State of Chinas pairs going forward- will they ever remain as contenders

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The Chinese have had a pair on every World podium since 1999 now. That streak seems in serious jeopardy this year though, as the Chinese are not favored to win any medal. A bronze is possible but Kavaguti & Smirnov are favored to win the bronze.

    Looking ahead might this be the start of a long drought for China not medalling in pairs. Pang & Tong are near the end of their careers and dont seem that motivated anymore. Sui & Han might end going bust completely once she grows fully. Zhang & Zhang dont seem to be contenders anymore, nor likely to become one again in the future. Nobody else they have coming up is noteworthy right now.
  2. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Nope, China's got at least another decade of being contenders
  3. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    With whom though. Will Sui & Han survive a big growth spurt by her. I really hope they do as I like them, but I have my doubts. It would be some to see some more up and coming Chinese pairs, they have relied on the former big 3 of Shen & Zhou, Pang & Tong, Zhang & Zhang too long without developing enough new teams, and now 2 of those 3 are arguably still out there when they dont even want to be anymore in an attempt to keep China up there (which is becoming increasingly hard for both, which have already peaked in their skating and likely career achievements).
  4. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Yu/Jin and very promising, as are Li/Jiang. China has nothing to worry about in pairs for now.
  5. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    I wouldn't worry about it. Growth spurts aren't as big of a deal for pairs as it is for ladies. I mean worse comes to worst, no more quads, but refined triples instead.
  6. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto New Member

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    I think it depends, if it's a growth spurt like Dan Zhang's, it'll be very hard. But you know, with China, we probably won't see Sui having a growth spurt at least at the ISU age of 20 just like Dan Zhang.. :slinkaway
  7. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    The judges seem to love Sui-Han. They won't wait too long to put them on the podium.
  8. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    China has only had three good pairs teams and now one is gone. Actually I predict the Zhangs are gone as well....sadly. Pang and Tong can run hot or cold but if they can skate as well as they did in the 2010 season they can certainly skate just as well as S/S or V/T when S/S or V/T make mistakes, those teams are not infallible. I just don’t think they are really to compete at that high level yet, but they almost took that gold from S/Z so I wouldn’t count them out from doing it to someone in 2014.

    Or P/T can skate as bad as we saw in January which won't get them any higher than 4th-6th at Worlds. They have been out of competition all year and maybe lost their edge so that might affect them. I don’t think K/S are a lock for the bronze they haven’t competed since the beginning of December, he took time off to heal his knee, had stomach surgery; who knows what they will look like. I would just be glad they are going and look ahead to next season. I think both teams should easily beat S/H for with 3rd or 4th place, 5th at the very worst.

    Han is a very short pairs man, probably one of the shortest I've ever seen and she will outgrow him soon with her only being 4'7". She can only grow no more than 3" before she will have to find a new partner. She is only 16 (I'm not getting into her age discrepancy :shuffle:) she will not stay 4'7" so China will have problems very soon with that pair.

    China has wonderful young pairs teams that I hope they pay attention to, they really can make a splash and do well if they are nurtured.
  9. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    It's not dire at all they have S/H and Y/J to take over the aging P/T and Z/Z
    S/H has a bright future, the only thing that could hamper that would be if she really has a fake age and will still get a growth spurt and they will lose all their quads. S/H can't make up for anything else, horrendous lines and skating skills but Y/J has potential they have overall great lines and lifts are good.
  10. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto New Member

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    I think they have at least 3 years before she hits growth spurt :shuffle:, which will be after Sochi.

    And I agree with the other post, that I much prefer Y/J
  11. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    ^

    If the fake age is true
    how old is Sui currently, 14 or 15 ?
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    14. I want to say her fake age was September 1997.
  13. letsskate

    letsskate New Member

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    Sui's actually younger than 14. But Han Yan's the opposite case of Sui. I really can't reveal my source, so people can believe it or not.
  14. waltzNo1

    waltzNo1 New Member

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    Gosh, how can I believe you if you don't even know the correct name of the boy in S/H pair? The boy's name is Cong Han!
  15. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    She looks about 11 or 12 to me.

    It will be interesting to see how she grows and if she gets too tall for him. He isn't very tall.
  16. letsskate

    letsskate New Member

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    you've never heard of Han Yan before??? :rolleyes: I'm not talking about Cong Han! although you're right, cong han is also the opposite case of Sui.

    p.s. my bad, just noticed this is chinese pairs only thread. i thought it's chinese skating in general..
  17. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    It also occurs to me that Yan Han could be older than 15, and Sui younger. But I have never seen any of the two up close so I must put a wild speculation disclaimer here.
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is would they even be a real contender by Sochi. I dont see them challenging Volosozhar & Trankov or Savchenko & Szolkowy by that point. At best they might be a bronze contender by then. It would seem for me they would most likely have their greatest success after 2014, so if she will outgrow him at that point, then they probably dont have much future of great success at all.
  19. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto New Member

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    Judging by 4CC scoring, they're getting +GOE for crashed/underrotated quad twist, double footed throw, and wonky lifts, and accumulated 135 points total.. at this rate, if one of the top two pairs falter, they can really get a surprise placement.. not that it should be that way. :shuffle::slinkaway
  20. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I think everyone can agree they were over scored at 4CC :lol: hopefully the judges will recognize that when they are at worlds when S/H are up against skaters that really have skating skills.

    Also, the top 5 pairs in world were not at 4CC, 3 are Russian 1 is German and the 1 from China didn't go. Worlds will be a test for how how bad S/H will be held up for their poor skills against the rest of the top pairs.
  21. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    I saw Sui/Han live at 4CC. She looked young but I could believe she is 15 or 16. She just didn't look like she has blossomed yet.

