Some random news tidbits about Chinese pairs, Asada and Kim

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Marco, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    All Chinese team members do that ala the Russian system, but that doesn't explain the whole story.
    Just look at the media events S/Z go to (http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2010-06-17/16425045419.shtml). I'm sure they got $$$ out of them, while the other pairs... (shrugs)

    Looks like S/Z appeals to the public because they have a romantic Cinderella story that goes with their success. P/T probably has a similar story too but the guy didn't propose on the ice or come back after an archilles tendon injury or anything like that.

    I guess S/Z is successful and sexy and that's why they got their BMWs. (see my thread in GSD)
     
  2. icedance21

    icedance21 New Member

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    Wow, Pang and Tong will both be 34 by the 2014 Sochi Olympics. :eek: I'm still not convinced that Shen/Zhao will not make another comeback for Sochi. :p
     
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  3. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    All they need is an Olympic silver to finish their collection!

    :p
     
  4. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well the tone of the article I read is more like they "aim" for Sochi.
     
  5. letsskate

    letsskate New Member

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    ehh, don't take it that i prefer s/z over p/t.. that's not the case at all. I used to be really gutted for p/t the past couple seasons.. but i mean, when you compare to s/z, s/z have one gold, two bronze olympic medals, p/t only a silver, and if you compare the world championship medals, gpf results.. just not comparable..

    p/t will get the attention when they have those results, their time will come :)

    Also, I think s/z are getting so much media stuff is because they're now retired :)
     
  6. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I'm analysing the issue from the angle of their marketability, timing and other issues. Our personal preference has nothing to do with it. The generic reasons of federation cuts, medal counts, etc, play in but no more so than in other cases in China. They don't explain how one Olympic gold medalist got all the glory while others needed public assitance (there was a story a while back on this).

    I don't think whether S/Z are retired has that much to do with $$$. THey've had media attention before. Guo JIng Jing was among the top earning athletes in Asia before YuNa topped her and Guo wasn't retired then. Did you actually find some assertions of the kind in Chinese news?

    Do you really think P/T's time will come ala Shen/Zhao? I personally think their time re: media will never come even if they get Olympic gold in 2014. They are just not as marketable. Everything they've done S/Z has done already and in a perfect "fairy-tale" manner. If you read the news story link re: S/Z, it's clear their marketability has much to do with their story.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  7. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    From what I know, a house in a large Chinese city is quite rare - extremely expensive, actually - and most people live in apartments. It's possible P/T mean just housing in general, including apartments, but otherwise, a house is hard to come by for anyone.

    I love P/T, but as of now, I don't see them as legitimate Olympic gold material. As amazing as their performances in Vancouver were, they certainly didn't match S/Z at their best, such as S/Z at 2003 Worlds, 2004 GP and Worlds, and the 2005 GP. They may have been in the shadows of S/Z for awhile, but I don't think their level at that time was ever even close. Their skating skills, for example, are lacking compared to S/Z and the other teams.
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt be surprise if Pang & Tong go to Sochi. I am sure the Olympic Gold is a dream for them, Aliona & Robin, as well as the Russians, and that is why I think all those teams will be there. Plus I doubt the Chinese federation will let them retire easily as they wont want the Zhangs to ever be their #1 team again. They want to still be in the running for gold medals and be virtually certain to get a medal of some kind at major events after all.
     
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Lets face it, there isnt anyway S&Z will ever skate as amateurs again. To win gold in 2014 wont require beating S&Z. It will require beating many of the teams that are there now, and possibly some emerging top teams over the next several years. The only current team potentially clearly superior to P&T are S&S and at the moment their consistency issues give P&T a chance to beat them. K&M are potentially a threat and are even more inconsistent than S&S. Of course alot can happen in 4 years.

    Will be interesting to see if Dube & Davison can ever really become a top team again or if they ever go for 2014. How the American pairs progress especialy Denney & Barrett. How the up and coming Chinese and maybe Japanese teams develop. And how that Volosozhar & Trankov combo pair out, can they even become a dominant or Championship team.
     
  10. millyskate

    millyskate Well-Known Member

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    I'm very happy Pang and Tong are staying. The world scene needs them, and I doubt they are being "forced" to stay. They came into their own last season, and it only makes sense they won't to carry on!

    It is, however, sad that a couple that has contributed so much to world and chinese skating over the past decade still cannot afford a house. Someone get them some sponsors.... they really deserve it.
     
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I'd happily buy them a house if it made them retire. :p
     
  12. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I suspect life after sports is going to be a big problem in China, esp. with all those medalists off the Beijing Games. What to do with them? Can they all become coaches?

