I also agree that Jessica is too tall for Mervin.
  26. Rock2

    Rock2 New Member

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    Purich is the right choice. I think Daleman would be an awesome match but she's got a great career in singles ahead of her and that doesn't happen enough in Canadian ladies, so we can't mess with that.

    I'm told Chartrand is stronger than she looks so she could be a wild card if she's interested. But as we all know, the girl has to have a pairs mentality to make it work too (ie fearless)

    I do like Arcieri. I think in time they could develop well. But, if they don't have a kick butt nationals and JWs I'm sure she'll be tempted to make the change. They're both in Montreal, too. Too easy. And with the points they'd both have and the dearth of strong pairs entries out there globally they'd probably end up on the senior GP next fall. Just sayin...
  27. Rock2

    Rock2 New Member

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    ...and please...no more talk about Dube...for any reason...unless she announces her retirement. I have to say this girl could have really gone places in either singles or pairs. She has great skating skills and line...and can present herself very well if she puts her mind to it. I also feel bad for all the bumps she's taken along the way. But for whatever reason she didn't fulfill her potential. Full stop. It's over.

    Lots to be excited about in all Canadian disciplines and a good group of younguns coming up. We can all now move on.
  28. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Under the current GP precedent, Tran and partner would get two assignments next season as a split couple because he placed in the Top 6 at 2012 Worlds. I wrote precedent, not rule, because the ISU left Split Couples out of this years GP Announcement -- they only address Returning Split Couples, who placed 7-12 in the last two WC's -- but Peng/Zhang, based on his 2011 Worlds results, received two off the bat.

    I think this is a stretch, but it is possible that they will explicitly state in next year's TES minimums announcement that there will be no minimums for the appointed skaters or for the Olympics at all.
  29. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    That would only work if he and his new partner represented Japan. If he and his new partner don't represent Japan, he will have to sit out a year, won't he?
  30. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    He is already sitting out this year...
  31. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    True, I didn't realise that they didn't do GP events.
  32. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    They had to pull from everything this season, due to her injury. Their last international event was World Team Trophy in April 2012.

    There's nothing in the documentation so far that says split couples have to compete for the same country as they did with old partners. I don't know if there's an IOC rule that forbids an athlete from competing if s/he's competed internationally for another country; if there is, the rule may not apply equally to all members of a team.
  33. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Athletes switch countries all the time. AFAIK, the only rules are (1) citizenship in the country the athlete represents and (2) eligibility under the applicable rules of the pertinent national and international federations. In Tran's case, this prevented him from representing Japan but won't prevent hm from representing Canada. All he needs is a partner, money, and a sufficiently high placement at Canadians in 2014. Of course, that's easier said than done, but it's a lot easier than becoming a Japanese citizen when you have never lived in Japan.
  34. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Yes, they do switch, but I remember hearing some explanation during Athletics about a wait-out period to prevent "buying" athletes. (The ISU has a provision in Rule 109 about reserving the right to disallow the same, not just for the Olympics.). I'm just not sure what those rules are orif they've changed over the years.

    ETA: The Kindle app is working again, so I could open up the Olympic Charter. The seemingly relevant part is the Chapter 41 bylaw:

    There were some references on the net to a two-year waiting period for the Winter Olympics, but that may have been specific to 1992 to 1994 to alter the Olympics from concurrent to alternating.

    The scenario in the OC is when an athlete holds dual citizenship, but not specifically if the athlete competes for a country for which s/he doesn't have citizenship. However, this may apply, if it refers to the IF championships.

    It doesn't apply to anyone who gets a new citizenship after competing for the country under his or her old one. There's no waiting period there, but that doesn't apply to Tran.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  35. CantALoop

    CantALoop Well-Known Member

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    Would this have anything to do with the recent Japanese election in which there was a major shift in the balance of power? I remember that one of Japan's political parties supported the case of expediting Tran's citizenship.
  36. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

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    IIRC, it was the LDP that supported citizenship for Tran, and they just won the election.

    I think this breakup will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. I imagine that if Tran had somehow gotten Japanese citizenship, he would have had to renounce his Canadian citizenship which could have caused him all sorts of headaches in his later life after skating. I'm excited for him and his chances with any number of the possible partners mentioned here (my choice would be Purich)
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  37. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    On a slightly lighter note, Mervin Tran tweeted this today:

    https://twitter.com/skate_moivo
  38. Rock2

    Rock2 New Member

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    Wow, he has a 3Z and 3F?? Yikes...
    Daleman and Tran would be wicked.

    I'm so 50-50 on that because I'd want to see her kick some hiney in singles. She and Osmond could start qualifying 3 women for Worlds sometime in the next cycle (yes, I'm getting so ahead of myself...leave me alone...heh)
  39. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    So since Mervin isn't a fan of the loop, that would rule out Amelie as a partner (not that she's likely interested in pairs anyway, but that would be the nail in the coffin).
  40. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Work toward the iron lotus, oh boy. Best of luck to both Mervin and Narumi.