Survivor: Blood vs Water (cast spoilers, don't enter if you don't want to know!)

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by genevieve, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,528
    I think they might not be factoring the past winners for the same reason they didn't factor Sandra. No one forgets Tina won, but it was so long ago and the game is so evolved now. And no one remembers Aras winning :p

    For Hayden, I'm wondering how many of the other players are BB fans, because his win was one of the more deserving ones in BB history, and they should take into account that he has the muscles, but also the social skills to win this thing. Maybe having a goofy annoying girlfriend is a good thing for his threat factor :)

    re laying it on thick with Vytas/Aras - I'd blame the producers/editors - this is their Big Emotional Journey story for the season, perhaps more so with Brad failing to get further and be the Big Alpha Star. Aras/Vytas are going along with it because they know it makes good tv and they likely also think it's not a bad thing to promote with the other players either, so they seem less of a threat - which seems to be working for the most part so far (only Tyson is targeting one of them - so far no one else has). When they switched tribes and Vytas started to tell his story again, it felt almost scripted.
     
  2. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,815
    I still can't place Aras and I've watched all shows ! :)
     
  3. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Up to now, no one has had to really give any thought to the two winners playing. Up to the last episode, they were on the same tribe, in the same alliance, playing together for all intents and purposes. And to be completely honest, there are folks that have more playing time than the two winners, which, for me, means that they have more experience and might be even bigger threats than the previous winners.

    Now the tribes have been reshuffled and Tyson realizes that if he doesn't get rid of Aras pretty quick, he will get to the merge and can make a run with his brother to go deep into the game. But, the show is making it look like he has an obsession with that, and when you get that kind of mindset your likely to either look really desperate and have your tribe turn on you or make a mistake and get yourself eliminated anyway. So, he really needs to chill out.

    Kat was obviously a girl playing amongst women. Her whining, pleading and begging just emphasized her youth. If she hadn't been eliminated this vote she would have been gone shortly there after. She was totally cringeworthy.

    I have no idea what's going on at this point. This game is different than any previous seasons and predictability isn't even an option any more. I'm just waiting to see what happens next.
     
  4. Ares

    Ares Guest

    I think it's pretty safe to say Mrs Rupert was sacrificed because Tina and Monica are banking on their previous alliance with Aras. All the talk about trust..where did they think she would go post-merge? They had her vote for as long as they needed it. I like Tina and Monica, so I hope their plan works out, but I'm not optimistic that it will.
     
  5. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    31,192
    vytas' tribe is so captivated with him, he should be able to get that boys' band up and running any day now

    he will do a great job with jury questions
     
  6. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    8,918
    Why does John keep offering the immunity idol clue to Monica? He's already made the point of painting her as a target (and she's WAY less of one now with Brad gone). This is the little bit of power he has and he just throws it away. Why not offer it to Tina or someone he could potentially make an ally? Or offer it to Tyson to put a bit of a target on a good physical competitor? I don't understand John at all.

    P.S. Am I the only one who thinks that Tyson is a MUCH bigger a****** than everyone else, including Colton? Colton is a stupid, young, pampered, sheltered goof. Tyson is older and wiser and should know better but is as much a jerk. That makes him so much worse, IMHO.
     
  7. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    30,689
    Every player has refused the clue, treating it as poison. I suspect John keeps giving it to Monica so to not paint a target on anyone else. Too bad they can't all just vote to stop the clue nonsense.

    Could Kat be more of a pathetic mess? Oy. I had to laugh...she clearly wanted her boyfriend to switch with her, and Hayden not only managed to stay in the game, but got her to say it was the right thing to do AND she gave him credit for "offering" to switch - which might have happened, but not in the edit we got. And his albatross of a partner is out of the game. Well played, Hayden. He will indeed be a force at final TC if he gets there.

    Of course, Vytas is pretty slick too. He's a better player than Laura B, so it's better that he remain in the game - but he's a huge threat and that was possibly the wrong move. But Tina's no fool - she knows if the big power player brothers are split up, the very next target will be the last couple in the game, and someone might remember that this couple also has a former winner in it. I think that may have swayed Tina's vote more than Laura telling Vytas straight up that he was going home.

