Takahashi & Tran split

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Mevrouw, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Narumi Takahashi will have to go skate for another country if she wants to compete in the Olympics. Like Canada, for example. I hear Mervin Tran is looking for a partner. :shuffle:
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  2. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Funny, I would think exactly the opposite. I think it is easier to throw someone on throw jumps, rather than being someone who is thrown into throw jump and is supposed to land it. The difficult bits for singles male would be to learn the lifts.
  3. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    I heard that too! What a wonderful pairing that would be! :lol:
  4. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but that's not how your post sounded. It sounded like you were saying any of the Japanse men outside the top five at nationals would be better off trying pairs with Takahashi n, and that's just insane. You don't flush the last X years of training down the toilet on a whim to skate pairs.

    You seem to think that acquiring triples is harder than learning to skate pairs, and on that I think you're wrong. You're seriously underestimating the work that pairs skaters put into their skills.
  5. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    The problem here, is that Narumi's weakest elements are her jumps. They've always scored well because of the twist, lifts and spirals. Which depended strongly on Mervin's skills. Skills that take a lot of time to perfect and someone new to pairs is very unlikely to have by the Olympics, which I assume is the issue for Japan if they want someone in the team competition. Making the TES minimum will be a challenge. Not impossible, but highly improbable. But, predicting the future is a fool's game and maybe things will work out for her.
  6. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Morgan Ciprès is the only man listed above who started pairs from scratch with his current partner and he is to be commended for the progress he has made since September 2010, especially since (I assume) it is more challenging and potentially more dangerous when the man is the pairs newbie instead of the woman/girl.
  7. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    That's my belief as well.

    Where is 5Ali3 to give us the real scoop?
  8. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I am underestimating the work the pairs do. I am just saying that there are at least 4 elite pairs that were created using a singles skater and the pairs became strong within 1.5 - 2 seasons. Whereas I have never seen any current pair skater being successful in singles after a pair broke down. If you think it is much easier to get the triples at that age after not doing them for many years, please provide some examples who managed it.

    And in regards to 'flushing the last X years of training down the toilet on a whim to skate pairs', common sense may tell them that if their category is so competitive, they have no chance to get through and compete at major international competitions. Look at Marley, with the competitive level of US ladies, without switching to pairs she would be unlikely going to Four continents or Worlds within the next 5 years. Switched to pairs and within a year or two she was there. Same about Gerbold, with the competition in Russian ladies, she it is unlikely that she would have much chance now. I can't see Cipres beating Amodio or Joubert, so he would be somewhere lower at senior French nationals and no attendance at Europeans or Worlds. And I am not sure if Wolfe would be good enough to get at senior Canadian nationals into top three to be sent. So for all of them, I don't think they see their situation as 'flush the last X years of training down the toilet'. I think they see it as opportunity, open door and they grabbed it.
  9. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    No, me too. I *adore* him, and.... like her, but am a bit intrigued by the idea of him getting a more consistent partner. :shuffle:
  10. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    I can definitely attest to that -even if I only skate as an adult. First time I seriously worked on pairs was with one of my first coaches, who competed at Sectionals a few years ago. We could do fwd press lifts on the ice and star and platter lifts off ice within a few weeks. And then I briefly skated with someone who'd never done pairs before and we barely got our stationary press lift to work off ice after months of trying. This was for people who were comparable in terms of built, as well.
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  11. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    Shittity Shit. They were my favourite couple after Savchenko/Szolkowy.

    (Dear Santa, I would like to enjoy YuNa Kim and Volosozhar/Trankov, could you bring me the ability for Christmas this year?).
  12. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    It's even more impressive considering Vanessa herself didn't have that much pairs experience when they teamed up - I believe she's been skating pairs for, what, five years or so? And she's quite tall, too, which is also challenging. I'm very impressed with the progress they've made.

    I have no idea why Takahashi would decide to end such a successful partnership at this point in time. It seems really weird.
  13. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    While I enjoyed T&T tremendously (I thought they had the best SP last season), I would imagine whatever Japanese partner she acquires, his biggest asset will be the jumps. And jumps are not Takahashi's strength (understatement!). The reason T&T did as well as they did, despite their propensity to make errors, was because of the quality of their actual pairs elements. Finding a Japanese males skater who has strong pairs elements will not be easy.
  14. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I believe Andrea Poapst has canadian citizenship. I think her and tran would be good together
  15. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Great shame
  16. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    :( Best of luck to both of them in their future skating (and non-skating) endeavors.
  17. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    This is why Totmianina and Marinin, both singles skaters, switched to Pairs. They had many years under expert coaching to gel, though, and each had come to the same conclusion about his or her singles career.

