Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    Taking into account you are a rare visitor there too, it's a small wonder :p My last post (excluding my award votes, since it's not a usual post) dates back to Eurovision 2013 times and that is more than a month ago :)
     
  2. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    Russia colonized parts of what is now the United States and, for long periods, occupied all or parts of modern-day Germany, Finland, and *ahem* Poland, among other countries. The last people who could truly be said to have "colonized" Russia were the Mongols in the Thirteenth Century.

    And, according to Wikipedia, the "proposed legislation in Uganda has been noted by several news agencies to be inspired by American evangelical Christians."
     
  3. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    So all the gay athletes (or even slightly more effeminate straight men, or more masculine straight women) have to stay locked up in the Olympic Village? Like being in a prison when the party is happening all over town. Yes - the Olympics happen all over the town/city they are being held in, not just in the Olympic Village which is only the area in which athletes have housing and other services like cafeteria/medical/etc. So an athlete is finished competing in the first week and instead of being able to go celebrate and join the party in the town he/she has to stay the village? Is that what you're suggesting? Doesn't seem fair to me.
     
  4. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Also not sure how whether one is "out" is relevant to the discussion of homophobia. Because no one has ever been teased or bullied or attacked because they were "perceived" to be gay.
     
  5. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    No it's not what I'm suggesting at all. I've made my feelings on the laws in Russia crystal clear - I abhor them, they are disgusting and i disagree with them completely.

    People are hyperventillating about the safety of the gay athletes, and whringing their hands and claiming the athletes won't be safe, and I just don't think it's going to be an issue.

    You write "all the gay athletes" and again, since no-one appears to be able to answer my question, I ask - exactly how many gay athletes are going to the games? Given that sports is the last place left where people don't come out, manage to hide their sexuality very well, keep it from the media, refuse to come out so they don't harm their earning potential, exactly who is at risk? The speed skater who was in the first linked article, and who else? I personally find it unlikely that Johnny Weir will make the Olympic team for Sochi so i doubt he'll be there, but even if he is, that's 2 athletes out of how many? Do people really think that such a small number of potential targets and any of their friends and family cannot be kept safe by the organisers? Don't get me wrong - no-one should have to be kept safe because of their sexuality, but the law is in place, it's not going anywhere, the Olympics aren't being called off, and I simply don't believe that any gay athlete is going to be attacked, inside or outside the Olympic village.

    I think it's relevant to the point people are making about gay athletes being harmed. If they're not out then why would they be attacked for being gay? Closeted athletes are extremely good at not making their sexuality known, why would this be any different?

    School yard bullying is one thing, but i've not read many accounts of straight people being attacked because the attacker thought they were gay and it turned out they were wrong....maybe there are stats out there that show otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  6. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    I agree with antmanb. I just don't see this being a factor during the Olympics.

    Does that make it comfortable for gay people to attend? No, of course not; just knowing this is the climate in the country is going to be very uncomfortable. A lot of things that should not be, are uncomfortable for gay people. We're still fighting on this. Whether or not the Sochi Olys should be turned into a major front for the fight is a judgement call. I don't think it is necessitated by the situation.
     
  7. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    I've been to two Olympics, one Winter and one Summer. They were both in the USA where I live. So I have seen what it's like to be in those places when the Olympics are not there and then when they are.

    What I have seen is that the atmosphere surrounding the Olympics is not the same as it is in those same places during your regular day-to-day living. First of all, there is way more security and police presence. Second, the people who live there mostly get into a "welcome to my town, stranger" mentality. Third, there are way more people running around day and night and there is safety in numbers. Fourth, the athletes are worshiped and feted, even the minor obscure ones. I think all of this contributes to an atmosphere where athletes in particular but also most tourists are going to be mostly safe particularly if they are sticking to town and the venues and not wandering around into random areas far from the Olympic action.

    I'm not saying some random tourist who wanders into a strange area off the beaten path who challenges established gender stereotypes might not get into trouble if they run into the wrong people. But they are more likely to be taken advantage of just for being a tourist than for being gay. Just because the odds of that happening are greater. And, if they are an athlete, and wearing their athlete jacket, they are probably invincible and the thugs will take them out for a beer or something as soon as they say "biathlon".
     
