Survivor: Blood vs Water (cast spoilers, don't enter if you don't want to know!)

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by genevieve, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Agree. When he kept saying "I apologize for ... whatever" that says he has no real idea of what he did wrong and was figuring just saying sorry would cover it. I have little respect for people who think just saying sorry makes everything all right and clears their conscience, without really understanding what they did wrong and committing to changing their ways in future.

    Agree and that's part of what I meant by overthinking that vote. Plus Laura B *is* a wild card - which can be a very bad thing at merge. If they were to merge now, Laura B might easily find a home in the other tribe of loved ones who are down in numbers and need anyone they can get.

    Tyson seems to have forgotten his first season, when he was on a winning tribe with large alliance set to obliterate the other tribe at merge. But Erinn - the low man on their totem pole - defected, which IIRC was the turning point that opened the door to JT and Stephen riding it right to the end.
     
  2. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    On the whole men vs. women being called by their last name, I can't speak for other women but I personally hate being called by my last name or, even worse, by a shortened version of my last name that is frequently used as a nickname for both of my brothers. Anyone who does try to call me one of those versions usually gets informed pretty clearly how much I don't like it. I think that Probst using last names in Survivor is kind of weird and eyeroll-inducing because it is kind of sad how badly he wants to be Brad's BFF and he is a major sexist in other ways, but the last-naming of guys is more a symptom of his sexism rather than the actual problem itself. And referring to women as "girls" doesn't offend me at all and I still don't understand why it's a big deal. I use it myself when referring to having a girls' night out or going out with the girls and I don't think I'm sexist. Some things are just not worth making a big deal over.

    On to the actual episode itself, just some random comments:
    -- Most surprising to me was Monica mentioning that Brad is a lawyer in real life. I wondered if I had actually heard it wrong because I would have never guessed it, but apparently I heard right. Crazy. I would not want him as my lawyer if his Survivor confessionals and tribal council comments are any indication of how eloquent he is or how good he is at making an logical argument. I particularly thought his reasoning last week about why to get rid of people who don't have a partner in the game made zero sense.
    -- I thought Monica was kind of gross at the Redemption challenge where she condescendingly said that maybe Candice should take a lesson from listening to what other people said about Brad when Candice said it was Marissa/Rachel's word against Brad. I don't think Candice ever said that she actually believed Brad's word and was just trying to be diplomatic now that she has to live with him.
    -- I am :rofl: right there with everyone else over Caleb being so proud of being a swing vote and his "big kahunas" and was almost expecting him to get voted out soon for it. Definitely a "stupid player" type of confessional that doesn't bode well for him.
    -- Even though we haven't seen a lot of her, I really like Tina's daughter Katie...the way she just casually said that her toenail was falling off with no drama or whining and went through all of the issues made me think that she is a tough girl, even if she hasn't been kicking butt at challenges or anything. If they both make the merge, it would be very interesting to see if she and Tina team up and what damage they could do.
    -- Someone asking upthread about what Laura B did that was so annoying...even though they haven't shown much of her, I can't say that I would be at all surprised that someone married to Rupert would also be super annoying.
    -- And I agree that voting out Laura M was playing too hard, too fast and moving too early. For the first tribal council, the easy vote was probably the right one. I'm kind of curious as to how they got Monica to go along with it, although maybe it was similar to what happened with John over the Rachel vote where he realized that arguing too much about it was going to put a target on his own back.
     
  3. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Family business specializing in personal injury - http://www.ckfirm.com/ Bet they get a lot of clients just on his name, because from what I can tell he's been a big deal in Florida for many years, and his family seems well established there as well.
     
  4. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

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    If I recall correctly, Laura B (Ruben's wife) was an extremely strong swimmer & helped the men in the tribe win swimming competitions. I did think she had too much to say before tribal council to these returnees. They know all about strategy & alliances but it didn't hurt her in the end...this week.
     
  5. jamesy

    jamesy Well-Known Member

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    To me this seems like a continuation of his strategy to be both ruthless and "nice". Like when he got his tribe to vote out John but threw his vote to someone else. He wants to have these big moves in his pocket while not alienating people along the way in case he needs them later and not many people are effective at that strategy IMO.
     
