Steps Cheat Sheet

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by MR-FAN, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Hey everyone! I was hoping to have a quick cheat sheet of what some steps actually are in my quest of slowly learning steps on the ice. I just want to focus on 1-foot turns, and I have 2 quick questions to ask. The first one I can understand is subjective, but generally speaking, what is the difficulty ranking of the 4 major steps? I believe 3-turns are the easiest 1-foot turns, but how would someone generally rank brackets, counters, and rockers?

    My 2nd question is a bit more involving: what are the definition of these stpes? All I'm looking for is an example of how to perform these steps. ie, for a 3-turn, and example is to be on a right inside edge, turn counter-clockwise (following the rotation of the edge) and be on the right back outside edge. What is an example of a bracket, counter, and rocker?

    Also, are there other types of 1-ffot turns that I missed?

    THANK YOU great and knowledgable FSU peeps :cheer2:
     
  2. C_T_T_

    C_T_T_ Well-Known Member

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    First Question: I'm not sure, I think counters would generally be considered the hardest but like you said, it really depends on the person.

    Second Question: Using your example...A Bracket from a right forward inside edge, turn clockwise and exit on a right back outside edge. A Rocker from a right forward inside edge, turn anti clockwise and exit on a right back inside edge. A Counter from a right forward inside edge, turn clockwise, exit on a right back inside edge. This article has a diagram http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080307&content_id=45318&vkey=ice_news

    Another one foot turn is a loop, although it doesn't turn as such. The edge gets pulled round in a small tear drop shape and exits the same way you went in.
     
  3. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Thank you thank you thank you!!! EXACTLY what I was looking for :cheer2:
     
  4. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Difficulty depends on the skater and also whether they find inside or outside turns more difficult or back turns more difficult.

    I generally find counters easier than rockers. And then brackets harder than both of those. Then those I do on my left foot easier than my right. And then the backward versions of all them more difficult than the forward versions.
     
  5. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

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    And the USFSA considers the difficulty (lowest to highest) as 3-turn, bracket :eek:, counter, rocker.

    You can follow a formula for turns:

    3turn: (edge) natural rotation (opposite edge)
    bracket: (edge) counter rotation (opposite edge)
    counter: (edge) counter rotation (same edge)
    rocker: (edge) natural rotation (same edge)
     
  6. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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  7. ltnskater

    ltnskater Active Member

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    In Canada, I suppose it could be seen as difficulty, but the steps focused on from lowest to highest skills are:

    3turn
    bracket & loops
    rocker
    counter

    I personally find some rockers harder than counters in general, some loops are also quite tricky cause you want to do them without using the toepick.
     
  8. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Thank you all soooo much :encore::encore:

    I'l be referring to this info for a loooong time to come! a couple of days ago while working on all my 3-turns, I started experimenting a bit, and did what I now realize is a counter with ease, but I didn't know what that step was called. The one I did was a left forward inside to left back inside turning counter clockwise. But before I move on, I want to master all my 3-turns first (The 3-turn that gave me the most trouble was the left back outside to left forward inside, but I'm finally getting the hang of it!)

    You guys rock :hat1:
     
  9. wouldacoulda

    wouldacoulda Active Member

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    Everyone I know who has broken a wrist has done it falling on a bracket, so I'll say that brackets would be the most difficult...
     
  10. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    You can try all the one-foot turns on two feet to get the feel of how they rotate and what they upper body needs to do. Much safer than trying them on one foot right away. However, the placement of your weight over the blades will be much different than when you try them on one foot.
     
  11. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Once you have the 3 turns, the respective brackets come easily. Just remember to face the opposite direction than 3 turns.
     
  12. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Thanks! I completely forgot about the 2-feet exercise, even though I did it when I was first learning 3-turns! (And I agree, the 3-turn feels completely different on 1 foot, bu the upper body movement was more secure :)

    Thanks! I don't know why, but it seams to me that getting the respective counters would be easier, but again I've only attempted one type of counter, and never a rocker or a bracket, so what do I know :p needless to say, it would be a while before I commit to learning a new step. now I'm just enjoying the progress of my 3-turns :cool:
     
  13. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

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    I sprained my ankle on a rocker :eek: stupid Novice moves ...
     
  14. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Today I taught my coach how to do a closed outside mohawk. Of course she did it better than I can.

    But I took some ice dance lessons a decade ago, and she always did singles.
     
  15. backspin

    backspin Active Member

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    ymmv, but for most people this isn't the case. Brackets are not very intuitive & are usually cheated at first & take a lot of practice to get them to be true brackets, and also to not feel like you're going to die while doing them--especially the fwd outsides & back outsides.
     
