Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. allezfred

    allezfred Hideous Admin Staff Member

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    Whatever you think about the law that is frankly a ridiculous statement to make. I'm guessing you've never been to an Olympics because if you had you would know that they are enveloped in a huge security bubble. The suggestion that there will be an orgy of violence in Sochi is laughable.

    Are you trying to insult Russians or gay people or both?

    As a gay man, I am disgusted by this Russian law, but I'm also disgusted by so many people using it to make xenophobic statements about Russian people. :blah:
     
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  2. Sugar

    Sugar Well-Known Member

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    Should Canada boycott Sochi 2014?
    http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2013/07/30/should-canada-boycott-the-sochi-olympics/index.html
    Voices are rising across the West to say Russia's official attitudes towards the LGBT community are discriminatory, and what would really hurt is a boycott of the Sochi Winter Olympics.


    Hamilton man petitions to boycott Sochi games
    http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/07/29/hamilton-olympics-boycott.html
    O'Garr doesn't want the Olympics cancelled. He'd like to see them moved to a former winter host city.
    “Russia is a host country for the Olympics and everything they're doing now is against the Olympics and against the Olympic values,” he said.
    “Russia is a G8 country. They're one of the leaders of the world and they're supposed to lead by example. Thus far, they've been going backwards.”
     
  3. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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  4. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Lol Hamilton Man brought to mind Scott hamilton! Though rumors are he's homophobic!
     
  5. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    This is your pure hatred and true color.
     
  6. Sugar

    Sugar Well-Known Member

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    http://fcnp.com/2013/07/30/russia-this-berlin-wall-of-bigotry-shall-crumble-too/
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  7. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I don't think there'll be an orgy of violence and I'd argue that the international response to this law will actually increase security for the sake of the athletes. That stated, if absolutely nothing happens, I'd be relieved.

    And while I'm dissapointed to see the xenophobia in the comments, I won't deny that the responses of those in this thread rationalizing the law don't make me feel better either.
     
  8. allezfred

    allezfred Hideous Admin Staff Member

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    If you're going to copy and paste something for an article, can you put it in a quote box? Unless you want us to think you are as naive and unrealistic as the author of the linked article.
     
  9. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Whether or not nothing would happen will depends on both sides, not just the Russian authorities and their people. I'm sure the Russian authorities will do their best to protect the athletes and the visitors. There are many stupid laws in US. But once they become a law, it is expected everyone to follow the rules. This is a Russian law. Only the Russians could change it, not you. As a foreigner, you are expected to avoid deliberate confrontations with their laws no matter how you feel about them. If you cannot do that, then don't go there. Whether you like it or not, this is the truth.
     
  10. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    On the other hand.......Russia is hosting the Games. They should be a gracious host and assure the well being of athletes.,coaches.,officials and spectators. This is like saying no redheads will be allowed at the games. Open season to attack redheaded people its the law so it must be obeyed. So the top speed skater is a redheaded...Bah.. not allowed. Is that the Olympic ideal?
     
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  11. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    You have great imaginations. Did they say no redheads will be allowed at the games? I don't think they said that. They said that no redheaded public activities, where such activities could reach minors, are allowed. Is it attack to redheaded people? No. Is it unfair to redheaded people? Yes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty much an attack.

    Living in this hypothetical, how can redheaded people conduct their business and lives away from the public? Also, they can't always control the environment they are in to ensure it will never reach minors. Also, wouldn't the games be a public activity? Wouldn't minors be there?

    I guess what redheads can do is wear headgear covering all of their hair, and not have facial hair...much like how this law is basically forcing gay people to stay closeted in the public sphere. Or they can dye their hair to hide their red hair...much like a gay man or lesbian woman would try to pass off as straight. The only difference is that the redheaded man is forced to not have a beard while a gay man or lesbian woman will have to try to get one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  13. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Are you playing dumb, or are you really confused about it?
     
  14. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well, if a redheaded person were to attend the Olympic games in some capacity, he or she would be doing a public activity right? By virtue of having his red hair seen by the public, that would qualify as a public activity.

    As for the rest of my points...
     
  15. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    What are you on, its must be something really strong ?
     
  16. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you read the earlier posts, I wasn't the one who came up with the redhead analogy, nor was I the first one to take it further. See centerpt1 and Eyre's posts before mine. Of course, that wasn't the real point with your response to me, was it?
     
  17. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are allowed to criticise political leader, nothing wrong with that. I have strong objection to the person using ''Putinstan'', the reason being that some people thought it being funny was because of the deep prejudice against all the istan (all most all of them being predominantly Muslim).

    Especially on a topic that is raising a question about inequality, such kind of language is not acceptable (not that I am saying it is acceptable anywhere else). However, such usage here makes you point even more mute...
     
  18. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl: Thanks for the entertainment!
     
  19. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Ok then, clarify what you meant by public activity.
     
  20. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    It's not what I meant. It's what the law meant. Read post #390 in this thread by yaya124:

     
  21. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I can think of many kinds of straight sex that would fit this vague definition, but since this is a public part of FSU I'll leave it at that. Anyway, I guess that's not what they mean? If a kid is gay, they'll have "interest in such relationships" anyway. If they're straight, all that this sort of "propaganda" might do is get them to accept rather than bully their LGBTQ peers.

    The law is indefensible. Whether a boycott is warranted in response is certainly a matter for debate, however. Personally I'm against an Olympic boycott and for dealing with the situation in more effective ways.
     
  22. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    And my point was to substitute redhaired people with "non-traditional sexual relations" as you and centerpt1 did previously. Change the language of the law that you quoted and see how it works out.
     
  23. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    :respec: I could not agree more.
     