    It seems likely John will come back into the game, but I hope it's Laura M (conveniently giving Tina another couple to hide behind, and possibly Laura/Monica an ally, as they can blame that vote on Aras).

    I think Tyson is overplaying, which is his style, and will likely be his undoing (again). But the idea of him being worse than Colton is laughable.
     
  8. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,953
    Laura B. actually thinks she is part of the girls alliance? Well, yeah, given that they are all girls, okay. But she's the first one voted out from the lot of them if it was down to them. That she stepped forward like she was the leader of the girls telling Vytas he was getting voted out had me cracking up, and knowing instantly she was toast. I've watched every season of this show, and I still don't get the 'social aspect' of this freaking game. But I sure as hell know enough you don't go running your mouth like that when you are the least liked and accepted of an alliance, especially when the numbers are that low and a merge is coming. I don't see her lasting more than a few minutes in that pole challenge next week, so I won't miss her at all.
     
  9. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,528
    Good point - but otherwise a terribly dumb move. Laura B has zero chance of winning the game, whereas Vytas has probably the best odds for winning of anyone.

    Laura B said it herself - she's not good as socializing and comes from a smaller world, and the other players could have capitalized on it rather than shoo it away. Someone like that just needs to belong, so nurture it and she's yours. Laughable that she or anyone thought the girls alliance was strong - um, hello, the last two people they voted out were girls. And, as I say every single year, girls will always turn on each other when there's a man in play. The thing Vytas has to be careful of now is that just about all the women think he's their special friend, and they will be full of vengeance if scorned.

    And why is trust such a theme now? To hear Jeff this season, there's nothing more important in the game, and I have to disagree. Sure, it's a factor, but did Sandra win twice on trust? Did Parvati win on trust? Thoughts?

    John does not know how to play this game. Like others have said, why target Monica other than out of habit and more likely simply having NO IDEA what else to do with it? I really hope he doesn't come back in the game, because he's useless. Please please please let it be Laura M.

    And yes, Kat is pathetic. A child - can't remember his exact words in confessional, but Hayden as much as said he's the grown up who has to take care of her. Kat is a good example of a player who should not have come back as the second time around seems to have taken her a few steps backwards. And for a returning player, way to put a huge target on your boyfriend's back by telling everyone he could win (and he stupidly saying in front of everyone that he thought he was in a good position) - no wonder he's relieved she's gone. He just needs as many beefy big nice guys around as long as possible and he can skate right to the end.

    Tyson is overplaying for sure, but I think it's on purpose. I think he likes to make good tv by saying all kinds of colourful stuff, and I think having played twice he decided that rather than do what Boston Rob did - a very careful, methodical, concentrated game that won him the prize - he's decided to go big or go home by being more of everything we've seen from him in the past - more aggressive, more competitive, more colourful. He might also be counting on a few key individual immunity wins that will carry him to the end - for now he has Aras/Vytas in his sights and will no doubt put the spotlight on Tina at some point and maybe even Hayden, and whoever comes back in the game; all to save himself and get closer to the end. If he can make it to final, he'll have a good case for having been a force in the game, won a lot of comps, survived a bad shoulder, been himself, been loyal to his alliance (ie Gervase).

    Back to Vytas - definitely one of the smartest social players we've seen on Survivor - the question is, when will the other smart players wake up and get rid of him?
     
  10. smurfy

    smurfy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2001
    Messages:
    4,824
    I always dislike when the players talk about 'deserving to play, to be here', but certain players over the years do not deserve to play, such as quitters like Na'onka and Colton. I have added Laura B to that list. She just did not get it! I was so hoping she would be gone, even though the smarter game play would be to vote out Vytas. Also I am still crushing on Vytas and hope he wins. Such a nice man, but last night got a little bit of a view of his bad boy side which is still attractive. He is so playing everybody!.
    Tyson - I do like you, want you to go far, but I just feel like his edit is telling us he is getting setup for a blindside. I assume the alliance of 5 - Ciera is at the bottom, or if she plays it right, she could be like Vytas and make herself useful??
    Tina - so impressed that no one thinks of voting her out, former winner, and key on challenges the team lost.
    Monica is bugging me less than previously.
    I hope Laura M wins Redemption Island - of the 3 - since she has an alliance - will provide more interest and she is a physical threat. John and Laura B are just there.
    Kat - what a young, naive, immature girl. But looks like you got a good guy. I agree - we don't know the editing - but Hayden was not harmed and is in a good position. Her lack of self esteem is sad, she actually was not bad on the puzzle, but I felt she talked herself out of possibly doing well. Seems like Hayden is respectful to her, which is good, hopefully she will mature.
    I am really enjoying this season.
     