    I haven't read anywhere that Takahashi is healed; until recently, Tran's tweeted frustration that they weren't on the ice, with no indication that a return was soon, although it's possible her recovery was withheld because she was planning to dump him. Even if she's completely healed, then the chances of her being competitive with anyone starting from scratch in less than 14 months are very slim.

    If the GP rules hold, she has the advantage as a former World medallist to get two GP's next season without needing a minimum GP score. We most likely won't know until after the season if they plan to have minimum scores for the Olympics or if they do, what those scores will be, and if they'll apply to appointed skaters. JPN won't have a Pair at Worlds -- even Volosozhar/Trankov had almost a year together before they competed internationally -- and they'd have to be ready to earn a spot at Nebelhorn. (IIRC, there are only four Pairs spots awarded in the qualifier, unless a country gives back a spot.) It might work out just fine for JPN to appoint a Pairs team for the team event: one point (or two) might be the difference between getting the last spot in the final, and would give the team valuable Olympic experience.

    If the Japanese Fed had anything to do with her change of heart, chances are they could have lots to do with a lower-level/ranked Japanese man's change of heart WRT Pairs skating, especially since he would inherit a tiny partner who is a World medalist and superb in most pairs skills.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWsAobVL_Q8

    In the above video that I posted earlier (Japanese sports show interview w/ T/T), the interviewer says to Narumi that Mervin is a "Gift from God." Narumi then repeats to Mervin in English what the interviewer said ... "Mervin, you are a present from God." Well, God have mercy on them being rent asunder.

    Good luck to all and happy fs viewing ... Happy Holidays. :saint:
  19. madm

    madm Active Member

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    Agree. Andrea is from Toronto and is a Canadian citizen. This was one of the problems with her pairing with Chris Knierim who is a U.S. citizen, which limited them in terms of ever being able to compete in the Olympics. Is she still training in the U.S.? She is no longer on icepartnersearch so I do not know if she's still looking for a partner. She is a lovely skater and quite petite.
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    AFAIK, Andrea Poapst is still partnerless and training in Artesia, California with Peter Oppegard.
  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ How tall is Andrea Poapst? What part of Canada does she hail from? -- ok, I see Toronto, posted earlier.

    Ok, I checked Andrea's icepartnersearch listing and it indicates she's 5' 0"

    http://icepartnersearch.com/showbio.php?i=4035

    She also indicates "undecided" under the question about relocating. However, since she is Canadian, seemingly she would not be averse to moving back to Canada to train with Mervin's coaches. Andrea is fortunate in being able to have dual citizenship (or does she yet have U.S. citizenship?).

    Maybe Andrea and Mervin will try out, but a lot of different things go into determining whether a partnership will work. Has Andrea ever tried out with Rockne?

    BTW, I wonder what Rockne is doing these days aside from skating in shows and preparing for the holidays? I wonder if he is doing some partner searching, or if he has someone in mind that he'd like to skate with (post the usual season-end break-ups/ mash-ups)?
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I think if Poapst had dual citizenship she would have listed it in her IPS profile? (last updated in May 2012)

    It's probably more accurate to say "Finding a Japanese male skater who could learn strong pairs elements will not be easy." I don't believe any other Japanese pair teams, at any level, exist in Japan at this time?
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  23. Anya

    Anya Member

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    I wonder if anyone one know an average time-frame to 'convert' from male single skating to pairs? I have seen girls manage this transition in less than a year on a number of occasions, but the only male skater I can think of is Ivan Bich, who used to be a Junior-level single skater and now competes with Kamilla Gainetdinova in Junior Pairs. I think it took him about a year as well (she did not have any prior experience in Pairs, either). Their pair elements are not outstanding at this point, but they do complete them. And they are 'the other' team to do side-by-side triple Lutzes in competition.

