Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Mevrouw, Dec 18, 2012.
Wouldn't be shocked, though.
OMG that's such an awesome idea!! They would be such a wonderful pair if Nakamura could pick up the pairs skills in time. He's such a beautiful skater and would be totally worthy of Narumi's talent! CALL KENTO NOW NARUMI!!
What about Natasha Purich and Tran? I know she already has a partner
Agree ... Kento is a v. elegant skater, but has no chance of making the men's team whatsoevah.
I was thinking that too, especially since she is tiny, and already in Montreal...
I really enjoyed Narumi and Mervin ... very sad to hear of yet another split, and coming after her injury this season too.
How sad with all the time together they had invested and the future looking so bright for them together on the ice. Too bad politics intervenes.
Their Julie Marcotte-choreographed sp at Nice Worlds was definitely one of the highlights earlier this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5P90eoKGEQ T/T 2012 Worlds sp So very lovely (((sigh)))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61OOffoS0ZY T/T 2012 Worlds fp
It had to be a difficult decision for Narumi to make, but she did have a lot of time to think while recuperating.
I was not familiar with Kento Nakamura, but he does have grace and nice lines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NKcMUkSytY Nakamura at Finlandia Trophy 2012
Best of luck to both Mervin and Narumi ...
Please can we get through the rest of the season with everyone else intact and healthy?!
From the rather short list of male singles skaters in Japan who could possibly switch to pairs Nakamura's name has certainly been brought up before. This is not likely to be possible, though. Aside from other issues, Nakamura has had multiple incidences of dislocating his shoulder--not a very good history for a male pairs skater to have.
Of those with easily recognizable names, Takahito Mura, whose father was both a singles and pairs skater, is a better candidate. However, there has been no sign of him wanting to switch to pairs, and it would be extremely unlikely with his singles career advancing as it has been.
^ So, Narumi apparently doesn't have anyone in mind in particular. What could "other" reasons have been for the split aside from the citizenship issue? It took Mervin and Narumi five years to reach a level of development where they got on the Worlds podium. Is it all downhill from here then, for both of them?
Here is a cute video interview re Mervin and Narumi with performance clips (more focusing on Narumi). I don't understand much, but it's fun to watch, and sad now too with news of their split.
at Mervin talking in English about throwing Narumi into the air ... ...
Robin Szolkowy is 5 feet, 9 inches tall. His accomplishments have been adequate.
This really sucks. I loved them together and wanted to see them grow. Well, I wish them the best of luck in whatever they decide to do. Hopefully, each of them will find good partners and keep skating.
Savchenko is tiny.
And has excellent core body strength. Robin doesn't have to do all the work. I think there are a lot of good skaters who will look Mervin's way now that there's an opportunity. There is no reason he and a good senior lady couldn't make it to the Olympics if things worked well. It wouldn't happen with a low level skater, but I can think of several senior ladies who may be looking at their current partners and going hmmmmmm.....I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a new team by late March.
I disagree. I think there are potential male partners, they just did not realised it yet. Japan has a strong male singles discipline, very competitive. Takahashi, Hanyu, Kozuka, Oda and this season also Machida and Mura... If I was a Japanese male single skater, let's say somewhere between 6-10 place at their nationals, I would realise that the chances of me beating those above me are very small and although they have 3 spots for Four continents/ Worlds, I wouldn't get to any major international competition.
A man between 6-10 place at their nationals would have pretty consistent jumps, so all he would need to learn is lifts, throw jumps and throw twist, death spiral and synchronised spinning. It is doable. Wolfe had only limited pair career on junior level and last year they were getting much better. Morgan Cipres was single men skater on junior level and now they are becoming quite decent.
The only problem is time. They would have to find the partner now and start training immediately, so that when next season starts, they would be together for 9 months.
Narumi is a small girl, so the height of the potential partner should not be such a problem. (there are some smaller men pair skaters - Rockne, Szolkovy), although if the man was taller, it would be advantage.
All they would need to learn?? That is a hell of a lot! Singles skater who have pairs experience is one thing, but senior men with no experience of pairs - its really unlikle yot happen, and certainly not quickly.
I have no idea why so many people still cling to the idea that pairs skaters are all failed singles skaters. The switch isn't easy, all of the skills you list are difficult. Changing your basic skating technique to match someone else's skating isn't easy. You need to add all of the skills the skater currently does too - solo jumps aren't left alone either - if the two skaters have different techniques on the jumps, they need to be changed in line with the partner. None of this is easy.
Not only not easy, but potentially very dangerous. Pairs has the most dangerous elements in skating. There is a serious risk of injury to both partners, but especially, to the woman. I think it would be infinitely easier to switch to singles from pairs rather than the other way around. I still maintain it will be much easier for Mervin to find an partner and potentially be ready for the Olympics than it will for Narumi.
