Survivor Philippines (Season 25)

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Catherine M, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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    I adore Malcolm. :swoon:
    I'm also really liking Lisa and Denise and am loving Penner. I wasn't sure about him coming into this season but I'm so glad he's back!
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  2. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    I actually jumped up and yelled "YES!!" when the final vote was revealed :shuffle: Seriously, Penner is pwning this game. I do not want him leaving. Lurved the way he was working Lisa - especially because he was telling the truth. Of course, what I really loved was Lisa having no idea why he would understand show business :rofl:

    Abi is a miserable, horrid person. I feel sorry for anyone who knows her in real life - except I suspect all her friends are just like her :scream:

    classy exit by Artis. He's had so little scream time, I wonder if he's been more like that all along, but his role was the cranky curmudgeon so they only showed that side of him. I sure would have rather eliminated Abi or Pete, but it was so smart to target the one person in the alliance who would not get the idol.


    I actually think Skupin is finally becoming a version of the S2 Skupin - a very good player.
  3. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    sorry for double posting, but --- PML Artis' Ponderosa video!!!

    1) Jeff comes out to greet him, but RC doesn't, and when Artis comes in, she gets up and walks away :rofl: While Artis goes to medical (19 lbs lost), Jeff and RC chat, Jeff thinks everyone left has no idea how to play, while he of course did :drama:, and RC says it's hard to see Skupin finally willing to flip when he wouldn't do it for either her or Jeff (but they note he didn't have immunity before).

    2) Artis upon seeing himself is a hoot. He's totally appalled at himself. Where has this Artis been? He's hilarious! Now I really want to know if he was done in by the editors to only show his curmudgeonly side, or if he was just completely unable to be anything but miserable out there. I think it has to be the former, because even as he was walking away from TC he was saying that anyone who doesn't have a smile when they walk out of the game didn't appreciate what they'd been given. Hmmm.
  4. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Totally! I was not happy to have someone back a third time, but am SO eating my words and loving every second of his game! He has all the qualities I want to see in a player - truly loves and respects the game, really wants to be there, VERY smart (seriously, getting all the bags out in the challenge was brilliant strategically, and socially), willing to manipulate (OMG he has Lisa's number) and entertaining to boot.

    Also loving Lisa. She's gold on this show - they love the whole personal journey thing, and she's delivering in spades. What a truly nice person, but also a decent player - would be more than happy to see her in the end.


    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    I think we are seeing some of the finest players we've ever seen this season - Penner, Lisa, Denise, Malcolm and Pete are all excellent players, and even Skupin has his moments. Carter is hard to tell, but he hasn't got this far by chance I think, and even Abi, despite her loathesomeness, has some game.

    And you'd think a professional athlete would know that if you diss the people who beat you, it just makes you an even bigger loser by comparison. And that mustache! He's a good looking man, but that just makes him look like a caricature. I expect he had some 'splainin to do after his wife say RC falling all over him. :lol:
  5. Catherine M

    Catherine M Well-Known Member

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    Mrs. Kent is probably use to cleat chasers like RC falling all over Jeff. Goes with the territory of being a ballplayer's wife.


    Poor Lisa has west nile virus:

    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20648388,00.html


    And If there are any post boot articles in the local New Orleans paper about Artis, I'll be sure to post.
  6. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I'd guess it's probably a combination of both, because the other players didn't seem to like him that much either. Plus he was friends with Pete and Abi. That said, I agree he had a classy exit, and I'm looking forward to checking out the Ponderosa video.

    Yeah, I think I have to eat my words from when I said that Jonathan was not a good player, because he has really brought his game this time. I think he must have been taking notes from his former tribemate Yul, because the conversations that Jonathan had with Mike and Lisa were very reminiscent of the approach that Yul (successfully) used on Jonathan himself. Even while being somewhat manipulative, he was still being honest and a fairly soft sell. He'd plant seeds and then kind of leave things in a "to be continued" mode, then pick it up a little bit later. Jonathan's been in that role where he was the swing vote that ultimately meant the good guys won and I think he was able to use that to his advantage here. I was very impressed!