  24. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I'm definitely conflicted about that (and point that ultimately, it won't affect me because I wasn't going to go to Sochi in any capacity anyway; this law certainly wouldn't encourage me to change my mind, but it's not like I'd be going in it's absence). But I'd argue that by creating a law that criminalizes victims of hatred and ignorance, one creates an environment where hatred and ignorance is allowed to fester - especially when many attempt to root this hatred and ignorance in culture as if culture is an immutable force.
     
  25. Gil-Galad

    Gil-Galad Well-Known Member

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    I discovered that old age really mellowed my character, especially concerning politics. I no longer feel the need to have a clear-cut opition about everything and everyone - boycott; not boycott - the beginning of a new totalitarian regime in Russia; or just a small step back, that will turn out to be insignificant in the big scheme of things - I am simply not sure about it. And that's okay.
    If people choose to go and break the law, they won't get your sympathy. What if people choose to stay in countries and deliberately break the laws of that country - do those get your sympathy? It's technically the same situation. Do these people get your sympathy?

    What about people who go somewhere to draw attention to injustice, abuse etc. - are they worthy of sympathy if something happens to them?

    What if a gay couple went to Russia, they fully wanted to comply with the current laws - but one of them gets hurt, which leads to a public display of affection? Stupid idiots - why did they go in the first place? But maybe it was a business trip, they are also business partners and they needed to secure an important order? Stupid idiots - they should have only done business with gay-friendly countries then?

    Since when are people suddenly so "law-abiding"? So civil disobedience is dead? These were once the laws of my country. Laws passed by a government, that was more or less officially and legally elected by my people. My faith in laws is shaky at best. It's also not always easy and straightforward to follow the law, everytime I do my taxes I am afraid that I did it wrong and just became a criminal.

    I am not saying Russia is turning into a totalitarian state, Merlin knows, there are tons of brainless useless laws all over the world, in all countries. There are human right breaches in a every country. The news about Russian government's LGBT-campaign, they caused a mild feeling of annoyance and disappointment in myself.

    But people who try to downplay the effects of those laws, whose arrogance turns victims of those laws into idiots, who should have known better - these people are really dangerous. I find the lack of compassion, the sheer arrogance and blind belief in the inviolability of laws, that is on display in some of the posts here, to be truly appalling.
     
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  26. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    :watch::watch: This thread is getting more and more complicated. Debates on whether boycotts are justified and the best way to achieve its mean to arrogance and lack of compassion if one believes in the sanctity of a law.

    I don't think Angelskates and Eyre are downplaying the discriminatory law against LGBT people in Russia at all. What they are disagreeing, as far as I gather, is whether advocates against the discriminatory law should show their defiance by deliberately breaking the law in Russia. There are also debates on the safety of LGBT athletes going to Sochi within the confines of the Sochi village and outside the village.

    I find it baffling that you call Angelskates and Eyre dangerous and arrogant just because they think that outsiders should not deliberately enter Russia to break the law in order to show their defiance. Would you mind if some people who disagree with the laws in your country deliberately break the law? In some countries, men and women are forbidden to be in close proximity including holding hands. Personally I think the law is ridiculous in this era and having being brought up in a more open society. Should we enter the country to defy the law by holding hands and wearing skimpy clothes? Should we be pitied if we are thrown into jail in that country? Should our countries send troops into these countries to save us? I am not sure whether thumping our noses against the laws we disagree in other countries serves to heighten our own sense righteousness better or for the benefit of those who are most affected by the law. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Before we act, it may be prudent to determine the likely reaction.

    If we truly care for a cause, there are many venues to channel our energies towards the cause. If ignorance and fear is the cause of such a discriminatory law, perhaps educating the wider public in that country may create more acceptance and understanding. Or perhaps a call from one President to another President may be more effective especially if the law is applied in an authoritarian society/culture.
     
  27. patinage

    patinage Member

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    In the comments section of this article, one writer suggests holding Pride events during the Winter Olympics, to show solidarity and raise awareness of what is happening in Russia. One of the saner suggestions I've seen (along with boycotting Russian products).

    I suppose it's too much to hope that a skater or duo would skate to Over the Rainbow or True Colors at the Olympic gala (YMCA being right out of the question, of course).
     
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  28. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    You mean one President calling another President and trying to educate him? Wouldn't that imply that the other President is driven by ignorance and fear? If Russia is a democratic country that has indeed made lots of progress along the democratic path as they say, I have to wonder how a President who is driven by ignorance and fear can run a democratic country in the 21st century and educate the nation himself in the spirit of human rights and democratic values.

    What was the reaction of the Russian civil society to this new law? Did they have discussions in the media? Was the Russian gay community invited to public debates to express their viewpoint on the matter, anyone know?
     
  29. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    There is currently a petition on the We the People website which calls for two of the creators of the law in Russia to be banned from entering the USA. The petitition against entry for Elena Mizulina and Vitaly Milonov on the charge of human rights violations is near 5,000 signatures. The Russian Gay community is organizing Sochi Pride, a celebration of gay pride to be held during the games, so far Johnny Weir has agreed to be a part., there is also a protest planned for tomorrow at the Russian consulate.
     
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    COMMENTARY: Olympians speak out
    Gay athletes, allies plan to make statement with words and competition
    Updated: July 30, 2013, 4:42 PM ET
    By Johnette Howard | ESPN.com

    http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/9522393/olympians-speak-anti-gay-laws-russia (includes a 5-minute video segment "The Word: How Will Russia's Anti-Gay Policies Affect Sports?
    Jane McManus and Kate Fagan join Prim Siripipat to discuss how Russia's anti-gay policies might affect the 2014 Winter Olympics.")
    Excerpt from article:
     
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