Suguri vs Butyrskaya- who was the better skater

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by wristflick, Apr 16, 2013.

Butyrskaya vs Suguri- who was the better skater

  1. Butyrskaya

    75.3%
  2. Suguri

    24.7%
  1. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well to be fair to Butryskaya, she beat Hughes in the LP at 2001 Worlds. If anything was a sign that she lost favor, it was the 2000 NHK Trophy.
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The 2000-2001 season was a strange one for Maria. When it seemed the judges wanted to reward her she skated poorly and missed the opportunity, or even was held up; and when she skated well it is when they werent ready to reward her. Going through her events:

    Trophee de France- turned out in between her combination jump in the SP and still got 7 5.9s for presentation. Stated kind of a crummy LP with a fall and many mistakes and was given the win easily with scores up to 5.8 in technical and 5.9s in presentation. ABC thought Kirk should have won although that is probably silly as she skated well but was still a little girl with itty bitty jumps and no speed back then.

    NHK- was hosed.

    Grand Prix final- By how the judges scored her it seems they were willing to give her the win here, especialy as neither Slutskaya or Kwan skated spectacularly. However she flawed out badly and worse with every program. In the SP she fell on an underrotated triple flip and was generously scored with mostly 5.4s for elements and 5.8s for presentation (Kwan who skated perfectly with the same jumps had mostly 5.7s and some 5.6s for elements and 5.7s and 5.8s for presentation). Her first LP was poor with only 3 triples and kept her out of the Super final, then a horrendous 2nd LP with like only 1 clean triple saw Hughes beat her in the bronze medal match.

    Worlds- A combination of being hosed in the SP where she placed 5th and a really bad qualifying skate kept her off the podium. Her SP performance paled in comparision to her 2000 Worlds winning SP but was still good enough for 3rd or 4th over Hughes, which would have given her the bronze. Had she just skated decently in the qualifying that would have been enough to. Still there were some signs of support for her from some judges, a couple judges had her 2nd in the SP over a clean Kwan (her oridinals ranged from 2nd to 7th while Nikidinov who came 2 places above her in the SP in 3rd only had ordinals from 3rd to 8th), and a few judges placed her over Slutskaya's super difficult LP even with a doubled 2nd triple lutz, some shaky landings, and no true triple-triple.


    I think she gradually lost favor with inconsistent skating, which made the judges more willing to see some new people near the top, and it wasnt going to be at the expense of Irina or Michelle who continued to skate consistently, and her NHK defeat made her lose heart and willingness to fight as hard as well.
     
  3. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    And Maria was the European Champion in 2002 beating Irina. It was a not very well skated competition, but for that title I think she's glad she stayed. Besides it's really rare for skaters to retire one season before the Olympics. Most of them try to endure the pains and prolongue their careers till the biggest competition, and in Maria's mind, although being 4th in 2001 Worlds, she probably thought she was in a good position for an Olympic medal
     
  4. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    They were both good skaters, but I found Maria's programs and skating more interesting compared to Fumie, who I always found boring. Also Fumie never won a world title. Maria did, and she also won the Europeans which is quite prestigious.
     
  5. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

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    This.
    My vote goes to Fumie for her solid skating skills. While i agree she was not as musical as Maria, i still think she was strong enough in her interpretive abilities to allow for her skating skills to give her the edge. Love both these women, though.
     
  6. dorianhotel

    dorianhotel Active Member

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    If by better you mean skating by the true definition of pure basic skating skills than Suguri probably.
    If you define better by superior athletic ability, technique, artistry, and overall performance level than Butyrskaya.
     
  7. joubertelegant

    joubertelegant Member

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    Maria easily:

    1. She was a much better artist than Fumie was either an artist or technician
    2. At her best she attempted and delivered more technically demanding programs. She did a clean 7 triple long to win worlds. She did a few others of them. Fumie never did more than 5.
    3. She was a threat to win world titles and Olympic medals. Fumie was not. Maria had a chance of winning the 99, 2000, and maybe even 2001 worlds. She would have won the bronze at the 98 Olympics with even a decent skate, and silver at the 2002 Olympics with a perfect skate. Had there been a 2000 Olympics she could have won the gold potentially. Fumie never had a chance to win worlds and never had a chance to medal at the Olympics, unlike Maria.
    4. Maria did win worlds. Not only won it but won it in domineering fashion with all 1st place votes in every single program of those worlds. Fumie not only never won worlds, but never came anywhere close points wise or ordinals wise. That alone pushes her above Fumie without question.
    5. Maria won Europeans 3 times in the Slutskaya era. Fumie who never beaten Irina her whole career, couldn't have done this, and probably wouldn't even win 1.
    6. Maria was the leader after the short program in major events twice, and in a medal position after the short program at all of the biggest events from 97-2000. Fumie never led after the short program, and often wasn't in a medal position after the short program.
     
  8. joubertelegant

    joubertelegant Member

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    I am confused. Which skater had the lovely layback? Neither had a good layback.
     
  9. joubertelegant

    joubertelegant Member

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    They should in the sense we know Fumie wouldn't have won them. Fumie never beat Irina Slutskaya in their careers so how could she win Europeans ever, let alone 3 times as Maria did. Maria had to beat Irina to win all her European titlies.
     
  10. hirtmoles31

    hirtmoles31 Active Member

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    I am surprised it even close in the votes. Fumie was a nice skater, but Maria clearly achieved more. Both with 3 world titles, but Maria's world title is a huge edge, and Fumie won 2 of her 3 medals in post Olympic worlds which are always weaker (Maria 1 of hers). Fumie has only 1 grand prix win, while Maria has a whole bunch of them. Fumie does have the grand prix final title, but that is her only edge. Maria did better at both Russian Nationals and Europeans than Fumie did at Four Continents or Japanese Nationals, and back in their day both of Maria's events had a tougher field too. Maria was probably an underachiever too, who could have achieved even more had it not been for her nerves. She should have gotten the bronze easily at the 98 Olympics but choked, and could have won many more world medals than just 3, and maybe another world title. Fumie achieved all she possibly could have, and it is still less than Maria.