I am not saying that pair partners are failed singles, that's your words, but if you look at some of the partnerships, you may find out that actually if they can't find partner among pairs, they choose single skater and make pair partner of him/her. It usually works pretty well.
Gerbold-Enbert were quite strong in their first season, Dube-Wolfe needed a bit more time but were becoming quite reasonable, Marley-Brubaker were weaker in their first season but their second one was definitely quite strong. James-Cipres are also getting much stronger now. By the way, Wolfe was not only single skater, he was also only junior! Cipres too I believe. I am not saying that it would be easy, they would have to work extremely hard. I am saying that if they paired now and started working together immediately, it is doable. (OK, it is not doable to win the Worlds or Olympics, but it is doable to qualify there and have a decent skate).
Changing from pairs to singles is impossible, unless you have been doing both throughout. For pairs you need 2 jumps (either 2 triples or one triple and double axel), for singles you need the full set, and if you are male then also quads. Changing from pairs to singles is not easy because with 2 jumps you won't be competitive. Jessica Dube, when she was without partner, tried to come back to singles. I think she ended up about 9th at their nationals.
Some of the Japanese men have the skills needed to transition to pairs...but without pair coaches and pairs training centers, it makes it much harder to accomplish.
My guess is that they will find Takahashi a partner and send them overseas asap.
Japan can be a powerhouse in pairs some day. They need the structures to do that.
I think the bigger problem is, there is very little interest in Japan in pairs or dance. That may change, but it's not the situation at present.
In general, I suspect it's probably easier for a small-enough female singles skater to get up to speed on pair skills with an experienced male pair skater than it is for a male singles skater to get up to speed on pair skills with an experienced female pair skater, although I can think of at least one example of the latter sort of pairing that worked relatively well.
Maybe Narumi Takahashi will have to go skate for another country if she wants to compete in the Olympics. Like Canada, for example. I hear Mervin Tran is looking for a partner.
Funny, I would think exactly the opposite. I think it is easier to throw someone on throw jumps, rather than being someone who is thrown into throw jump and is supposed to land it. The difficult bits for singles male would be to learn the lifts.
I heard that too! What a wonderful pairing that would be!
Sorry but that's not how your post sounded. It sounded like you were saying any of the Japanse men outside the top five at nationals would be better off trying pairs with Takahashi n, and that's just insane. You don't flush the last X years of training down the toilet on a whim to skate pairs.
You seem to think that acquiring triples is harder than learning to skate pairs, and on that I think you're wrong. You're seriously underestimating the work that pairs skaters put into their skills.
The problem here, is that Narumi's weakest elements are her jumps. They've always scored well because of the twist, lifts and spirals. Which depended strongly on Mervin's skills. Skills that take a lot of time to perfect and someone new to pairs is very unlikely to have by the Olympics, which I assume is the issue for Japan if they want someone in the team competition. Making the TES minimum will be a challenge. Not impossible, but highly improbable. But, predicting the future is a fool's game and maybe things will work out for her.
Morgan Ciprès is the only man listed above who started pairs from scratch with his current partner and he is to be commended for the progress he has made since September 2010, especially since (I assume) it is more challenging and potentially more dangerous when the man is the pairs newbie instead of the woman/girl.
That's my belief as well.
Where is 5Ali3 to give us the real scoop?
I don't think I am underestimating the work the pairs do. I am just saying that there are at least 4 elite pairs that were created using a singles skater and the pairs became strong within 1.5 - 2 seasons. Whereas I have never seen any current pair skater being successful in singles after a pair broke down. If you think it is much easier to get the triples at that age after not doing them for many years, please provide some examples who managed it.
And in regards to 'flushing the last X years of training down the toilet on a whim to skate pairs', common sense may tell them that if their category is so competitive, they have no chance to get through and compete at major international competitions. Look at Marley, with the competitive level of US ladies, without switching to pairs she would be unlikely going to Four continents or Worlds within the next 5 years. Switched to pairs and within a year or two she was there. Same about Gerbold, with the competition in Russian ladies, she it is unlikely that she would have much chance now. I can't see Cipres beating Amodio or Joubert, so he would be somewhere lower at senior French nationals and no attendance at Europeans or Worlds. And I am not sure if Wolfe would be good enough to get at senior Canadian nationals into top three to be sent. So for all of them, I don't think they see their situation as 'flush the last X years of training down the toilet'. I think they see it as opportunity, open door and they grabbed it.
No, me too. I *adore* him, and.... like her, but am a bit intrigued by the idea of him getting a more consistent partner.
I can definitely attest to that -even if I only skate as an adult. First time I seriously worked on pairs was with one of my first coaches, who competed at Sectionals a few years ago. We could do fwd press lifts on the ice and star and platter lifts off ice within a few weeks. And then I briefly skated with someone who'd never done pairs before and we barely got our stationary press lift to work off ice after months of trying. This was for people who were comparable in terms of built, as well.