  11. Rogue

    Rogue Sexy Superhero

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Messages:
    953
    But does Laura M really have an alliance? Wasn't she left out of the original alliance of 5 that included Tyson, Gervaise, Monica, Tina, and Aras?

    I agree that she has better game and is great at challenges, so of the people currently in RI, she would be the most interesting returnee.
     
  12. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,528
    If Laura M returns, her fate might depend on how well her daughter has integrated with the men on her tribe. She's the odd girl out for sure, but with Tyson going after Aras aggressively, she has the opportunity to make herself useful to someone - especially if she brings along an extra vote who also happens to be a very strong physical player.

    Thinking further about Tyson, aside from winning the game, his mission here might be to erase any memory of Russell outsmarting him last time around. He might be thinking that there's a good chance he won't make it to the end anyway as he knows he's a threat and he knows he can piss people off, so when he does go, he wants to be able to own it - that he was a threat, and even that he overplayed, rather than having been played.
     
    smurfy and (deleted member) like this.
  13. smurfy

    smurfy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2001
    Messages:
    4,824
    Sorry - I meant 'loved one', not an alliance. Just that if she came back, she is part of a pair - and should then be a target, whereas if Laura B or John come back - both have no 'loved one'. If either of those 2 come back - since they don't seem to be good game players - not as much entertainment potential.
     
  14. jamesy

    jamesy of the United States of America

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    10,227
    Assuming they start over the whole RI cycle again at merge, I can see them throwing John back in if he wins this last duel.
     
  15. Prancer

    Prancer Dysteleological Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,856
    Parvati has said that you need at least two people you can absolutely trust to get to the end because you need people who will vote with you and watch your back to get you there.
     
  16. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,528
    Agree with that, but to me that's more about alliance making and social manipulation than trust. I'm not saying trust doesn't matter, but they seem to be really hammering home that theme this season like it's the key to Survivor.

    Another thought: Tina won her million by forging a sekret alliance early in the game and keeping it completely under wraps. I don't even recall it being shown on the show much until the end - we knew Tina and Colby and the chef were aligned and working together (as did all the other players), but IIRC it came as a surprise that Tina and Colby had made an solid agreement near the beginning of the game.

    I wonder if Tina is trying to pull a similar trick - the game has evolved a great deal from her day, but I could see her trying to loop in someone like Aras or Vytas and keep it on the down low from everyone - including the producers. Tina and Colby apparently aligned on the way to TC one night - a journey that I don't recall ever seeing footage of - so maybe she's found a way to do the same? I don't know how many cameras they have at each camp 24-7, but I could see where there might be opportunities for quick conversations off camera. Personally I'd do that - Jeff can be very leading in TC and when they are all together at challenges, and for a sekret alliance to work, no one can know. Just ask Hayden :)

    So maybe she already had a deal with Aras on the assumption that she'd bring in Katie and he'd bring in Vytas. Maybe she even found a way to let Katie know before the switch up who she had selected as their sekret alliance - challenges can go on for hours, so if they've got a plan worked out in advance, it would be easy enough to tip off the other person.

    I'm probably overthinking this, but Tina's smart enough to know that she's going to have to play a lot harder this time around, and to have thought of ways she could do it.
     
  17. Prancer

    Prancer Dysteleological Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,856
    Trips to tribal council are never shown because the contestants are transported to TC--they walk to a van or paddle to a boat and are taken from there--and we aren't supposed to know that.

    There are no cameras at camp 24/7; all cameras are pulled out overnight (that was not true in the early seasons but has been for some time) and they are sometimes pulled altogether if the weather is really bad, which is why you will see people talking about how horrible a storm was but we never see footage.