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  8. PairSk8Fan

    PairSk8Fan Banned Member

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    Gay athletes won't care at all about Russia's laws in regard to their own athletic performance and experience. If they are chosen to compete in an event, the focus will be SPORT, not SEX.

    I think "gay athletes" will put aside the GAY and COMPETE. Just like everyone else, that will be the focus, not being out and not being some form of political activist.

    This is a NON-issue for any serious athlete.
     
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I disagree. It's not activism to walk in the streets living a normal life. There is limited practice time during the competition, and especially in winter sports, special facilities are needed to practice. Athletes get out of the village, especially after their events are over. Paul Wylie had a friend at the 1992 Olympics, and he attributed his good state of mind to taking long walks with her and not obsessing about skating the whole time. Tara Lipiniski was widely reported as having a great time in the lead up to competition. It was Kwan who focused on skating-skating-skating, and look how that worked for her.
     
  10. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    That may be true, but what about after their event(s)? I mean there's a reason why condoms are distributed at these villages.

    And why do you put gay athletes in quotes like that? Anyway, with these laws that criminalize homosexual behavior, by just being themselves, they will be making a political statement...whether they had intended to or not.
     
  11. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    I am sorry to say this, but are we talking about having sex or just sexual orientation, let's put it like this?

    If I am talking about gay rights, I am not meaning "I want to have sex on Champs Elysees in the middle of the day", I am just talking about human rights.

    (Though I do remember someone told me I can have sex in the middle of the road in the UK unless I, rather we, block the traffic :rofl:)
     
  12. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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  13. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    I can already tell the US squad will be silent on this topic. If today's silence is any indication...

    Not even one tweet from our male "stars" skaters regarding today's events????

    #reallyJeremy?

    #noonehomeAdamRip

    #WhataboutyouEvanLysacek?

    Shameful!
     
  14. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Did any skater tweet about it? I don't have Twitter, so I don't know.
     
  15. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about the Supreme Court rulings on DOMA & Prop 8? :confused:

    If so, I know Johnny & his husband Victor tweeted about it. And skating writers and coaches tweeted about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  16. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Johnny, obviously goes without saying, I was talking about the rest. Not one single tweet from any of our top male skaters.

    #noballsItellyou
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  17. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    That seems a bit harsh. I think that most of the top male skaters are probably pro-gay, have gay friends/coaches/choreographers, etc.

    I'm on Twitter a lot (no shit, huh? ;) ) and I know that many of the skaters...both male and female...don't tweet all that often about anything...especially anything other than skating.

    That doesn't mean that they aren't supportive of gay rights or don't care about what happened. I think that as public figures they try to remain non-political and neutral.

    BTW, I checked Brian Boitano's Twitter feed...he's gay and did not tweet about these matters. His tweets seem to mostly be about his cooking show.

    So, I think most skaters...both active and retired...use their Twitter accounts mainly for professional matters or self-promotion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  18. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    But aren't some skaters notorious for twittering about everything and anything? Some have a reputation of having a compulsion to tweet. If that's true, then it's telling that they'd choose to be silent on it...or they just don't know what's going on outside their little world.

    They're free to tweet or not to tweet, but I don't blame followers for wondering about the silence.
     
  19. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    I only follow a handful of skaters (Max, Gracie, Jason, Charlie, Meryl) and they do NOT tweet often at all. And when they do it's almost exclusively about skating.

    I've checked the feeds of other skaters from time to time, and the current amateur competitors rarely tweet.
     
  20. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    I asure you dardar they are out there tweeting their hearts away...just not about DOMA/prop8 :shuffle:

    They have no obligation to say anything(or be pro-gay for that matter) but the silence surrounding such an important event is a bit disappointing. Especially when you take into account that USFSA has prominent gay skaters.
     
  21. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Like I said they have no obligation to say anything, but I can't believe not one of them is interested enough to say anything about doma/prop8.

    For example Alex Shibutani(bless his heart) addicted to twitter except for today.
     
