Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains (Threads Merged)

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by victorskid, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    I've since watched the Insider vids and Tyson was a tiny bit snarky about Coach there, but mostly he was kind and compassionate. He did say that Rob has been openly mocking Coach by telling his own long, made-up stories, but maybe Coach doesn't realize it?

    Jerri told Coach that she thinks they are perceived as being too close and she wants some distance between them (clip entitled "Jerri Dumps Coach":lol:). He told her what Tyson said to him after Tribal, and she told him that Tyson had told the others about it and they all laughed. She does not like the other women at all.

    More Insider vids--Russell waits until everyone goes to sleep and then takes the shovel and goes idol hunting in the dark. He can't see anything, so he rakes through the dirt with his fingers. And there's another clip of a FURIOUS Jerri on the beach complaining quite bitterly about Rob ordering people to not hunt for the idol, then sitting in camp watching everyone and sending someone else after anyone who leaves camp. I don't know if she's referring to anyone besides Russell (and apparently herself) but her eyes are practically bugging out of her head in the clip and she is speaking in the very controlled way people do when they really, really want to scream.
  2. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    I am liking Jerri more and more.

    I really hope that the tribe of villains realizes that Boston Rob has got to GO sooner than later. They are so much smarter than the last group of All Stars... they've got to realize that if he makes it to the individual immunity stage they are all toast.
  3. purple skates

    purple skates Shadow dancing

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    Exactly. On her previous seasons she has been a mastermind at controlling parts of the game. If she had had the athleticism too, she'd have been extremely hard to beat.
  4. dbell1

    dbell1 Well-Known Member

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    Jeff at TC was pretty hard on the Heroes. He's like 'ya voted out Steph' and lost 3 straight challenges. Now you're thinking of alliances and getting rid of more strong players?" :lol: Or it's because he was pretty tight with Colby ages ago and knew he was on the block?

    :respec: to Tom for the way he played the Idol. "I wanted to save this for us until the merge." He's thinking ahead in the game and taking a shot at his teammates. Will it go back into hiding in camp now?

    I'm loving Tyson more these days. Never thought I'd say that.
  5. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    either way it is a dumbass strategy, "let's dwindle down to nothing as soon as possible before the merge"
  6. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    It's interesting to me that each week the Heroes seem to have new criteria for voting, and yet three weeks in a row, it's been a woman eliminated.
  7. purple skates

    purple skates Shadow dancing

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    Well, Sugar was a no-brainer. Stephanie was Cirie's target, and I'm sure there was some payback for that going on this week as well as self preservation.
  8. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    Jeff was really incredulous that they voted Steph out and went on a real rant in his blog about it. Now Steph is tough and physical and all, but her record in the physical challenges isn't all that great, so I don't know that keeping her would have helped them.

    OTOH, Steph said that she is a very good swimmer and there are three? other people on the tribe who can't swim. Swimming may or may not be an issue, though; I don't remember a lot of swimming challenges last season. I think there's too much coral around Samoa for good swimming.

    But anyway, having an alliance does you no good if your alliance doesn't make it to the merge--and if you make it to the merge and you are the minority, you are dependent on the strength or weakness of the loyalty in the dominant tribe to determine your fate.

    Interestingly enough, both JT and Candice talk about that in confessionals and seem to be counting on the Villians to splinter after the merge. That may be; Parvati has a clip where she says that every member of her tribe seems to be adhering to Sandra's "anyone but me" strategy and she thinks it won't work because you need at least a couple of people you trust to help you through the game. The Villians, however, all know how the game is played, understand the numbers and don't particularly like the Heroes, so I'm not convinced they won't stick together. Unlike JT, Colby and Tom, they aren't interested in having "the good guys" win.
  9. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear please god NO. Although it probably will. :wall:
  10. iloveemoticons

    iloveemoticons Well-Known Member

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    I'm also with the half that was sad to see Cirie go :( I don't think she's that bad at challenges, and in Micronesia I remember her really helping her tribe in puzzle challenges. I don't think she was to blame for a lot of the Heroes losses, and don't understand why she was targeted when Tom was the one who lost the last immunity challenge.
  11. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Tom didn't single-handedly lose the last immunity challenge - every single person on the tribe who had a turn and lost a point to the other tribe contributed to that loss, and Cirie was one of them. I really hate the way those point challenges make it look like the task is won or lost based on the last person's performance. But Cirie wasn't booted because of her performance at challenges at all, it was for her brain and strategical thinking.
  12. iloveemoticons

