Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by nubka, May 31, 2012.

  1. alchemy void

    alchemy void Running away from POTO

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    3,807
    Diet Soda haterz! :lynch:

    I quit a few years ago for 3 months. Succumbed during an overnight shift and it was the best thing I've ever tasted. I drink 52 oz of Diet Mtn Dew most mornings. :p

    As for the ban, its totally stupid, and as others have mentioned, makes no caloric sense. People will continue to make poor choices and continue to be obese.
     
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,436
    No, it's just political grandstanding.
     
  3. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,476
    For me, 1. I use the plastic bags to dispose of cat litter rather than creating a catastrophic mess by dumping it straigh in the garbage or wasting plastic and money buying special bags just for cat crap and 2. I have something like twenty reuseable bags, none of which ever make it back to the car. I don't JUST go to the grocery store, this not being 1950. I usually stop when I have the chance and am out in the right direction anyway. When some stores were doing a 5-cent or 10-cent-per-bag discount, it was worth my time to remember, now it's not. (And as for charging per plastic bag, rewards work better than punishment.)

    Plastic shopping bags also work better as packing padding than peanuts or poppy paper....
     
  4. RobbieB

    RobbieB New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    40
    As others have said, if large sodas are banned then we also need to ban all other foods that are high in calories. Maybe we should work on the fast food industry...that seems like it would be more directly related to obesity.

    ---
    Robert Bryant
    Rhode Island bus charters
     
  5. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,615
    :lol: I can't remember the last time I got so much positive rep for a single post.

    I think soda probably is a major cause of obesity myself, along with other sweetened drinks like Gatorade and bottled tea and such. The number of calories that people consume in drinks is pretty ridiculous.

    But half-assed measures are rather pointless.
     
  6. Flatfoote

    Flatfoote Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    680
    I used to drink soda every day. Usually a bottle that I took two days to drink out of. Sometime or other, I just sort of started drinking more water than soda, and only have one every so often now. Yet I'm not only just as fat as I've always been, I'm even a few pounds more. So I don't think too much soda is the prime culprit.
     
  7. Scintillation

    Scintillation New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,727
    I've just been watching that "Weight of the Nation" series on HBO, and it has many interviews with many different dieticians and nutrition specialists who are extremely worried about how this country has compromised itself by becoming too fat. There's a lot of blame being thrown in many different directions--the companies making and marketing their unhealthy products, congress for being unwilling to step in and enforce major changes, schools for providing unhealthy food options to their students.
    And when it comes to the nation's kids, I agree that they are partially responsible for the current epidemic. Parents need to take responsibility too and make sure their kids know what healthy options are, and encourage them to stay active.
    But the adults in the series seemed to latch on to the idea that someone else to blame for their current state, which I think is bullsh*t. I got close to the point of type 2 diabetes and I have no one to blame but myself for it. I'm lucky because it's all still reversible but I have to change how I take care of myself. I have to make better choices, and no but me is able to make those decisions.
    Anyways, I applaud Bloomberg for trying but I think he's misguided. I liked the idea of posting caloric content at all the major chain restaurants, but this soda size ban won't do much to change anything.
     
  8. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    42,413
    I'm wondering if the whole point of this effort isn't about the huge sodas themselves, but stirring up a lot of attention to the fact that of the massive empty calorie content of sugary drinks. A lot of people are pretty oblivious to that. It doesn't make a lot of sense otherwise, but it certainly is getting people talking about what is in sodas.
     
  9. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Headstrong Buzzard

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,508
    Sorry, but the government has no business in that department. Regulate offensive/destructive behaviour yes (such as drunk-driving, etc.). But it sounds like Mayor Bloomburg is on a Puritanism craze.
     
  10. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,089
    I am the same with bags too. I get very annoyed when you might have 3-4 items, one of which is laundry or washing detergent. They always put it in a separate bag. When you ask them to put in the same bag as the others they say "but it might leak". I respond that is my problem. I do like self checkout for that. :)

    All my bags get used for my rubbish. Just silly to buy separate garbage bags.

    As for the soda drink debate, whether you agree with the proposal or not, it does get people discussing the health implications of these things. The reality is they are not healthy. And they are not a need. Water is a need, your body can't get by without it. Soda drinks are just a want which most people would acknowledge are not good for you and can contribute to obesity. But so can a diet of eating the wrong thing. My sister eventually had lapband surgery because she ate too much crap, drank too much soda drink and got very overweight. And even after that she still eats too much crap and then complains she has stopped losing weight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  11. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    13,320
  12. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    17,041
    :lol:
     
  13. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,615
  14. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    7,561
    That's really what they ought to crack down on, rather than the drink itself. When I lost 80 lbs on Weight Watchers, I had a can of Pepsi every day.