    And they may still look raw and be critical all you like but they have "it" on the ice. The audience at 4CC was very appreciative and I loved seeing them live.
  22. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    I don't think China pairs will podium in Sochi at all unless S/H and Y/J improved their skating skills dramatically by then. Perhaps beyond Sochi? Times up for Z/Z and P/T. I think Y/J are more lyrical than S/H though I am impressed by S/H youthful exuberance on ice.
  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think she's already grown some and the bios have not been updated in a while. In pictures on the podium she looked roughly the same size Davankova who is listed as 150 cm or 4'11", so I think Sui is taller than 143 cm. You can tell the bios haven't been updated recently for the Chinese team because Yu is clearly way taller than the 150 cm she is listed as, her legs are very long and she towered over both the other girls on the podium and is not even all that much shorter than Jin, she's probably 160 cm by now at least.
  24. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    sui is probably around 4'9" now.

    2009 Dec, junior grand prix final Podium Photo

    http://sports.cnhubei.com/xtzh/200912/W020091205347815052554.jpg
    Yue Zhang 5'1" according to ISU Bio (more likely 5'3")
    Lei Wang 6'0"
    Wenjing Sui 4'7"
    Con Han 5'7"

    2011March junior world championships

    http://www.hinews.cn/pic/0/11/51/74/11517416_379513.jpg

    narumi takahashi 4'9"
    Mervin Tran 5'9"

    Cong Han 5'7"
    Wenjing Sui seems 4'9"

    Ksenia Stolbova 5'2"
    Fedor Klimov 5'11.4"



    2012 Feb, 4cc

    http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/p/sp/getty/b2/fullj.1ad75b2ec42c3ace97416ad21ce14238/1ad75b2ec42c3ace97416ad21ce14238-getty-138850311.jpg

    Left
    Caydee Denney 5'0" according to bio (looks like 5'3")
    John Coughlin 6'2"

    Middle
    Cong Han 5'7"
    Wenjing Sui seems 4'9"

    Right
    Mary Beth Marley 4'9.5"
    Rockne Brubaker 5'9"



    Sui grew ~2 inches between 2009Dec to 2011Mar, but almost stayed the same height from 2011 Mar to 2012 Feb. I grew only 1 inch after 12 years old. So it could be possible for her to stay that height.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  25. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I grew 3" after high school so everyone is different. There is no magic number where ever one just stops.
  26. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    Sorry, I wanted to compare three pictures from 2009 Dec to 2012 Feb, but somehow I hit the submit button before I finish it.
  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Might Yu outgrow Jin? She already looks tall and her legs suggest she might grow taller. She looks way more than 4'11" and he looks shorter than 6'.
  28. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    That is possible too. That is what the worry would be. If atleast one, preferably both, of Yu & Jin and Sui & Han dont survive the growth spurt post 2014, as most of us seem to concede no Chinese pair will make a huge impact until after Sochi, then the situation for Chinese pairs moving forward looks bleak.
  29. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    Jin is almost 6' (5'11.5" according to his bio). Yu can grow to 5'4.5" for an acceptable height difference 7" as Shen/Zhao's
  30. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    Actually, Bo Luan, S/H and Y/J's coach, is coaching about 6 or more junior pairs. Some of them got quad twist and quad throw. If Yu out grows Jin and Sui out grows Han, then how about Sui and Jin? Find another partner for Han.
  31. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    Cong Han's former partner was on the substitute list of 2012 JWC. That girl outgrew him.
  32. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, hopefully she won't exceed that, but it could be possible if she is actually around 5'3" now, which she appears to be judging from those pictures at junior worlds.
  33. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Who's that?
  34. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    The girl is Cheng Peng
    Her current partner is Tianci Zhang
  35. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Never heard of these two before. They are pretty good!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqrpHUs4qkc

    Very nice sbs 3T. Where did they place?
  36. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  37. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    They are good! Might they get a JGP next year?

    P.S. She looks like she is wearing Mao's dress from 09-10
  38. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Thanks for looking this up. So they placed sixth after all the better known teams who have been competing internationally, except Li/Jiang (9th), who did JGP's and JW. They are doing really well after one season together (and one season of pairs altogether for Zhang, I think). Personally I wish they had been sent to JW instead of Li/Jiang. But I think it's politics at play again. Li/Jiang are not coached by Luan, who coaches both Sui/Han and Yu/Jin, as well as Peng/Zhang. The Chinese federation was probably spreading the wealth a little among the coaches. Maybe Yu/Jin and Sui/Han will both go senior next year, and then Peng/Zhang as well as Wang/Zhang will get a chance to do JGP's (I'm sure Li/Jiang will go again -- though I wish they would switch coaches or something, because they have awful skating skills and are packaged terribly).
  39. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    I think realistically S/H should be between 5-10th place. They are still very young and I am sure the judges will make them wait their turn (which they should). I don't see them challenging for medal until after Sochi. Hopefully by them both the german pair and top two Russian pairs would be retire by them then all the young pairs will be mature and developed as all rounded skaters, not just jumping and throwing .
  40. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If everyone skates reasonably well at Worlds I would be dissapointed if Sui & Han were placed any higher than 6th. All 3 Russian teams, Savchenko & Szolkowy, and Pang & Tong ought to be above them in that case, based on what their current level is. If they are any higher than that, unless 1 of those teams messed up (not too unlikely, Barazova & Larinov imparticular well could, and they are the team that would have the least margin of error to begin with), then I will start to worry about the judging and what politiks might be at play to their rise. Savchenko & Szolkowy and Volosozhar & Trankov should have atleast a 3 fall cushion over them at this point, they are much better both on the TES and PCS right now.