    I am just curious, if a potential goal of having a Japanese pair skating team is at all reachable at this stage, even provided that the JSF would persuade any of their numerous male single skaters to switch and team up with Takahashi.
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Anya, thanks for bringing up the Gainetdinova/Bich example. How quickly and successfully singles skaters transition to pairs would depend on the skills and temperaments of the skaters as individuals and how they meld together as a team, as well as the quality of coaching, of course. I don't think it's possible to predict an "average time-frame" for any newly-formed pair (male or female being new to pairs).
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    If it's a Federation goal and has Federation support to field a Pair in the team event, it should be possible if they don't expect the team to be competitive, just operational, by Sochi, and if they are aiming for the long term. By support I mean funding the Pair to train out of Japan with an expert Pairs coach -- this would be a plus for some male singles skaters and a negative for others -- unless they can convince Vasiliev, who is a master manufacturer, to set up shop in Japan. (He last sounded pretty fed up and at least he likely would be starting with two people who can skate and with sophistication: he said that he had to teach Totmianina and Marinin what brackets and counters were when they first started with him.)

    The other issue besides that is whether and how much Takahashi has healed. She'd be risking re-injury learning Pairs moves with an inexperience partner, given the number and severity of falls Pairs women take on the Pairs elements.

    ETA: Also, if the Japanese Fed was influential in Takahashi's decision and is interested in the Team Event -- they could be sitting back and thinking, not worth just trying to scrape into the final at this point -- they might very well have skaters in mind and have been setting the stage. They had Morozov all lined up before they faxed Richard Callahan to say that Arakawa wouldn't be back.
  26. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    Oh, no! They were a very promising pair. I assume Narumi will get full support from the Japanese federation in terms of finding another partner and all that. Will Mervin receive the same from the Canadian or will he be let alone struggling through this difficult time?
  27. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Considering that he is one of the three Canadian male Pairs skaters to medal at the World level in the last decade, I would hope he will not be let alone struggling.
  28. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    He never represented Canada, did he? Will that be a factor regarding funding and other supports? He had helped the Japanese, not Canadian federation to earn a spot (or two, I don't know) in future major competitions. Shouldn't he be requesting some sort of severance pay from the Japanese?:p
  29. JasperBoy

    JasperBoy Well-Known Member

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    When Natasha Purich was looking for a partner I hoped that Mervin Tran would be available for her. Bad timing, I guess.
  30. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    ^
    I guess it depends how well things are going with her and her new partner.

    Purich and Julianne Seguin are both in Montreal, and could be interesting partners. Also Andrea Poapst sounds like another possibility.
  31. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Revisiting this thread . . . I wouldn't be surprised if Jessica Dube and Mervin Tran joined forces. 2 Senior World bronze medalists and both have Canadian citizenship.
  32. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    Interesting idea. How is Jessica doing right now? Does she have a partner at this moment?
  33. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    And that matters how? He didn't skate for Japan because he turned down skating Pairs for Canada, and he's that rarity: a truly gifted male Pairs skater with Canadian citizenship.
  34. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    He didn't turn down skating pairs for Canada....he was a singles skater in Regina, Saskatchewan, and Richard Gauthier approached him to try pairs because Bruno Marcotte had noticed Mervin and thought he might look good with Narumi, who had already approached Richard to coach her. Mervin went to Montreal for a try-out (apparently because he thought a trip to Montreal would be fun, according to an interview), enjoyed the whole thing, and agreed to skate pairs with Narumi (for Japan).

    Gifted male pairs skaters from Canada aren't all that rare...(well, yeah, compared to gifted Russian male pairs skaters they're rare, but not compared to male pairs skaters overall).
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  35. figureit

    figureit New Member

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  36. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    He represented Japan = He didn't participate in the Canadian national. I simply assumed that in order to receive funding, he has to participate in the national and meet a certain placement requirement. I don't think he will be able to compete without a partner at this year's national. That's why I asked the question: "Will that be a factor regarding funding and other supports?" I asked because I don't know.
  37. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Jessica Dubé/Sébastien Wolfe haven't competed since 2012 Worlds. We're waiting to see if they will make their season debut at 2013 Canadians.

    Re-posting an answer from another thread:
  38. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    Thanks for the info, Sylvia. It seems to me that the possibility of a Jessica-Mervin union is becoming greater and greater. :)
  39. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, Jessica is 5'2", and a shorter partner would be better for Mervin. Plus she is older than him, and may have intended wrapping up her career after 2014. Whereas at his age (22), Mervin is young for a male pairs skater, and may be aiming for 2018 and beyond.
  40. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    You are right. Partnering with Jessica might not be a "long-term" solution. Gosh, I'm making Jessica sound like a grandma.:D