    iloveemoticons Well-Known Member

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    Point challenge? There was a globe challenge where Russell S fainted last time, and Tom was the one directing everyone. He didn't single handedly lose, but if you choose to take the lead in something like that and it fails, then you are more responsible for it than your teammates are. It was a close challenge so it's not like Tom was horrible or deserved to go because of it, but I don't think Cirie deserved to go either. JT's been randomly gunning for Candace too, who hasn't been bad in challenges and isn't particularly strategic, so I'm not sure what he's thinking. Cirie is a threat, but I think JT is going to be in serious trouble if he truly thinks Tom and Colby are trustworthy down the line (he seems to think they're "good guys" for whatever reason?) I don't think Tom trusts JT after the Stephanie vote.
  13. smurfy

    smurfy Well-Known Member

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    I think you are correct. Tom is very loyal, logical and has a good memory. I think his bond with Colby is good. But Tom is there to win, he will probably want to get rid of JT at some point, but right now, drag him along. But I also think Tom would drop Colby at an opportune time.

    Cirie - even though her strategy and social game is her strength, and lack of physical strength is her weakness, I think not as much as one thinks. Especially in her first season, she was so underestimated. But I think Cirie, Rob and Parvarti are ones to get rid of first, as they are such social threats and endear themselves.

    Also forgot to comment - as much as James needs to go, I enjoyed the eye candy during the challenge that is shirtless James. If he keeps his mouth shut, he can stay awhile. But I think future of James and Amanda has really been disrupted with Cirie's departure.
  14. KHenry14

    KHenry14 Well-Known Member

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    JT's point made to Tom in the first EP about needing to go to the final 2 with someone else who had won makes a lot of sense. Because this is an all-start show, the dynamics of the game play are different as we are seeing.

    I thought voting out Cirie was a good idea, because she really knows how to play the social game. But if I was on the heroes, I'd really be thinking about getting JT out, because you don't want to go to the merge agains a guy like that who can win every individual immunity.

    Coach's "sensitivity" was amazing. How could he get his feelings that hurt over that type of a comment? Sandra seems meaner this time around, but come on Coach, get over yourself.

    BTW, these complicated voting schemes are a tricky business. If the five had just all voted for Colby it would have been a done deal. But no, they had to over think it. :rolleyes:
  15. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    According to JT, the core alliance on the Heroes tribe is JT, Amanda, James and Rupert. One reason JT was willing to turn on Cirie was because he didn't feel that he owed her any loyalty as he didn't have an alliance with her.

    Now whether James and Amanda had made an alliance with Cirie on the side or not is something I don't know. But I thought it was really interesting that JT didn't consider Cirie part of the group, especially since Cirie has indicated a couple of times that she wasn't in an alliance with Amanda and didn't feel any particular loyalty to her.
  16. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Sorry, I was confusing the reward challenge with the immunity challenge. I think in challenges like that with one leader and a bunch of followers a bad leader can ruin any chance of winning, but even a good leader can end up with a loss due to how the rest of the participants listen - it's not easy to pin that on any one person either unless there's one person who is clearly screwing up. Sometimes a lot of people doing well can fail because they aren't working as a team. I'd say Tom did a good job leading through that challenge but Rob knows how to direct his whole tribe and the Villains in general are just more focused.

    But my original point was that this vote had nothing to do with challenge performance and I stand by that.
  17. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused about something (and still don't know names). :) When they were deciding who to vote out on the Heros tribe, Tall Girl said "3 vote for Colby, 3 Vote for Tom. If he doesn't play idol they are tied so we vote again and Colby and Tom don't get to vote, then the 6 of us vote one of them out." I thought that when there was a tie, there is a revote but you CANNOT even vote for the 2 people who were tied? Meaning if Tom did not play idol, JT did not flip, Vote is 3 Colby, 3 Tom, 2 Cirie ... they revote but Tom/Colby cannot vote and YOU also cannot vote for them??? So the 6 of them would have had to vote out one of their own alliance??