    The one thing that I was surprised that no one pointed out or discussed was that if Lisa and Mike went with the terrible trio, they were clearly going to be cut loose at 4 and 5, so going with that group meant that the "bad guys" really did win. Switching things up to go with two other pairs means that (a) there is no real dominant three (and I don't think that Penner-Carter-Malcolm-Denise are 100% sold on sticking together...much easier for Lisa and Skupin to make inroads with that group) and (b) if you do lose, at least it's to someone you can stomach seeing with the money.

    I agree - what a great season to see a bunch of players who came to play, lots of changing alliances and last minute changes. One thing I realized is that every season Jonathan has been on has been a great season (Cook Islands and Fans vs. Faves are both in my top 5 all-time seasons)...since I don't think he really needs to play a fourth time, they need to look for more people like him to play in other seasons.
  7. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I think they're getting better at casting actual fans of the game - even Jeff and Lisa, the "celebrities" are true fans of the game, there to play. I'd also count Pete for sure, and even the guy who was voted out first - he loved the game, and was ready to play hard.

    I hope the casting team learns something too in that most of the under the radar types and bikini models didn't make the jury - that type of casting adds nothing to the game.

    As for choosing the good guys vs the bad guys, while it appears Lisa is loyal to a fault, I wonder if there was any thought of the end - being up against any one of the terrible trio would be a slam dunk. As Malcolm aptly pointed out when he was briefly aligned with Denise and Lisa, going to the end with good and worthy players makes for a much tougher win.

    Also, a thought just occurred - now that Pete and Abi are clearly on their own, I wonder if there will be a fight for the II? If Pete's back is up against the wall, he's going to try every dirty trick possible to get it from her.
  8. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Agree about the Calabauw alliance. Clearly Malcolm and Denise are in it to the end (or until one of them needs to make a mercy cut if either feels they can't beat the other in F3, of which we haven't seen any indication), but Carter is mostly a hanger on (expendable - but potentially valuable in F3 because he hasn't done anything memorable) and Penner still has a huge target - and he's laid so much social groundwork with both SKupin and Lisa that he has to be thinking of working with them down the line.

    Honestly, I can't remember when there's been such an interesting season with so many players I'd be happy to have win.

    I think the key takeaway for casting (which I'm confident they will ignore) is that, when selecting returning players, it's best to go with players with real potential who left mid-pack. If they left because their approach was flawed, they're more likely to learn and correct than someone who got super close. If they just didn't get to play their full game, this is their chance. The reason Boston Rob became St Rob was because in the first ASS, he was one of only 2 returning 10th place players. He bombed his first Survivor - but he learned what to do (and not to do), came in, and everyone else was so busy being Survivor celebrities, doing whatever worked for them the first time, they paid no attention to the hungry guy who was actually working it, and them, HARD.
  9. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Do we know for sure it's a 3-person finale? That would give us an 8-member jury, and I don't think they've ever done that. With 3 potential votes there could still be a tie, but it would be unusual.

    I thought they might be heading back to a 2-person finale. I know they (and we) don't particularly like the goat strategy, but at the same time, the third person in recent years usually gets no votes anyway, and takes up valuable time in final TC.
  10. jamesy

    jamesy Well-Known Member

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    They had a F2 with an 8 person jury for Fans vs Favorites. I remember all the talk about "what if there's a tie?" and the producers keeping quiet about they would do. I don't know if they've said either way for this season if it will be F2 or F3.
  11. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Malcolm - I just don't think Lisa would have gotten to the end if she made it to the final 5 with Abi, Pete, Artis, and Mike.

    Speaking of Malcolm, I forgot to mention how awesome he was after last week's tribal council at the beginning of the episode - a lot of people say "it's a game" when they're the ones lying and manipulating, but take it personally when they're on the other side of the coin. He'd one of the few who actually gets it even when he's on the downside. I thought he handled Lisa really well to tell her that he understood is wasn't personal and that probably helped their alliance with this vote (and will ultimately help in the long run). I know that Skupin was the one who flipped, but I would be willing to be that he let Lisa in on what he was doing and probably had her blessing. If Malcolm hadn't been so good with Lisa, she might have felt a lot stronger about sticking with Tandang and pushed Skupin to follow suit.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  12. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    True, because aside from being tight with each other, those three esp Pete are cutthroat, and there's no way they'd want Lisa anywhere near them at the end. Skupin may annoy them, but he hasn't made enemies and might still have a bit of the hero lustre from his time in Australia - an easy vote if you don't like the other choices.

