Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. analia

    analia Active Member

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    Well, not just gays were assaulted. Where I grew up the fat kids were most subjected to assault, and this was before everyone was fully aware of the idea of homosexuality here. Fat kids were beaten up left and right, for being fat and easy. Then the "sissies". But always fat kids (boys and girls) before all others.
    I'm not being an apologist for the Russian government or anything. I think it's well reactionary what Putin wants to do to the gays, among others. But I'm also a bit sick of the notion that LGBT groups are the only ones discriminated in this society. Things are more complicated than that. It's tough life. Many people are discriminated in more subtle ways than sexual orientation (looks for one, which goes a long way and is absolutely a no opener, and gays are among the worst offenders on that.) So deal with it.
     
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  2. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    WOW, how sensitive...how compassionate! :rolleyes:
     
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  3. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    I don't care if I get a suspension, but you are a BITCH!

    If there's ever a time for Karma to kick in... :shuffle:
     
  4. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    That's a very simplistic and lazy argument. People other groups are are assaulted and not respected, that should mean they shouldn't be given sympathy or have their problems highlighted for the world to see? You've obviously haven't thought deeply about this issue given the way you've expressed yourself.
     
  5. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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  6. JJH

    JJH Well-Known Member

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    I find the timing of this legislation to be completely inexplicable. I would expect the Russian government to want the Sochi olympics to be as well-attended as possible. This legislation certainly discourages any member of the gay community from attending the olympics or visiting Russia. Someone might decide not to attend as a protest or because the individual was concerned about safety or simply because who the hell wants to go where they are so clearly unwanted and unwelcome. Wait four more years and go someplace more hospitable.
     
  7. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    The winter Olympic powerhouses are all far more liberal than all the summer nations! So with so much appeal for winter Olympics being to most liberal nations in the world it is interesting but day to day live in the whole of Russia doesn't revolve around Sochi! I have no idea what happened that caused this law to get so much momentum!
     
  9. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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  10. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    But, but won't a Russian person start crying asleep in their pillow?
     
  11. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    EDIT: The Human Rights Watch letter...

    http://www.hrw.org/node/116598
    Letter to the Director General of the International Olympic Committee on Discrimination of LGBT People in Russia in Relation to 2014 Winter Olympics
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  12. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    On a side note, The Miss Universe Pageant will be in Russia in November. This might be a bellwether moment.
     
  13. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    I doubt this will produce any effect. Homophobic propaganda here at the moment is at it's highest level. Some morons even propose laws which will allow military to arrest gays and publicly punish them in the streets. While I doubt this imbecile idea will ever get any serious attention, it does sound alarming.
     
  14. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Not Miss Universe!!!!!!! :drama:

    It does sound alarming. It makes me think of the crazy teabaggers we have here in the USA.

    Farfaraway, are you out yourself.

    Thanks for the article dardar, but I doubt it'll make any difference. However it's nice to see that the Russian LGBT community will officially participate at prideNY for the first time.

    good for them!

    http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-new-york-gay-pride-float/25017432.html

    http://gayeasternbloc.com/

    I often wonder what goes in the mind of a gay Russian skater. For the time being they probably need to stay deep in the closet as I think being out would hurt their chances of getting into the Olympics. Am I wrong to assume this?
     
  15. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    I believe it's a question of trust. Some of my friends know I am gay, some do not and with the situation changing so drastically I doubt they will know. Moreover, I tend to cut ties with those of my acquaintances whose principles and attitude I doubt.

    The hardest part in this play is pretending to be the man you are in fact not.
     
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  16. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Hang in there, Far Far Away. I hope things get better.
     
  17. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    I hope they will get better. Thinking back of the times 10 years ago, when I could hug or even kiss my boyfriend in the streets of the large city, I really wonder why it all changed. Back then, hugging and kissing wouldn't have raised a lot of eyebrows, though there were always people thinking this a horrendous sin and ready to curse you right there and then. Now I can truly be open and myself only on my FB page and here on FSU, since this is the only EU-US board I read and visit on a regular basis (thanks for the support everyone!)

    Seriously, I am not sure what will happen if two gay athletes decide to hug, kiss or do whatever else, which is regarded now as propaganda, while in Sochi. While the authorities, I think, would prefer not to notice to avoid the scandal, the people's reaction is what is unpredictable. Even 10 years ago you could get kicked and even seriously injured or killed if you happened to show your feelings in the wrong place at the wrong time. I only hope my country has enough sense left still.
     
  18. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Well, you have my support, FarFarAway!
     
  19. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you know that this wont be the first major athletic event Russia has ever hosted! There seems to be a belief that because it is the olympics homophobes will be more likely to hurt or kill a gay athlete then at some lower profile event Russia has hosted recently. The Olympic village is where most of the athletes will stay. But even if they do leave the village how will the homophobes in Sochi know who to attack? And security would be higher than say in Moscow worlds in 2011. I doubt the Russian authorities will want to take the Olympics and turn it into something exclusively about attacking homosexuality. Youre actually in Russia so maybe you disagree! I can only think of John Baldwin as someone who was attacked in Russia while at a sporting event and he was just randomly mugged!
     