  6. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    You might like Parvati's Survivor After Show then (if you can watch it). She asks direct questions and most of the boots are pretty frank. http://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/after-show/video
     
  7. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    I think it's just a matter of what one thinks is a big deal (comparing the first part of the post to the ending).

    I do get that "girls" is very much back in fashion, and has been for some time. I'm less irritated by it now than I was when - quite frankly - I was barely no longer a girl myself. Back then it was beyond unacceptable, and when I later encountered young women only a few years younger than I embracing the "girls" culture I had a really hard time with it. Now? whatevs, as you say, there are worse things to be called. But in settings such as Survivor, where Jeff always refers to female players as girls? it's definitely dismissive. Do I lose sleep over it, or refuse to watch the show? no. But I do think language matters, so I notice it, that's all.
     
  8. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    I have never noticed Jeff call the female castmembers "girls." :confused: Does he really? He seems to say "the women" a lot.

    The male castmembers, now, they say "girls" a lot, especially when talking about the younger women. If the older women are involved, it's sometimes "ladies."

    I do think it's funny that he refers to them collectively as "guys." He's taken some flack for it. I just read a long and snarky article about why it is inappropriate to refer to classes full of students as "you guys," and it made me think of Jeff all the way through.

    But I refer to classes as "guys." "Hey, guys!" "Wrap it up, guys!" "See you guys Monday!"
     
  9. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    The "N" word (for African-Americans) and the "F" word (for gay men) get used sometimes and there are cases when it's not a big deal, especially with members of the group in question using it amongst themselves. But we have to look at the bigger picture, at what other people think and feel about various words. If we know there are some people who find a term offensive and hurtful, why not stop using it while there's another word that's just as easy to use instead?
     
    rjblue and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I do that too when referring to a group that includes both men and women. I think it's one of those words that's evolved into a different meaning that its original form. My bet is the criticism comes from older people or those who tend to get stuck on dictionary definitions.

    Even there, the 2011 edition of the Oxford English Dictionary says: guy n. a man; (guys) people of either sex. So :p to the haterz!

    I don't think calling someone a girl is in the same category. But like many terms, if it's said with hate or condescension or prejudice then it's not good; if it's said with respect and good intention, then I don't see the problem. I've never met a woman who has a problem with being referred to as a girl unless it's by some old fashioned male boss who thinks all females belong in the secretarial pool. In fact, I think a lot of women are flattered when called a girl.
     
  11. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    That's not the point. We don't get to decide for other people what is and what is not offensive and/or hurtful. If our words have a negative impact on others, especially when there are other words which are just as easy to use, why would we not stop using words that hurt others?
     
  12. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    This. I probably didn't express myself very well before and I didn't mean to imply that words/names people use never words matter. But I've rarely seen a situation where "girls" appears to be intended to be derogatory and the only time I was offended by someone using it was in a situation much like Jenny described where a CRA auditor who told me he would be nice to me because I'm a young girl and even then, it wasn't the term he used, it was more the condescension he displayed. When it comes to Survivor, as I said above, I think that Jeff is absolutely a sexist, I just think that referring to women as girls is not a good example of his sexism.

    And I use guys all the time to refer to co-ed groups or even to all female-groups. I probably shouldn't be surprised that the PC-police have a problem with that, but seriously?
     
  13. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I definitely see what you are saying, but if we had to stop using a word or phrase every time someone was offended, there might be little left to say. There are words and phrases I don't like and therefore don't use, but I can't expect everyone to stop using them when I'm the only one (or at least one of a very few) that has a problem with it.

    As with other discussions on this topic, I think context and intention are key. Most words and phrases have different connotations depending on who says them, the context they are said, the intention of the speaker, the people who are being spoken to, and the people within earshot. Apparently there are instances when the n world and the f word for gay men are entirely acceptable for example.

    Back to the original point - girls - I grew up a time when the word woman was loaded with all kinds of political and sociological issues. Sure, it's the right word in many instances and I use it all the time - but never when referring to myself, because I don't think of myself in that context. To me, girl is not limited to females of a certain age - my female relatives in their 70s also refer to themselves and their friends as girls, generally using woman in the broader context.

    I don't know who's got a problem with girls, but my bet is their issue is primarily with who is saying it in what context and with what intention - not the word itself. Oxford provides some insight:

    girl n. 1. a female child. 2. a young or relatively young woman. (girls) informal women who mix socially or belong to a group; a person's girlfriend. 3. dated a female servant.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  14. Catherine M

    Catherine M Well-Known Member

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    I thought for sure Vytas was a goner but lucky for him (1) Kat has a big mouth and (2) Tina wants him to father her grandbabies so he gets to stick around.