    Also, there is only one camera in camp most of the time; I believe they put more in just before a TC and on other occasions so they can catch all the plotting and scheming, but there is usually one camera there. That's because most of the time there is nothing going on; just about everyone who has ever been on the show has said that coping with boredom is one of the hardest things about being there. They do hide a lot in editing, but I suspect there is also a lot of stuff that happens that just doesn't get filmed, too.
     
  18. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,528
    Interesting! Even more opportunity than I thought then. I know I would definitely try to hide my key alliance from the camera, just to keep it from Jeff the blabbermouth.

    The other strategy I've always imagined from my couch (!) is to have a couple of relationships that were more about information than alignment. People who I would trade info with, but not necessarily vote with. People who I could hopefully count on to tip me off when I was in danger, and try and steer things in another direction if I was the target.

    That's where the whole trust thing has me thinking - it came on hard and heavy with Laura B blabbing to Vytas, which was stupid, but in a way shouldn't have changed things either. And Jeff made it like trust means that you have to be aligned through and through - not only vote together, but make all decisions together, and if you go outside that, you're not trustworthy. Whether or not that's the reason they all voted against Laura B instead of Vytas is questionable, but Jeff sure acted like it was.

    As genevieve already pointed out, Tina might have switched her vote for an entirely different reason, and who knows what Monica was thinking. Vytas is quick on his feet too, so he no doubt used the information to make a lot more moves than we saw.

    The producers continue to want to make this show about virtuous things - personal journeys, trust, integrity, honesty, emotional moments, etc. Personally, I'm in it for the lying, cheating, manipulating, backstabbing and deviousness :EVILLE:
     
  19. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2001
    Messages:
    5,125
    I think the thing with Laura B and trust comes down to "game trust" (a term coined by one of the recappers at TWOP who I find somewhat annoying but I do like this term) - i.e. can I trust this person to make the moves that I need/want them to make with me going forward. And I think that Laura had shown that she was a bit of a wild card and unpredictable so you did have trouble trusting what she would do in the game. That said, I still think that the right move would have been to get rid of Vytas given that we are close to the merge and he is definitely a threat to win, not to mention an individual immunity threat. And Laura's unpredictability has not impeded an "anyone but me" strategy in terms of voting, not to mention if she does become too unpredictable, I think she is fairly easily disposed of down the line.

    But even though I think it was a bad move to take Laura out, I am happy about it as a viewer because I didn't particularly like her or think she was a great player so I'd rather watch someone like Vytas play. And if she had gone really far, Rupert would have gotten more camera time at the reunion, which I definitely don't want.
     
  20. Prancer

    Prancer Dysteleological Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,856
    Jeff said last year that we would probably never see the pre-jury boots on stage at the reunion again, but I will be surprised if they don't reverse themselves just so they can get Rupert up there to pontificate.
     
  21. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    7,223
    I hope not.
    I am very glad Kat (the worst player in the world) went home and Laura was sent to RI. I'm in love with Vytas and Ares. Don't judge me.
     
    smurfy and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,528
    Agree with this concept for sure - it's the unpredictable "I'm the swing vote!!" types you need to get rid of, even before the people who you know are on the other side of whereever you are.

    The question is, was Laura B one of those? I see her more as willing to go with the flow and easily taken in by an alliance who knows how to appeal to her social insecurities. Sure, she might have been swayed by another offer, but I think Tina and Monica could have kept her in line for now.

    To me, Vytas is far more the unpredictable and therefore ungametrustworthy right now. There's little reason to believe that all his professions of loyalty to the girls were anything more than saving his butt. Katie knows he was with the guys on the other tribe, although perhaps after John and Brad went she thought that he and Caleb were with her and Ciera? Does she not realize they were just useful for their votes, knowing they'd do anything to stay?

    I wonder again if Tina realizes is counting on Aras and Vytas to go with her, Katie and Monica, and potentially Ciera, and maybe even get Laura M onside if she returns? Realizing that Tyson and Gervase might be gone from the original 5 alliance now that they are getting to know the other team (and Katie telling her about the boys alliance), I wonder if Tina is rooting for John to come back and not wanting anything to do with his old tribe.