  20. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Far far, we should create a Gay thread @ Off the beaten Track. That way all the ghaayys of FSU can check on each other. :smokin: :lol:


    I always found that little incident a bit suspect... I mean where exactly was he when he got mugged? :shuffle: He was probably on the DL doing who knows what. :shuffle:

    However, you have to understand FarFar's concern with this new anti-gay wave in Russia. I can only imagine the heartbreak of trying to ignore such a blatant witchhunt. Danger and fear are definitely a factor.
     
  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    This thread is very obviously political so to me the above statement reads: 'It's ok to discuss gay rights in Russia (re: Olympics) but it's not ok to argue about US politics.'

    Whilst two wrongs definitely don't make a right, I would argue that one of the main reasons for anti-gay laws being passed in countries like Russia and Uganda is that it's a backlash against colonialism. Gay rights are seen as a symbol of modernity that the coloniser is trying to impose on the countries it sees as 'not as civilised.' Nobody wants to be perceived as a savage. Especially when the country which tries to portray itself as the more "enlightened" one and which looks down on others has plenty of sins under their belt. 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.' And in the context of this thread: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. ;)
     
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  22. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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  23. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    FarFarAway, you do realize this part of the forum is open for everyone including those who don't even have a FSU account. Including those who read the non EU/US forum where, if I recall, you never stated being gay. You might want to edit your posts here...
     
  24. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    The Olympics are supposed to be more about promoting values and ideals than any other sporting event. Tolerance, respect and understanding are foremost among these values. This is why it is understandable for such issues to come up before the Olympics - and not before the third leg of the Weight Lifting European Cup. :p

    I think FarFarway explained that. They could attack athletes who are not used to hiding their homosexuality in their own countries.

    Suppose that there were a place where "heterophobes" attacked straight people. The only guarantee of not being attacked is not showing that you're straight or hiding in some isolated camp. Woukd you feel safe there as a hetero person and would you be reassured by the question "how will they know?" :scream:

    I come from a country that is largely homophobic (though the young generation is loads better :) ). The vast majority of gay people do not voluntarily show signs of their sexual orientation in public and are out only to their closest friends. As a result, we cannot help noticing the subtler signs in body language etc. - and there are many, even if the person is actively trying to hide his/her orientation. So there is hardly ever a problem in identifying a gay person - especially a man - while on the contrary, if a straight guy's body language isn't as macho as most of the population's, he is considered effeminate and thought to be gay. If it's the same in Russia, don't hold your breath on their not knowing - or even wrongly assuming.

    I have no idea how big the real threat of being attacked is, but independently, it is a great pity that discrimination according to sexual orientation is still not considered as serious a crime as racism. A country having laws discriminationg against black people (for instance) would never be given the Olympics.
     
  25. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I just don't think any athlete is going to be attacked because of their sexuality. The way this debate is going makes it sounds like there's hundreds of out and proud winter Olympians that wonder around in a fanfare of rainbow flags and marching for gay pride everywhere they go.

    Who exactly are these gay athletes that are extremely open about their sexuality to the point that they may make thmselves a target to homophobes in Russia on the off chance they leave the Olympic village?

    Don't get me wrong I think it's digusting that Russia is turning back the clock on gay rights and actively making things worse in it's own country to gay people. Personally as gay man I would not now want to visit Russia at all as I would fear for my own safety as a tourist there. But really, I do not think the Athletes are going to be in any danger at all.
     
  26. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    So let me get it right- when you go somewhere as a tourist you do tend to march for gay pride everywhere you go and make it a fanfare of rainbow flags, hence you wouldn't feel safe going to Russia as a tourist fearing for your safety, but none of the gay athletes does it, so they should be allright? :huh:
     
  27. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    OMG! I really don't understand, somebody why does hate the Russians so much?
    This law is really disgusting, but I'm sure not a single skater, tourist will not get into trouble for being gay. This law was made ​​for the ultra-religious people, will not apply at the Olympic Games. It was too much money, they want everything to be okay.
     
  28. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    No - when I travel as a tourist I travel with my partner who is male and we book into hotels as a couple with a double bed....that usually tips people off in the place you are staying. As a tourist I would also be interested in finding the gay areas of a place and going to gay bars or clubs, something I wouldn't do if I was travelling to Russia with work for example. I am not aware that athletes travel with and stay with their partners in the Olympic village - I thought only athletes and officials stayed in the olympic village so I can't see it coming up. The athletes are there to do a job, with their minds focussed on the task at hand, after their competitions are done I expect they let their hair down, but doesn't that all happen in the Olympic village?

    Like I said - how many out athletes will take part in the winter Olympics in Sochi? Of that undoubtedly tiny number, I serioulsy doubt any of them will be attacked.
     
  29. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

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    Should I? I don't care about that non EU/US forum since I am no more visiting it and what users of that forum think of me is completely immaterial to me at the given point of time.

    I am not having sex in the public, am not insulting anyone, I just want to be the person and yes, the man, I am. No one can deprive me of that right.
     
  30. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    I haven't noticed :)
     
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