    Next week looks like its more of the Vytas show. I guess with Brad gone bye bye, he's the new favorite of the editors. And Probst.
     
  15. halffull

    halffull Loving this colourful fall season!

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    Tina should have been gone. She messed up twice in the challenge ~ not bringing the thing from the water and then messing up the puzzle several times. Now she was only 1 of two to do both those things but the clincher should be she is now also on a tribe with her daughter.
     
  16. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Although Kat is annoying, I agree that there was way more reason to get rid of Tina or Vytas. The upside is I got the two best laughs of the season so far - Kat spelling Vytas as some odd combo of Venus and fetus, and her cry at the end, "who wants to date someone who doesn't even make it to the merge?!!" :rofl:

    They gave us the loved ones spilling the beans to the returnees on the other tribe, but I was interested in what would have been the conversation with Tina and Katie - Katie is supertight with Ciera, but given that Tina just blindsided her mother, one wonders how that will shake out. In a way the producers wrecked an interesting dynamic by not switching things up earlier or merging, because now the family ties are not a factor for half of them so we don't get any blood vs water moral struggling.
     
  17. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

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    I'm just glad Brad is gone. :p
     
  18. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    eys, I noted that after my ranting last week about how they overthought that plan, it actually worked out perfectly - Laura M beat Brad and got him out of the game, exactly as they wanted. However, they thought it would make Monica more loyal, but since their group of 5 is now split that's not really a factor, and at this point at least, Laura M looks likely to return to the game, and she ain't happy!
     
  19. Catherine M

    Catherine M Well-Known Member

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    I still don't know why Tina's name never came up so that must show how well she's playing the social game this time around. Or the rest of the tribe is really not thinking about her being a pair with Katie which isn't very smart.

    I loved Kat's spelling of Vytas too! That was indeed hysterical! Poor Kat, she's not too bright.
     
  20. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Seeing her high schoolish reaction makes me think she did indeed blab when she got home - for those who don't watch Big Brother, one of the players (Elissa) this summer was the sister of a former player (Rachel) who recently got married, and Hayden and Kat were at the wedding. She said Kat goes early - and while it's not that early, it's second from her tribe and pre merge, so I could see her whining about it to Hayden's friends.

    Hayden's alleged result, for those who like to spoil -
    he goes far, perhaps F4 even as I believe the spoiler was "to the end," but does not win. Given the way he's playing and his edit, I can see this being true, but I remain hopeful that the ditzy Elissa got her facts wrong, or that Hayden was smarter than Kat and managed to misdirect people - after all, Kat didn't even make the jury to see how it all went down.

    Survivor fans were PISSED at Elissa spoiling like that on the live feeds - she said it several times over the summer - and many wondered how the producers felt about it given that Elissa and Rachel are CBS darlings (Rachel was on BB several times, and the Amazing Race) and Hayden is another of their "stars" (BB winner and first BB player to also play Survivor).
     
  21. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    funny how, after all the Culpepper adoration from Jeff, Brad's departure was pretty low key. No more Brad show! :cheer: And Laura M is a total brick (that's a compliment). How is it that her daughter is SO terrible at...everything ?!? :lol: Even if Laura figured out why her tribe turned on her, it's not like she would want to throw the challenge, but that was great. That was kind of a silly challenge, though, at least compares to some of the others they've had at RI this season.

    The tribe switch - well, something had to be done to help those poor loved ones! :lol: Tyson is way overplaying - but it seems to be working, for now. He's right about targeting Aras, but wouldn't it be smarter to start by targeting one of the loved ones first - either Ciera because she's the odd woman out (literally) and would likely be loyal - or take out Hayden because he's the biggest competitor - so that the returning players have the upper hand? I have no problem believing that Ciera and Mr Colton would later flip to vote out Aras if it mean saving their own skins. And the completely Russell-ian strategy of eating all the food and generally being a jerk, well, we'll see how long that works :lol:

    Oh, lordy, Tina continues to be the master. HOW did she escape this week with nary a thought to voting her out, after the epic fail on the swimming leg, the panicked fail on the puzzle, and having her loved on join her tribe (and Tina being pretty open about how awesome that is)? AND she's a previous winner!! I don't think Tina will win this season, but I would love for it to happen - if only because it would seriously fcuk with Jeff to have the only 2-time winners be women :p

    Nothing can ever top the way Kat went out the first time, but nice to see she reacts just as badly when she knows she's a target as when she has no clue. I figured she was leaving, since I had seen the spoiler, and she's been pretty much a non-entity this season. I was surprised that Vytas didn't point to his strength being a necessity to win challenges as a reason to keep him, but the way he played the loyalty card in TC was pretty brilliant. If Tina can't win, I want it to be him.

    Monica is already more interesting without Brad in the game. Or at least the editors are giving us a better edit.
     
  22. zaphyre14

    zaphyre14 Well-Known Member

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    If Kat did indeed go around babbling about ratting out the laldies as much as editing says, and then lied about it , then I'm not surprised the ladies turned on her. A lot of the game is about trust and once broken, it's really hard to win back. But I didn't care for her so I don't really care if she comes back from RI or not. I knew as soon as Jeff said "Balance beam" that the guys would have trouble with it. The guys always have trouble with balance beams (yay for girls' gymnastics classes!) and in a mixed-gender challenge it's nice to have one that doesn't depend upon physical strength.

    I like Tina and was surprised that she screwed up so badly. I also was surprised at how much I liked Vytas and how he was handling being pitched into a bonded group of women. He was lucky that Kat shot herself in the foot. Hopefully it will give him enough time to make a place for himself in the tribe - and for the other bunch to boot out Aras. The guys there were incredibly stupid about the food, btw. I hope that comes back to whack them in the heads.
     
  23. smurfy

    smurfy Well-Known Member

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    Tyson just cracked me up. But I hope he does not get too cocky.
    Aras is ok, but I am so crushing on Aras. And I totally agree - why are they keeping Tina around?
    I am glad Kat is gone, something about her annoys me, and her comment about her boyfriend dropping her for not making it to the merge - what kind of relationship do you think you have?
    Glad Brad is gone, but seem so anti-climatic.
    Right now I am rooting for Vytas, Tyson, Tina (& by association Katie).
    I want gone: Laura B, Monica, John (surgeon)
    Intrigued by: Laura M
    Don't care: Ciera, Aras, Hayden (he does seem very involved) and anybody else I can not remember
    To me last nights episode was not bad, but paled to the previous episodes.
     
  24. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Agree that Brad's departure was anti-climatic - but that's RI for you. So different than a TC leading to a blindside vote, Jeff snuffing the torch and the loser wandering off into the darkness without even a chance for word. Instead now we get hugs and final thoughts in broad daylight; just not as dramatic.
     
  25. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    I think this is where Tyson lost it. Who could win then ? Tell me it won't be Monica. Brrrrrrrrrrrrr.
     
  26. smurfy

    smurfy Well-Known Member

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    my typing is bad, I am crushing on Vytas!!!
    MarieM -Monica will not win, Monica will not win
     
  27. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    If you were playing, what importance would you place on those who have already won (and those who are the loved one of someone who has won)? With one exception, everyone who is gone has been a non-winner. (Rupert is the only one who won who is gone.) Those remaining:

    Tina (and Katie)
    Aras (and Vytas)
    Laura B. (Rupert's wife), and if we include winning half a million on Big Brother, then
    Hayde (and Kat)

    I think two of the stupidest casts that have ever existed were the casts that let Sandra win a second time and the cast that let Rob win after his spouse Amber had won previously.
     
  28. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    PeterG - for the record, Rupert didn't win the game. He won fan favorite.
     
  29. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    But he won a million at the time.
    I crush on Vytas and Aras too. But they won't win :(
    Tyson was a good second option. Or Hayden.
     
  30. Ares

    Ares Guest

    If it comes down to Vytas vs Aras, I hope Aras wins again. How many episodes do we have to hear Vytas whining about not being the golden child? I know he was *trying* to sound vulnerable, but still their back-story is retold every week. The only response I have when I hear it is: it was 14 years ago, almost half their lives ago, move on (which I assume, in real life, they have).

    Plus I feel bad for Aras that the other half of his bromance is secretly sabotaging him behind his back. :lol: I hope Tyson fails at his evil plan.