    I'll say again I think Vytas may have a big problem coming up because several of the women seem to think he's their special friend (and Aras for that matter - see Laura M), and they could turn vengeful if scorned.

    But in the end I do agree with everyone that I'm glad to see Laura B and Kat gone, and hope John goes too. I'd much rather see real players than amateurs.
     
  23. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    30,689
    I find it interesting that Laura B has had SUCH the newbie player aura - her husband has played this game 512 times! Even if he refuses to share his secrets at home, hasn't she had enough opportunity watching him on teevee to pick up a few pointers? Maybe it's jsut that she's drunk the Rupert kool aid and can't see anything beyond "he's everyone's favorite" (er...).
     
  24. Catherine M

    Catherine M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    7,983
    Decent episode. Not sorry to see Mrs. Rupert go. And John was an non-entity for me too so him leaving wasn't any big deal.

    And as soon as Jeff started describing the immunity challenge, I knew Vytas was winning it. You could just see his math professor/yoga instructor mind whirling away.

    Sorry to see Aras go but the target on his back was HUGE. And it looks like Tina could be next which isn't a surprise since she's a winner too. has a love one and out of Tyson's little group.
     
  25. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2001
    Messages:
    5,125
    I was shocked at some of the rookie mistakes Tina made today and looks to be making next week. Telling Monica that she is number 5 in the alliance is about the stupidest move in the book and going off on Tyson next week doesn't look any smarter. I loved Tina's game play her first time around and it seemed like she had returned to form in the first few weeks but that just flew out the window this week. Yikes!

    Ciera stepped up her game this week as did Tyson and Gervase. Knew Aras had to be gone after the conversation between him and Vytas earlier in the episode...that scene just smacked of Aras being set up for the fall.
     
  26. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    8,918
    Did the three couples never think that they should form the six-person voting block? Don't they realize the minority would feel threatened by six people who all share a common bond? Not to mention that two of those six were already winners. Those six had targets on their backs...but didn't even need to worry about those targets as they had a winning voting block. Are they unaware of what a snake Tyson is? I would never work with someone like him. And we see Ciara (and Mom) work with Hayden and Caleb who surely would have eliminated Ciara when the time came, but saw her as such a non-entity that they probably didn't bother to learn her name. Plus Ciara knew they turned on John and then Brad.

    Aras' facial expression made me think he threw the challenge. That he wanted to give the win to his brother.

    I was thinking that was poorly chosen wording as opposed to, "we're the top four and Monica, we want you voted out fifth instead of sixth". Instead, I think Tina was thinking that she and her daughter and Vytas and Aras were givens, so she was thinking about the others in the top six and wanted to clarify that Monica held a more important position than Gervaise. She just picked the wrong words saying "you're fifth" which sounds like Monica didn't have a shot at the top four.
     
  27. Catherine M

    Catherine M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    7,983
    Vytas was on twitter last night during the west coast airing of the show and was pretty honest about how much he screwed up after winning immunity. That he went back to camp with the necklace and sat on his ass and didn't bother to work with Hayden/Caleb/Ciera about their votes cause Aras assured him that Gervase & Tyson were 100% with him and therefore he (Aras) wasn't in any danger. That being over confident on Survivor is a one way ticket out of the game.

    Seems like Tina picked up some of that over confidence too while calling the shots the last couple of boots and her/Katie/Vytas are in real trouble now. And I agree, Very sloppy play by Tina.
     
  28. Catherine M

    Catherine M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    7,983
    Forgot to add that one of the reasons that could cause Tina to loose her sh*t next week is that its believe in Survivor-land that she, Aras, Gervase and Tyson had a pre-show deal. Should have realized that once Tyson and Gervase were solos and not in a pair anymore, that things would be different especially when she and Aras came to the merge with their pair.
     
  29. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    7,223
    Tyson all of the sudden found the idol. Why didn't he look for it earlier?
     
  30. Rogue

    Rogue Sexy Superhero

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Messages:
    953
    Monica ultimately did make the right decision to go with the group of singles plus 1 duo, but did she really think that when it got down to 2 duos and 1 single, that the single would wind up in 5th spot? The 2 duos would be fighting over her to make final 3.