    At this point, the ones I want to see in final TC are Lisa the actress/preacher/public speaker, Denise the psychologist and Penner the writer/Hollywood pitchman - can you imagine? Malcolm is going to have an uphill battle with that lot!
  13. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    What a great season. I was prepared to dislike Lisa and Penner...now is a different story.
  14. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    This season is any long-time Survivor fan's dream come true. Could this seriously get any better??
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  15. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

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    Who actually was the person who pried up that Idol that Abi has? Was it Pete or Abi? For some reason I thought it was Pete that actually pried it off the lid, which in my mind means its HIS idol. So why does Abi have it? I don't believe for a minute that Abi will give it to Pete. Not a chance in hell. Someone clear that up for me please. :eek:

    And Penner digging up all the bags was kinda brilliant. I never in a million years would have thought of doing that. I can understand why Lisa didn't stop and dig the other bags out, buy why didn't Malcolm go ahead and look for the final bag as well? And so funny Abi didn't get picked. Speaks volumes. Well, probably not to her.

    I really hope it is not a 3 person final. I hate that. Take it back to 2 so we have spend more time on the questions and answers with just 2 people. The 3 person is never a factor anyway.
  16. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

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    Yes. If they can blindside Abi while she is still holding the Idol. I would love that!
  17. Spareoom

    Spareoom Well-Known Member

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    Man, Penner is playing Lisa like a FIDDLE. Never mind that all he says is pretty true, Lisa doesn't mind/seems to like it and it's persuading her to vote with him, which is a good thing, but goodness, I can't help but feel like I'm watching a master exploitation. :lol:
  18. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Except that she still voted for him to leave. I do like the theory that Skupin might have told her he was going to flip, so she knew Penner would stay and she could still stay loyal, but it was a risk.

    One wonders why Lisa is so darn loyal, even when it's against her best interests and to people who clearly treat her badly. Just before filming started, her divorce was finalized - they were married 23 years. I wonder if there were loyalty issues there, and she's determined to do what she believes is the right thing. Might have something to do with an example to her kids - they are grown now, but she homeschooled them and wrote many books on parenting.
  19. Rogue

    Rogue Sexy Superhero

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    She may also be thinking ahead to the end game, especially if Mike told her he was flipping. If she can make it to the final, she may have assured herself 3 votes by being loyal.
  20. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    True. There's a good chance that Abi and Artis will vote for someone who stayed loyal to them. Pete OTOH is loyal to no one, and I do think is more likely to vote for the better player - I don't think he respects Lisa's game at this point.

    At this point though, from what we see on the show, the only one really playing the jury is Penner. Smart man.
  21. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Abi will vote for Pete if he's in the finals, and nothing will change that, unless he is the decision maker in sending her home. I do believe Pete will vote for the best player - and he WON'T vote for Abi if she somehow makes it to the finals without him. I think Artis might vote for the best player - except for Skupin. Per the podcast on EW, he just hates the guy, not based on game play, he flat out does not like him.

    We did see Denise wink at RC after the votes were read last TC. In general Denise is getting a very muted edit now, I think she's doing a lot more than we're seeing.
  22. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Yes I am wondering about that too. My bet is she's in everyone's head much more than Penner, but since her conversations are likely guised in mundane non-strategy talk, they aren't showing them.

    Now that Artis is gone and Pete/Abi are weakened, maybe Denise/Malcolm need to keep them around to divert attention from their own tight alliance. Mind you, we're running out of targets!
  23. Rogue

    Rogue Sexy Superhero

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    It's to his detriment that he didn't respect her game play. If he had, Malcolm and the HII would have been history and his team would still be riding high.
  24. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I very much doubt it. In a voiceover in this episode, Jonathan referred to Artis as one of a trio of bullies. I can't for the life of me imagine Jonathan saying something like that if it weren't true.
  25. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

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    Buh-bye, Pete - I won't miss you. Abi should be gone next, unless she wins immunity, which Murphy's law would favor.
  26. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Surprisingly good episode for one without a lot of suspense. Lots of good end game talk, but I was disappointed in Penner for not committing to Skupin and Lisa. Big mistake in my opinion. It was fun to watch Abi and Pete make their pitch to Lisa, Carter, and Penner, all to be met with a big THUNK.