    :confused:
  18. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    No, in the event of a tie/revote you can vote for the people who were tied. The plan was that, if Tom used the HII, it was guaranteed that his alliance-mate would be gone, but if he didn't use the HII they would all vote for Tom in the revote.
  19. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    There is a two-step process in the event of a tie. The first step is as genevieve (and Candice on Survivor) said where the two people who are on the chopping block don't vote and the rest of the tribe re-votes. If the tie is broken then, as happened last season when John switched his vote, then nothing further happens and the person with the most votes on the re-vote is gone. If the tie remains, then the two people who were going to be voted out are both safe and everyone else picks rocks to determine who is voted out. We've never seen the second step except in Season 4, which was a bit of a bastardization (because the two who were up for elimination were not declared safe). Clear as mud?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  20. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    ...which I thought was a very good plan. How did it get screwed up?
  21. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

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    oohh. okay. I just had it wrong then. :D Thanks!
  22. indicatoto101

    indicatoto101 New Member

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    Cirie's alliance counted on JT's vote, who dissented from the group and voted for Cirie. Never liked the guy since his Jedi powers compelled sweet, beautiful, and not so bright Branden to leave all strategy aside and help JT win the game.
  23. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.
    I guess I'm not the only one who thinks JT is over-rated.
  24. emason

    emason Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I never got the love the first time around and I don't get it now.
  25. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    I think JT is a very good player but I don't find him anywhere near as likeable asthe other players in the game seem to...but this move made me like him more than I did previously.
    Jenny and (deleted member) like this.
  26. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    One of the reasons I think that JT decided to get rid of Cirie is that like some of you, she wasn't under his spell. He realized that on his tribe, she's his greatest rival in the social game - too bad she didn't realize the same thing.

    I think JT and Parvati are going to dislike each other.
  27. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    just saw the preview ad for this week's ep...would LOVE for Russell to take Boston Rob out, but I don't think it's gonna happen. And I never like anyone to go out with an injury, but seeing LIVIDmanda whining "if he leaves, what am I gonna dooooooooooooooo :drama: " is making me hope... :EVILLE:
  28. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    JT, what are you thinking, keeping James and his bad knee? Your numbers will only make it to the merge if you win some challenges, and even then--you can't count on flipping the Villians just because that scheme worked once, especially since EVERYONE on your own tribe no longer trusts you and the Villians aren't nearly as easy to manipulate as those people in Toncantins. Just last week, you were saying you couldn't trust Cirie because the other tribe was full of known flip floppers and um, hello? And Coach is the only Villain who would go for the "JT is just such a good guy he should win" ploy and he's not playing the same game, either. The rest of them are more likely to boot you BECAUSE they like you.

    Yeah, James, I believe you when you say you will still be cool with anyone who votes you out, even though you are rolling your demented eyes at the time.

    LOL at Jerri making the winning basket; that girl is a chocolate nut. I could clearly see her rolling around on the beach in Australia with Amber, going on about chocolate while Colby snarked that he "ain't no chocolate bar."

    Hmm, what else? Oh, yeah, Coach. Good lord. He let Russell knight him. :lol: And wheeee for Parvati--"I don't ride anyone's coat tails."

    Will the big Russell-Boston Rob showdown go down next week? Wheeeee!
  29. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Is it next week? I thought they were going on their March Madness break :blah: - or maybe next week we just get Survivor on a different night?

    JT :wall: he just undid all my goodwill from last week and then some. Why on earth would he keep James over Tom? And why is no one concerned about the James/Amanda alliance?

    Jerri is one tough cookie. I was convinced her nose was broken after Rupert slammed her into that post ("I didn't mean for THAT to happen :eek:"), and she just stood up and brushed it off with a Whatever, dude.

    I often gloss over the reward locations, but that was truly stunning.
  30. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    HELLO. What a tribe of dummies!

    ETA: Genevieve, the next new episode will be on Wednesday in two weeks (the 24th). :blah: As much as I love NCAA basketball, I don't want to wait that long for a new episode!
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  31. indicatoto101

    indicatoto101 New Member

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    If JT wins this season, it's going to take a miracle, or some mega effective brainwashing from him. He's seen as untrustworthy and is not an ideal alliance member except to take to the final 2, but even then you worry if he will stab you in the back. Even strategy-less Amanda sees his shifty ways. She rode Cirie's tail and now is riding James' (this sounds funner than it actually its :lol: Wheee!). As soon as James is voted off, she'll find somebody else to get behind so I don't think anybody needs to worry about their alliance as I doubt it will get past the merge.
  32. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    Russel HAS to win. NA !
  33. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    Yes, that was an AMAZING swimming pool, wasn't it? :eek:
  34. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Yeah, JT is sure skating on thin ice right now. I was so looking forward to his spinning the tribe about the Cirie vote when they got back, and he did a decent job, but not with this crowd. One of the WORST things you can do is be unpredictable in this game, which is why I think he voted out Tom and not James.