  16. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    I first had them in group lessons and it seems everyone managed to do resonably well in the first 30 minutes (both feet, both edges, forward and backward). Even though the instructor did not pick much on us, I certainly cannot tell if we cheated or not.Would you mind elaborating what is the most common ways for beginners to cheat brackets? Which part of the tracing would look wrong compared to a true bracket? Thank you very much!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  17. Clarice

    Clarice Active Member

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    It's pretty common to change edge before the actual turn, so that the "bracket" is really a three-turn in disguise.
     
  18. backspin

    backspin Active Member

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    Agree w/ Clarice; most people when learning change the edge at the last moment. You won't feel it; you have to go back & examine the tracing to see if it's right. You'll see a sway in the edge just before the turn.

    Considering that brackets are an Intermediate moves element, and considering that most skaters who are at that level work for months to get them right, it's doubtful that an entire group class got them correct in 30 minutes.....
     
  19. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the most common error is doing the bracket on a flat. Typically this is when skaters are just learning them, and doing them from hardly any glide at all. Next common would be changing the edge so it's more like a 3-turn, which stems from a concerted effort to get off the flats. Then you'll have skaters who get one part but not the other correct - the entrance is checked fine but the exit is the wrong edge, they can't hold either the entrance edge, etc.
     
  20. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Thank you everyone for the comments on brackets! I noticed that my tracing is not as symmetric as I would like it to be, with the exit edge sometimes being wonky on particular turns. But will certainly check for edge change the next time I skate on clean ice!

    My cheat sheet should indicate the free leg position for different turns. It's usually difficult for me to figure out when does free leg go in front and when tucked behind, lol.
     
  21. dbny

    dbny New Member

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    Forward, back, or both? I love the look of the back outside closed mohawks, but can't do them any faster than at a snail's pace.
     
  22. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Does it matter? Last Wednesday I was practicing my right forward inside 3-turns both ways, one with my free leg in front and another with my free leg behind. I thought it could be done both ways. But let me guess, the correct free leg position would be in front (since it's the harder one for me :lol: )
     
  23. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Forward, like in the Foxtrot etc.

    What does a back outside closed mohawk look like?
     
  24. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    There is probably no right or wrong, but some turns are easier with free leg in front while some are not. I should take notes while practicing haha.
     
  25. dbny

    dbny New Member

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    I don't actually believe you can do a FI three with the free leg in front. You can exit it with the free leg in front, and need to do that to enter a backspin. For back threes, the easiest way is to have the free leg in front (heel over toe of skating foot.) I just saw a bunch of Preliminary & Pre-Juv MIF tests skated with the free leg next to the skating foot and sometimes even behind. All of the turns were clunky, and some students failed, with the turns contributing, I'm sure. Their coach is a former Olympic ice dance competitor

    The free foot takes the ice behind the skating foot, almost like ballet 5th position. As the backward skating foot leaves the ice, it must come forward, so it is in front after the turn. I'm seeing this a lot in elite freestyle programs lately, although most of them are really flat, and as such not true mohawks or choctaws, for that matter.
     
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  26. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Yes, that's what I was doing. Practicing exiting with the free foot in front and in the back
     
  27. backspin

    backspin Active Member

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    Yep, you sure can. My coach has me do running 3's as part of an exercise, w/ the free foot not only in front, but crossed. Not easy & I don't enjoy it, but definitely do-able (and I'm no elite skater!). :D

    However, I wouldn't recommend it when you're learning 3's, that's for sure. Mostly FI 3's are done w/ the free foot behind, which is how you'll see them done for the most part in moves tests.
     
  28. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Easiest to most difficult:

    3-turns
    Bracket
    Counter
    Rocker

    Just my opinion! Brackets are definitely a challenge at first! But you have to get them in order to learn counters. Rockers are the hardest for me because they require a very held check of the arms, more so than counters.
     
  29. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I'm scared of the forward outside counters. The forward inside ones I can do but they're shaky. Can't do backward ones at all, but I'm not good at backward turns in general.

    I much prefer rockers to counters.

    But i's probably like a salchow vs. toe loop preference. Not a big difference in absolute difficulty, but different strokes for different folks.
     
  30. dbny

    dbny New Member

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    Actually, since F brackets are done with the free foot in front, it shouldn't be all that much more difficult to do threes that way, now that I think about it. Are you really on edges with the running threes, or are they flats, like the so called three-bracket-three pattern they just removed from Novice MIF?