    Abi needs to shut up and quit interrupting.
  27. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    whee, this season just keeps getting better :cheer2:

    I agree that Penner may have made a fatal mistake in not committing to Lisa and Skupin (and Lisa was right on in saying that she trusted Penner more - always go with the singleton, not the tight pair!!). Time will tell.

    Loved Abi getting schooled on what a fcuking bitch she is, but the resulting underdog edit could be setting us up for a redemption storyline :scream: Gotta love the screen cap of her sticking her lower lip out - I suspect the production people feel that same about her that we do :lol:

    I would have been ok with Malcolm getting booted, although overall this was the preferable solution to this week's strategic dilemma.

    I really called that immunity challenge wrong. I never expected Carter to win it! Or Skupin to be a close 2nd! well played.

    I just got up to date on all the Ponderosa vids - Jeff is a fricken poor loser who has basically checked out of the game since he's no longer in the running for a million dollars, and Artis and (especially) Pete are just assholes. RC and her staccato stutter laugh would drive me up a wall 24/7 but I feel terrible for her stuck with these asshats. Pete made a play for being asked back - please no. He ran his tribe but is in no way a mastermind, he is not memorable enough to deserve another turn.

    If/when Abi sows up at Ponderosa, there will likely be a major catfight :watch:
  28. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Agree, not really suspenseful but interesting nonetheless.

    I actually started to feel a bit sorry for Abi last night. I'm having some deja vu - hasn't something similar happened to other players in the past (or maybe it was BB) - people who suddenly find themselves away from family/friends/community for the first time, and are smacked in the face with the fact that they don't fit in, and worse, that behaviour and character they thought was normal and positive is in fact offensive/unacceptable to others? I think genevieve might be right though - Survivor does love a redemption storyline, so bringing Abi to her lowest point and then showing her turn over a new leaf would be the kind of stuff they dream of.

    Carter needs to be watched more closely by the other players - of course we could be missing a lot, but they (and viewers) seem to be ignoring him, and now here he is winning his second immunity challenge against very tough competition. When we're down to the end, he could very well Colby his way into the final TC.

    Agree that Penner was playing it a bit too open - especially with those two. Lisa is loyal to a fault, craving somewhere to belong and feel trusted, and Penner should have known that. And Skupin is also wandering about looking for a port to call home, and Penner could have been the one who nabbed him. Mind you, Penner was right in one way in that there was no need to solidify F4 at this point - as long as Abi and Pete were around, F6 is the better strategy, leaving everyone's options open.

    Malcolm is definitely playing well, and it's amazing that no one seems to think it's important to break up him and Denise, and flush out his II. Pete was actually right in that instance, but too little to late. We didn't see his full arguments, but along with "Malcolm's a threat" he should have been saying "Malcolm and Denise combined are a bigger threat" and "if they haven't betrayed you now, they will before the end of the game." And either of them at final TC will win.

    Kind of annoyed to see the whole "I want to play with good people" thing coming up - I had hoped this season was free of that sort of thing.

    This is going to be a dogfight to the end though!
  29. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I might have felt sorry for her if she had seemed even an ounce apologetic about some of the things she was being called on or had she been at all willing to listen when Denise was trying to reason with her. All sympathy flew out the window when she bounced back with the "it's everyone else, it's not me, I'm so misunderstood" line.

    I'm not a huge fan of that type of thing either and started to groan when Denise started talking in that direction, but I kind of see her point, not that "I want to play with good people" but "I don't want to drag someone to the end to be my goat." I also think that Abi and Pete are just obnoxious to have around, as was aptly demonstrated by Abi this episode, so the less time you can spend with them, the better. Not to mention that Denise is trying to keep Skupin and Lisa in their alliance, so that's probably the best argument she could make to keep that situation going.
  30. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Good point - that's what speaks to those two most, especially Lisa, and therefore protects Denise and Malcolm.
  31. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Abi did say one smart thing last night - which is pointing out that Denise was totally using her psychologist's therapist's skills to manipulate the rest of them....but I think that's just one of those "even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day" things :p And I think people realize that Malcolm is a threat, but when you have two power couples that need to be broken up and you're in an alliance with one of them, why not start with the outsider couple, aka the more immediately desperate/dangerous one? One of the core rules about Survivor strategy is: don't betray too soon. Murphy's Law says that Abi could possibly pull out an immunity win next week, but.........come on, it's ABI. If Malcolm or Denise left this week, there's a very good chance that the other could win immunity the following week, and they could easily team up with Pete/Abi (looking for any deals they could) and make a good case to Carter to take down either Skupin or (more likely) Penner.