    I have to think that he's going with Amanda/James/Rupert on the assumption that they have friends on the other tribe (Parvati/Courtney/maybe Sandra for Rupert, outside shot I know), whereas Tom/Colby/Candice have no one. He must also think he can sway Candice, which I think he can (note that Candice voted out Tom). Colby is alone now.

    In other words, I think it had nothing to do with the strength of the team, because they haven't been winning anyway, so why keep up that way of thinking, and why not move ahead to strategy?

    I wonder if JT is also hoping to work with Coach and Tyson on the other side.

    Also, isn't there some connection outside the game between JT, James and Russell? That might be coming into play as well.

    :rollin: for the impending Russell vs Rob Battle! "He's not playing with amateurs anymore."

    And seriously, does Rob kill at this game or what? He builds fire without flint, he runs the camp, and he leads the win at every challenge - physical and mental.

    Russell is playing it stupid I have to say. Not participating in the beach meditation was such a silly mistake, especially when they all knew what he was doing. How can he think that idol is going to help him when they all know he has it? It buys him three more days, that is all.

    I also thought targeting Coach was stupid when he's so obviously worshiping Rob. But then again, knighting him seemed to bring it in hook line and sinker, so maybe Russell is reading him better than I am.

    Moment when Russell's wife whacked him on the couch last night as they watched the show: Parvati wearing Russell's hat at the chocolate reward. :hat1:
  35. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    That's exactly what I thought! Voting along alliance lines when your tribe keeps LOSING (instead of voting out the person least likely to help you win challenges) is just STOOPID. This tribe is going from hero to zero very, very quickly.

    J.T. isn't too bright. He should have just told Rupert and Amanda, "James is injured badly enough that he can barely walk...tonight we vote him out and then next week, we vote with Candace to vote out Tom". I've never thought J.T. was as bright as others have...

    Russell will play the idol next tribal council and the person he wants gone will be gone. The next day, Russell will find the new immunity idol, which he will play at the following tribal where the next person he wants gone will leave. Repeat and serve. :lol:
  36. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Not so fast - if everyone knows he has an idol and plans to play it, all they need to do is either a) make him think he's getting the most votes so he'll play it, when in fact someone else is targeted or b) ensure that another target has more votes than Russell can scrounge up for Rob.

    Turning people against Rob is going to be difficult as long as there are two tribes - he's an asset at camp, and the biggest reason they keep winning challenges.

    Mind you, it's possible that Parvati already has Danielle in her court (royal reference, not tennis, :lol:), but I can't see them getting Jerri or Sandra. Courtney seems more the type to stick with the guys, and I also don't see her falling under Parvati's spell. Tyson might want to make a move on Rob, but I suspect he'd rather wait until after a merge, plus he'll want to keep at least one person ahead of himself on the boot list.

    Coach may have been honoured by Russell, but he still worships Rob.

    Here's how I think it could work: Russell, Parvati and one other person vote for Rob, while the rest of them split their votes 3-3 between Russell and Parvati. Either Russell or Parvati plays the Idol, and we now have a tie between Rob and one of them, and a revote. Rob gets three votes, Russell or Parvati get 6, case closed.
  37. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    There's an Insider video of JT talking about his vote, and he said pretty much what Jenny said--that they weren't winning anyway, so Tom wasn't much of an asset in challenges, and James was a sure vote, while Tom wasn't. When he voted for Tom, he said he thought Tom was a great guy, but there were too many leaders in camp.

    I got the distinct impression from the Insider videos that Tom was a source of some friction in the camp; he really doesn't like James or Rupert, and Rupert doesn't much like Tom, either.

    I can see Jerri turning on Rob. She was REALLY pissed at him in last week's Insider vids and she owes him one for Lex on the first ASS. Hard to say what Courtney might do; every now and then, a pale wraith crosses the screen and I remember that she's there. Same with Danielle--she is the Brett of this season.