    Or perhaps let other countries hire them away as coaches. (That's what happened to some gym/diving ones.)
     
  13. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Good for Pang/Tong. I hope that they can eventually become Olympic Pairs champs.
     
  14. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    You're definitely right, there is no doubt that S&Z have finished their careers this year. I was just saying that I couldn't visualize P&T as Olympic Champions given their performance level, because their skating does have some clear flaws, especially in skating skills. Of course, if there are no stronger teams rising in the next 4 years, they are in great contention to win the gold medal. But IMO, I can't imagine them as gold medalists right now, although four years might bring dramatic changes to their skating.
     
  15. shah

    shah Shhh...

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    :lol:
    I'm ok with their decision, as long as they create 2 new innovative and attention-capturing programmes (well, I like both of their programmes from the last season :shuffle: ;)).
     
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    P&T are very strong competitors, I think that is what wins them alot of medals. They arent the best pair out there, even with Shen & Zhou not around. Savchenko & Szolkowy are a much better pair team than Pang & Tong and capable of being competitive with Shen & Zhou, but they arent as strong of competitors as any of the Chinese pairs. Even the Zhangs are stronger competitors than the Germans, but their skating quality is so inferior that even when they were getting the backing as China's #1 and the Germans were having really rough performances (eg- 2008 Worlds) in this case the Germans still managed to come out on top. That is another reason btw I am pretty sure the Zhangs will never be the Chinese #1 again. The Chinese federation put all their eggs in their basket for years, always favored them over Pang & Tong, and even favored them over Shen & Zhou when they first returned from injury in 06. Yet out of those years of support as the #1 team and all the political pushing, all the years they have had to improve, they have produced no big titles at all, even when they had every oppotunity available to them other than their limitations in artistry and overall ability. The Chinese federation like the rest of us have probably by now concluded they simply arent a World Championship caliber team, now or ever. Back to P&T though the Russians are capable of beating Pang & Tong too if they were more consistent. I think Kavaguti & Smirnov skating cleanly would beat them most times, but of course they rarely come close to clean performances. Even Dube & Davison could be a threat to them if they got less boring programs, more speed and power, and actually started skating cleanly, basically returned to their 2008 Worlds level or a bit better. P&T arent a legendary pair team as far as skills or style, but they go out there and deliver the goods, and they are a strong enough pair unlike the Zhangs to take advantage of potentially better pairs making mistakes. If pairs from Germany, ex Soviet countries, or North America start becoming more consistent, or in other cases improve, they are definitely beatable I agree. They are the kind of pair good at picking up the pieces when they crash around them, nothing wrong with that of course.
     
  17. cheriepopo

    cheriepopo Active Member

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    that's possible, house costs a lot in China and especially if they want to buy a house in Beijing... of course some OGM will be awarded an (or more than one!) apartment by the government/sponsors, but this is in China and I think only the champions may get this kind of award, and P/T are not Oly champion, at least not now :duh:

    anyway, haven't they performed tons of love themed programs in the past?:lol:
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Wishful thinking! :D

    SP was quite pretty actually. Best program they've done so far, I think.

    But the FS was just :wall:.
     
  19. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    Their SP this year was gorgeous, but their FP was pretty weak, as it usually is. P&T generally haven't produced that many strong free programs, although their Paginini program from 03-04 was definitely a highlight that year.

    And I agree, they're a team that rises to the occasion when other teams tend to not deliver.
     
  20. yaoyao

    yaoyao New Member

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    QingPang had owned a house in Beijing since 2004, but JianTong hadn't.
    Not because of Federation's reasons, but they want to continue.Maybe they think their time will come.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  21. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    I agree with those who say that P/T are able to win when others make mistakes, but get :wall: and frustrated because Jian Tong is actually such a great skater, much better than Qing. With the exception of the old V/M, i think this is a case where one partner is much better than the other. Jian tong has very good skating skills, can skate on edges quite well, and has better extension on sbs spins than the other chinese male partners. of course he is maybe not as elegant as the Euro male skaters, (which chinese males are?) but probably could develop into one if he had a different partner. I also love the soft, light quality of his jumps in comparison to the other chinese teams, which he always lands with good height and nice flow.
    still, i'm surprised but glad that P/T are staying, because hopefully it gives Qing pang a chance to improve all the elements of her skating (even at the age of 30), from skating skills to posture to most of all, basic lift positions! That is what i'm wishing for them in the next 4 yrs. For her to be just as good as him. :swoon:
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  22. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  23. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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  24. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Saw somewhere in the news that Bucheon is building a YuNa Kim Garden (or Park?)?
     