    BTW, I'm getting nervous about how we see Penner talking about his strategy and ending with "maybe they'll all vote me off, and if so, they got the best of me...but I trust them" every single week. Are TPTB trying to gently prepare us for the big come-uppance? Or are they just pulling our leg because Penner makes it? Or do they just like to make us squirm (most likely :p)?
  32. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    I felt a bit sorry for Abi, too, but she's 32 and she's an immigrant. Between the two, I'd think she must have had at least some experience with social isolation.
  33. smurfy

    smurfy Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the comments posted so far.
    I took the comments about good vs bad being more that bad is 'very very annoying'.
    I was thinking the same thing about redemption for Abi - Jeff has really gone after her all season long. I hope they address it well in the live show when you know Jeff will ask Abi how people reacted to her at home as the show aired. She is young, so there is hope that she may grow from this. Abi just does not listen.
    I was dissappointed with Penner in not aligning with Skupin & Lisa. That could be his downfall.
    But I am so torn, there are so many I want at the end, so when they start getting voted off I will be so upset.
    As of now - I am rooting for any of the following: Penner, Lisa, Malcolm and Denise to win, with Skupin moving iinto this group, finally.
    But as said before - Carter - why are they ignoring him. Physically he is capable. Once they get rid of Abi (and pray they do) - will the top 5 be so busy going after each other that Carter will slip through?? Carter can be a swing vote.
    Another thing I really like about the top 5, other than Malcolm - they are not young (they are close to my age), but Malcolm fits in with them anyway.
    This has really been an enjoyable season. As long as Abi does not win - I will be happy. (Assuming if Carter somehow wins - we will be appreciative of it).
  34. smurfy

    smurfy Well-Known Member

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    Wow - Abi is 32 - I thought she was maybe 22-25? I think I have less sympathy for her now.
  35. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, what little I did have definitely gone. I can't believe she is older than me!
  36. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    No, she's 32 and her personal claim to fame is that she has traveled the world alone.

    Her pet peeve is "complainers."
  37. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any sympathy for Abi. Her attitude is not cultural...a bitch is a bitch, no matter where they come from.
  38. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I'm no fan of Abi, but I find her no worse than many others who think they're all that, have diva tendencies, don't put themselves in other peoples' shoes, etc.

    When Denise was trying to get through to her and she kept interrupting, I think it's because at that point she knew she was in the wrong, and was increasingly embarrassed and humiliated to have everyone talking about her, and being the centre of attention in an unpleasant way, and perhaps realizing this was also going to be on national television as well. At some point, when others are going on and on at you, you do just want them to shut up and leave you alone.
  39. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but I've never found interrupting and trying to justify myself to be a successful way to get that result. Apologizing and asking to move on tends to be a better strategy and had she done that, I might have had a little bit more respect for her.
  40. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    well, that's not inconsequential, although you'd think someone with such wide experience would be more....open and inviting to other people.

    In one of the earlier episodes I theorized that Abi is one of those girls who goes on, quite loudly and quite often, about how much she hates drama, and yet she is always in the middle of it. And I bet all of her female friends (if she has any) are the same way - they "hate drama" yet always seem to be caught up in it. Because they are the ones who cause it, but of course to even suggest that is to start a flurry of accusations and recriminations. I still think this is true.

    Another shout out to editing - after Pete walked away from the group, we got a shot of the remaining survivors from a side angle that showed the greatest distance possible between Abi and the rest of the group. O, isolation! :drama:


    Quite frankly, I think the lack of 20-25 year olds in the 2nd half of the game is a HUGE reason this season is so successful. There have been some notable younger players, but given the casting trends, especially for the women, they are few and far between.