    Yeah, but Rob isn't doing much to make Coach feel valued, and I think that, combined with Coach thinking that his word means something, might work against Rob there. Coach wants to be Rob's new Amber*, but he clearly isn't.

    *There's a pretty funny Insider vid of Tyson talking about how Rob had told him that he was Rob's new Amber. Then it turned out that Rob had also told Jerri that she was his new Amber. Tyson thinks maybe he shouldn't ask Rob about that quite yet because their relationship is still pretty new and he isn't sure Rob's feelings for him are deep enough for that kind of open, honest discussion :lol:.
  38. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Indeed, it did seem like Tom and Stephenie before him were just rubbing people the wrong way all over the place, and that shadow is on Colby now too. I don't quite understand why Amanda and James are loyal to Rupert, but then again, some people seem to like the guy and it worked for him in the first All Stars with whatsherface.

    Also glad to hear that I'm thinking the same way as my JT :)

    Good point about Jerri and Rob - at the same time, she sees what Parvati's all about and while she might be willing to work with her, I don't think she will want to risk/be seen as following her. Jerri really seems to have grown up and evolved since we last saw her, so I can see her making decisions that are thoughtful and strategic, as opposed to based on vengeance for Lex or high school-type drama. Definitely someone I'm watching this season.

    And yes the Coach thing is worth considering further. As it was happening, I'm yelling out "stupid, he worships Rob!" while hubby is saying, "but Russell's playing right into his values, and that's what matters to him most." Rob is a smart player as we all know, but if he has a weakness it might be in reading other people - Russell OTOH is pretty good at it, and seems to be speaking Coach's language.

    I'm also interested to know how much influence Tyson has over Coach as a third factor in this. Tyson knows how to play Coach, and I think since Brazil he's likely done a lot of honest introspection and game analysis on where he went wrong. My bet is he knows exactly what he's doing, is loving the Russell/Rob rivalry and is making full use of his prior relationship with Coach. I wonder what his plan is in regards to JT - old friend, or boot priority #1? Maybe both.

    It would be great to find out that Tyson is also working Danielle and Courtney - and that aside from Sandra, the tribe loyalty toward Rob has more to do with Tyson than we or Rob think.
  39. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Just watched a couple of the vids - JT made another point that I think it quite smart. They're losing anyway, so will likely go into the merge the weaker tribe, so he wants a strong 4. If he had gone with Tom and Colby, and Candice had gone along with it, that's not a strong 4 at all, IMO. They were already suspicious of JT, and Candice is clearly a free agent. The smart players on the other side would have split them up easily I think, but will have a much harder time breaking James/Amanda, and the extremely loyal Rupert. Plus, as I mentioned before, I think this alliance has a better shot of gaining strength from friends among the Villains.

    I was interested in Candice's vote so I also watched the TC voting. JT was actually really hesitant and said nice things about Tom, and Candice, who did not hesitate, was pissed she had to make that vote as it really should have been James in her opinion.

    So two things from that - even if JT had voted to keep Tom, Candice's vote would have sent him home anyway - but since Jeff doesn't reveal the total, it's possible no one realizes what she did. Second thing is, who tipped off Candice, and how was she so sure of JT's vote? Might be nothing, but might also show that someone is working on her, and I think it's JT.

    Also watched one of Jerri where she talked about watching the other tribe lose. She said she knows Colby and Rupert and she can see on their faces how much losing is killing them. Then she said that she sees the same thing tenfold on JT's face. I don't know if she's right there (JT likes to win clearly, but I think he has greater priorities in this game than that), but she's keeping an eye on people and I like that.

    Colby just seems miserable - I think at this point he's regretting doing this.
  40. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Third post in a row I know - obviously I am not working too hard this afternoon :p

    Thought this was interesting in the bios - each player lists their most respected player, and least respected:

    • Amanda and James said each other - there's a bond that will not be broken apparently
    • Candice, Coach and Colby all said Tom - if Coach had been on the Heroes tribe, what a difference that might have made!
    • Danielle says Parvati, and her least respected is Russell (only person who named someone playing now) - wonder what she's thinking now that they have teamed up??
    • Sandra said no comment, Russell said he respects no one, JT said himself as he was proud of what he accomplished, and Tyson also said himself, because well he's Tyson
    • Rounding it out - Courtney said Yau-Man, Jerri said Ethan, Parvati said Cirie (too bad about that), Rupert said Rudy, and of course Rob said Amber