  25. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I thought their free program was lovely, although that last year's tango was
    IMO their best FP ever.

    While it's true that they tend to rise to the occasion when others falter, I do think their skating skills are still improving. They have gained consistency on the jumps and their spins are better than they were a few years ago. Pang could certainly benefit from polishing/finishing her moves, but it wouldn't surprise me if she does just that.

    P&T has been the perennial bridesmaids of the Chinese teams. While S&Z were clearly the best of the three, they also skated in the shadow of Zhangs, who were Bin Yao's favourite of the two pairs. Apparently he has a soft spot for Zhangs and according to rumor, once left P&T behind to skate alone when he took them overseas.

    It will be interesting to see if their Olympic silver medal and second world title give them more status on the Chinese team. They've certainly earned the top spot on the team and it is obvious that they are still growing, whereas Zhangs appear to be on the decline.
     
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  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    There is no way Pang & Tong are not now considered the #1 Chinese pair over the Zhangs. Pang & Tong are the reigning World Champions and Olympic silver medalists. The Zhangs skated cleanly at Worlds and placed 5th even without Shen & Zhou there. It is a no brainer who the federation will back atleast until Sui & Han really become a threat at the very top.

    I wouldnt even be surprised if the federation encouraged Pang & Tong to stay in because I doubt they ever want to go back to the Zhangs as their #1 again now. The Chinese even backed the Zhangs politically as their #1 when Shen & Zhou returned from injury for the Games in 2006. They had been the pets of the Chinese federation and Bin Yao for years. Yet even with all that support they couldnt manage even 1 World or Olympic title, even with the benefit of a very weak field at times, and even when the winners crashed and burned somewhat (eg- Savchenko & Szolkowy at the 2008 Wrolds). I think after the 2009 Worlds was probably when they decided it was time to just accept the Zhangs are not a World Championship caliber pair and move on, hence why there were clear signs very early last season they were dumped in favor of Shen & Zhou's return and Pang & Tong. Last season only confirmed in spades that they arent good enough as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  27. Diyoris

    Diyoris New Member

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    Pang/Tong's SP this season is one of my all-time-favourite.


    About the price of a house in China, this is currently one of the biggest issue for Chinese people. Here is a clip from Chinese singer Huang Zheng (黄征) called "Sell" (卖) which has been rapidly popular and nicknamed "the most hopeless clip in history". People are thinking about the number of years they need in order to be able to afford this house.

    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTg0MzcxMzI4.html
    The rich man needs 5 days, his mistress just elbowled him once.

    Source (in French)
    I don't know if there are mistakes in the translation from Chinese to French, and I tried to translate as close as I could from French to English.
     
  28. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    P/T is staying for another season. Hooraayyy!!! But Sochi is 4 years away and who knows what will happen. They might be steamed out by then. Z/Z are still young and they can improve. And the new Jr W champ and another younger team are promising paris and i'm sure both will be age eligible and mature skaters by Sochi.
     
  29. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    But Z/Z are not improving, they are declining. This might change, but there is certainly no guarantee. Their artistry has been an issue for years and they haven't improved it, excepting their SP from last season. Actually I'm not sure whether it was last season or the season before it, but it stands out in memory because it was more artistic than other programs and she-Zhang actually expressed some emotion.

    It'll be interesting to see how the Chinese Jr World champs fare on the international scene.
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Why would the Zhangs improve when they have been on slow decline since 2006. Even though I was never a fan I thought after 2006 they were going to take over as the dominant team. I was also sure we would never see Shen & Zhou again as they would find it impossible to beat the Zhangs in future years if they tried to return. That is how sure I was they were going to become the dominant team, their technical abilities were looking unbeatable, and I figured their presentation which had improved up to 2006 would keep improving. Instead here we are 4 years later and they have no major titles at all, not even a Grand Prix final title, and despite years of clear favortism of the Chinese federation in their favor they have been blown by in the past season by the older Pang & Tong and the much older Shen & Zhou upon their return. They went from being the future of the pairs event (lets be honest, that is how nearly everyone viewed them after the 2006 Olympic and 2006 season, much to the dismay of many) to being a team that finishes 5th at a watered down Worlds missing the Oly Champs and some other teams, despite being the only team in the top 10 to skate 2 clean programs.

    In terms of actual ages they are middle aged, but as far as their bodies, pysch, and development curve they are ancient by now. I am actually more surprised they are continuing than Pang & Tong. It seemed to me the judges were sending a message last year but they didnt get the memo.