    I also think it goes back to parents/educators really emphasizing healthy eating. My parents were pretty good at feeding us healthy stuff most of the time, so I grew up with it. Though I'm obese according to BMI (regained after thyroid disease), I don't have any "fat" medical issues like high blood pressure or cholesterol, and I think it's because I still eat fairly healthy. Not enough movement and too much cheese and pasta sometimes :shuffle:

    Unfortunately healthy eating runs directly counter to the food industry's moneymaking interests. I don't think a 44oz drink exists because consumers asked for it. They're just as powerful as Big Pharma.

    Agreed. There's a local Panera-style cafe that does that, and I definitely :eek: and had the fruit salad instead of the baked potato soup when I went there!

    Honestly, I wish they'd work on making healthy food more affordable. Eating fresh fruit, vegetables and meat is incredibly expensive and a PITA. The Philly "food desert" experiment sounds interesting, I hope it works.
     
  15. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    18,917
    Isn't that what they're doing with this law?
     
  16. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    7,561
    :slinkaway Ought to read the article better ...
     
  17. Badams

    Badams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,977
    I totally agree. It's nice in the summer, when you can grow your own garden full of veggies, but in the winter it's almost impossible to eat very healthy. Pasta, rice, everything that's fattening and bad for you is way more affordable than out of season "fresh" veggies and fruits that have to be trucked in. :(
     
  18. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,615
    Well, right there is one problem--are pasta and rice bad for you?

    Depends on who you ask. Most diet experts still recommend that you get most of your calories from carbs. Rice is the primary diet staple of more than half the world's population. It's hard to believe it's bad for you.

    I think everyone agrees that eating fruits and vegetables is a good thing, but only for part of your diet. Dieticians are actually seeing a small percentage of middle and upper middle class children who are suffering from dietary insufficiencies because their well-intentioned parents are feeding them too much fruit. What do you eat for the rest?

    I'm not asking to get answers, just pointing out that it isn't all that easy to say what a healthy diet is.
     
  19. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,207
    And there's a world of difference in the glycemic index and overall health value of white pasta, rice, and bread versus whole wheat/whole grain pasta, rice, and bread. The overabundance of processed flours, their really high glycemic index, and the strain they put on the pancreas is, IMO, the number 1 reason diabetes is an epidemic. Pastas made with 100% whole wheat do not have the same affect on the pancreas.
     
  20. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    18,917
    And they taste like crap, IMO. :slinkaway
     
  21. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,207
    Well, there are lots of different kinds :lol: I've had whole wheat pasta that tasted terrible, but some of the cheaper brands are actually pretty okay. I prefer whole wheat to white after eating nothing but whole wheat for a couple years. White doesn't taste like anything at all.

    At the very least, if I don't want whole wheat, I buy the garden-fresh kind by someone (Barilla?) which is made with vegetables and semolina and has a fair amount of dietary fiber, which is what you need to lower the glycemic index.

    If people wanted to eat white pasta without the glycemic index issue, then they would have to eat it at the same time as something low-carb that has a lot of fiber. Of course, most people just threw butter and cheese or Prego tomato sauce on, or something similar with no fiber.
     
  22. Gil-Galad

    Gil-Galad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,188
    These pieces of advice kind of illustrate the problem of the fight against obesity.

    Damning rice and pasta as bad is of course wrong and not helpful.

    michiruwater on the other hand is absolutely right with her low-GI advice, but as a (future) health professional, I think only one third of the overweight people I have met, would understand it. And maybe one tenth of those would even consider to implement it. It sounds daunting "Never eat white pasta - or if you do you better make sure you have tons of fibers with it" (no offense meant, just taking this as an example for lots of similar advice in the media).

    Eating healthily these days seems to me like a domain for the affluent, the intellectual - for people who have the time, the money and the resources - the necessary societal pressure. We (health professionals) don't reach the people we need to reach. We make it way too complicated. And now governments think that they can force people into healthy lifestyles by new laws and taxation. Because that has worked so well in the history of mankind.
     
  23. Badams

    Badams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,977
    I guess I should have specified. The healthier wheat pasta and brown rice etc...is more expensive. On a tight budget, people won't buy it. I am well aware that not all of these things are bad for you, but that's not really what regular people are lead to believe. You'd be amazed at how many people either don't know how to read a food label, or don't even bother looking. And let's be honest...it's not cheap to feed a family healthy foods all the time in some areas, places where we have 6 months of winter, for example. If the government wants us all to eat healthy, perhaps they should make eating healthy affordable and possible for everyone. And I didn't even start discussing school lunches...:lol:
     
  24. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,972
    I like the Ronzoni smart taste pasta, though I don't have pasta very often. The whole wheat and the rice pastas are generally terrible, imo. (And living in woo woo central, I encounter them a lot.)