  22. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Weird phone post sorry see belpw
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Alexander Johnson tweeted,

    What a great day to be an American :)

    https://twitter.com/Alex_M_Johnson/status/350028411391057920

    Jeremy Ten tweeted,
    #Equality here we come. #KeepFighting #AcceptanceNotTolerance #LoveNotHate #ItGetsBetter #SameLove​
    and as a Canadian, he has the right to marry whomever he wants.

    https://twitter.com/j3r3bear/status/350008997073518593

    Maybe I'm following the wrong skaters, but of the ones I follow who don't stick to skating, "everything and anything" rarely touches on politics unless its about treatment of animals and often is pretty mundane (shopping, the Boston Bruins, school, part-time jobs, the beach, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  24. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Gracie retweeted Kelly Clarkson:

     
  25. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    That's extremely harsh and nasty. The USFSA has a very homophobic track record. Do you really expect skaters who are still eligible, with long careers ahead of them, to risk shooting themselves in the foot like that?
     
  26. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    My appreciation for those skaters has gone up immensely. I already think highly of Alexander Johnson, but that seals the deal for me. I'll be rooting for him to make the Olympic team.

    Misskate, do you think the USFSA would take any action against X skater for appreciating the demise of prop8/the ruling on Doma? I know the USFSA has a dodgy record, but this was a historical event that was covered by pretty much all the news outlets. USFSA is not that clueless, and believe it or not things have progressed in the last 2-3 years.

    When Jennifer Kirk said she bearded, she wasn't kidding.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=S16nFE2oAw4#t=541s
     
  27. starbucks

    starbucks Member

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    I saw lots of skaters tweeting about it. In addition to @Alex_M_Johnson and Jeremy Ten @j3r3bear:

    @HarrisonChoate
    Proud to be an American today #doma #scotus #prop8 http://youtu.be/hlVBg7_08n0

    @theRandyGardner
    Our country made an intelligent decision yesterday. Go USA! #NoMoreDOMA

    Jimmy Morgan &#8207;@HashtagJimmy
    Pretty powerful RT @HRC: Amazing quote for #marriageequality from Supreme Court decision! #time4marriage

    Jimmy Morgan &#8207;@HashtagJimmy
    Facebook's on board. | "Facebook Rolls Out Rainbow 'Pride' Emoji After DOMA Decision" http://feeds.mashable.com/~r/Mashable/~3/WYjDKcJp8bw/ &#8230;

    @Drew_Meekins
    So happy and proud by the ruling today of the SCOTUS! Federal recognition of marriage equality rights, & marriage equallity returned to CA!

    Michael Johnson &#8207;@pogostickuser12
    HELL NO! The Supreme Court has decided that my marriage is equal to a straight marriage #whenithappens&#8230; http://instagram.com/p/bBsvjcTZsN/

    @GeorgiaGlastris
    INCREDIBLY proud to be an American today &#55356;&#56826;&#55356;&#56824;&#10084;&#55357;&#56427;&#55357;&#56428;&#55357;&#56429; #loveislove

    Alex Shaughnessy &#8207;@ashaughn18
    The only things that matter are love and happiness #loveislove

    &#8207;@katrinahacker
    :) :) :) !!!!!!!!! &#8220;@SCOTUSblog: DOMA is unconstitutional&#8221;

    carina.ann. &#8207;@CMGxo4
    DOMA and prop. 8 ruled unconstitutional!! Incredibly proud to be an American today. Love is love. &#55357;&#56429;&#55357;&#56427;&#55357;&#56428; #supremecourtRULES

    Tai Babilonia &#8207;@taiskates
    TODAY LOVE WINS! #GREATDAY

    @ChaseBelmontes
    What a fantastic step in the right direction! #SCOTUS

    @LauraLepzinski
    &#8220;@BarackObama: Today's DOMA ruling is a historic step forward for #MarriageEquality. #LoveIsLove&#8221;
     
  28. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Did I miss something?
     
  29. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Certain people's compulsion to make others divulge every single aspect of their thinking and personal lives. :shuffle:
     
  30. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    It's not that...I've been out of the FS loop for a number of years; I guess the closet door is still shut.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
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