Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Auntie, Dec 11, 2010.
The harm and distruction Madoff visited on so many lives continues even within his own family. Not the way to solve his problems and sorry he choose this path and inflicted more pain on those that loved him. R.I.P.
Oh God, not the "suicide is selfish" argument again? I am not defending what he did (or might have done) in his life, but it's so easy to judge others when you're not in a position of desperation yourself.
Where did Buzz say Madoff's act was selfish?
I'm heartbroken for the son and the son's family, but fcuk Bernie Madoff.
He/she didn't use the word, but the comment I've quoted above seems very judgemental to me. YMMV.
I think Buzz was just remarking that killing oneself inflicts a ton of pain and grief onto those that love you, mainly friends and of course family. Buzz didn't say anything about whether or not he may have had valid reasons for killing himself. Can you honestly say that you think it is ok to require your loved ones to have to deal with your death for the rest of their lives? I don't think it is but it doesn't mean I judge those who do decide to kill themselves because as you said, I am not in their shoes.
Not always true; some people who kill themselves are effectively alone, without friends and with family having deserted them.
I think your last two sentences (above) rather contradict themselves, but in any case, I am now exiting this thread.
What a tragedy. The pain that would drive someone to suicide must be beyond unbearable. And the pain that loved ones feel, when someone commits suicide is equally intense. They feel deserted, responsible, devastated. It is a shame that he did not get help. I feel bad for his wife, children, even his (questionable) mother. But, I feel nothing for his father. Bernie Madoff put his child in the position to commit crimes and be the target of scorn. Bernie Madoff destroyed his family, as well as those he swindled. He is a monster.
I read a quote once that resonated so much with me: "It's easy to tell me not to kill myself. The hard part is giving a shit if I choose to stay around".
The whole situation is tragic, but I found it disturbing that he did this with his 2-year old son at home. Presumably the toddler woke up to find his father hanging.
I can't imagine
As adults, the sons must assume some responsibility if they were involved in the crime. Suicide is always tragic for the family, but Mark may have brought some of his own tragedy on to himself. I know that the jury's still out on his involvement, but it's hard to believe the sons were completely innocent.
People should keep in mind that most suicides are committed in a mental state that cannot be considered normal and cannot be judged as such.
This is beyond horrible.
Apparently, he thought of that. He called his wife in Florida and asked that someone check on the two year old. Granted, the child could have unexpectedly woke up, but he did not want the child to find him. And I agree that no one is in their right mind when they commit suicide.
Yes, I am sure that he was not completely innocent. But his father brought him into it. Therefore, I have no feeling for Bernie Madoff.
From what I understand, he sent only a text message very late at night that wasn't received until the following day. Obviously he was in a very bad way-- no one is disputing that. I was simply commenting on the additional tragedy of a boy potentially finding his father's body like that since it seems the toddler was awake before anyone came to check on him.
Absolutely, if the child had found him - unimaginable. Thank goodness it didn't happen.
Where does it say that didn't happen?
Unless the child got up, saw his father and went back to bed, it didn't happen. He was sleeping.
Thank heaven's for that. Poor little guy
The article says the father killed himself while the child was sleeping--not that the child was sleeping when found by relatives the next morning.
Yeah, that was the wrong article. I found one a few days ago that said the child was found sleeping, but I can't find it now. Obviously, I can't link you to it. But, if the child were up, I would think we would hear more about the child seeing the father hanging. The media would be exploiting that like bees on honey.
I heard it reported on TV that when his father-in-law got there (in response to the email to his daughter), he found the body -- and that the child was asleep. Of course, it could be wrongly reported but that was what was on the news. It is a tragedy, no matter what. Bernard Madoff's greed has caused such damage to so many peoople.
Maybe I heard it on the news, too, and that's why I can't find the article.
To himself as well, clearly.
At least one of Madoff's victims also committed suicide some time ago.
Why was the baby alone with him? Are they divorced?
Wife was out of town, I believe.
No, they are not divorced. From the article linked in the OP:
Not sure what Buzz meant, but my first reading was that Bernard inflicted more pain on those that loved him, including Mark.