    I suspect that the bigger key is the portioning of the pasta. As a kid, we'd use a pound of spaghetti, a pound of hamburger, and a jar of Ragu to make dinner for six or seven people, possibly with a salad. Maybe not.

    How many servings would you get out of that today?

    Plate sizes have also gotten quite a bit bigger, and studies have shown that people put more food on a larger plate than on a smaller plate, just as they eat more food when taking it from a larger container than a smaller one. I've noticed that when I buy the really small, 99 cent bottles of dishwashing liquid, it lasts pretty much as long as the bottle three times the size. I think it is the same effect.

    Just downsizing plates, cups, and containers is likely to be of some help. (Anyone else remember how big a small soda was at McDonalds in the '60s? I'm guessing five ounces of soda and some ice. Maybe four ounces. And we weren't desperately thirsty.

    (And while we're at it, let's shrink the bagels back to the size they started at. They've gotten ridiculously large. A Dunkin Donuts plain bagel (no cream cheese) clocks in at 320 calories. A Dunkin Donuts Bavarian Creme donut clocks in at 210, and a sugar raised is at 170. Maybe the mayor wasn't so wrong after all, especially since most folks don't skip the cream cheese at the bagel place.)
     
  25. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,207
    Brown rice might be (I don't eat rice really that often), but at Meijer, Kroger, Wal*Mart, the bottom price Meijer/Wal*Mart/Kroger brands all seem to generally have a whole wheat variety now. It's no more expensive to buy whole wheat pasta than white pasta.

    Portions will help with pasta, yes, but white pasta by its very nature will spike a person's blood sugar. Because it is all refined carbohydrates with no fiber to help you digest it slowly, your bloodsugar will spike as though you are eating a candy bar. This is what it means to have a high glycemic index - it spikes bloodsugar due to having a high amount of carbohydrate and being digested very quickly (due to no fiber).

    And yes, I've read a ton about nutrition and foods, as Gil-Galad guessed, and am also a type-1 diabetic who needs to know these things. I feel that the health classes in public schools should really explain these sorts of things though. I don't recall that my health classes ever explained any of this to us. I really want to go back at some point to get my certification in health so I might be able to teach that as well as music some day.
     
  26. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    700
    I have a friend trying to lose weight who asked me to help her. She loves rice, so I asked her to show me what a serving of rice looked like-Her idea of a serving turned was not 1/2 a cup, it was 2 1/2 cups. I personally look at rice as a 1/3 cup serving. Rice and beans are a great choice, but many people delude themselves into thinking a full plate is a serving.

    I don't buy into the whole glycemic thing myself, as I found that counting calories, measuring, and getting in five miles every day worked for me very well. People used to be much thinner because they burned so many calories despite eating lots of carbs and animal fats.

    I used to do a lot of kayaking, and would go to Taco Bell after. No matter how you tried to explain that you did not want the giant tub of soda, they would insist that it came with the combo, and why would you want a small when you could get the large for the same price? I would explain that I would pay the full price of the combo, but give me the small pepsi. They usually tried to give me the damn tub anyway.

    Ran into an old college roomate a few years back-She is about 5'4 and weighed about 150-160. She had gotten down to 120 by simply not drinking a 2 liter of mountain dew a day any longer, according to her.
     
  27. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,436
    I like the pasta made from quinoa, myself. I find it quite tasty.
     
  28. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,633
    Seriously. Go pick up a copy of Farmer Boy and read a description of a typical dinner. If people ate that much food today, they'd definitely be obese, but when you're plowing fields, planting crops, raising and training livestock, cleaning stalls, etc. (not to mention walking several miles to school and back) you're getting as much exercise as an athlete in training.
     
  29. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    700
    Heh. I was half thinking of the Little House series when I posted that.
     
  30. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,207
    I've been curious about this! I only recently saw that it existed. If you try it, let me know :)

    Carbs in the past were not remotely as refined as the white pasta of today. They had a lower glycemic index :shuffle: Definitely what you're saying is true, but the refined carbs are a big part of the problem when it comes to the type-2 diabetes epidemic. It is a definite fact that strain upon the pancreas and upon our bodies is what prevents people from producing and absorbing the insulin they need to regulate their bloodsugars, and it is a fact that refined carbs spike a person's blood sugar. I'm not sure what there is to buy in to.