Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. Capella

    Capella Guest

    In the photo gallery that is running with the article (below the Johnny Weir press conference photo)--I didn't realize Gracie Gold was out. Seems a bit strange to use an underage athlete, but I guess if they are ok with it...
  2. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    I agree. I think all the gay athletes, spectators and visitors should throw a daily pride parade while they are there. I doubt the Russian authorities would really do their usual when the world media is watching.
  3. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Yeah really. I knew he was a Russophile but I didn't know Johnny had switched his allegiance to Russia. :rolleyes:
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking you are being sarcastic, but that photostream is unrelated to the article. Max Aaron might also be surprised by his outing...
  5. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Btw it's Soviet bloc not 'block'.

    Agreed such government sanctioned behavior against ANY human beings should not be acceptable in 2013.
  6. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Perhaps you missed the history lessons where Columbus landed in the Caribean, not on the North American continent, and the genocides wrought by Spanish and Portuguese conquerors throughout the Caribbean, what became the southeastern US, Mexico, Central and South America beginning in the late 15th century, some on advanced civilizations?

    The New World has lots of finger-pointing opportunities.
  7. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to quote the bold. I know right? LOL.
  8. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    He refers to Russia as "their" country, so clearly not. Patriot may not have been exactly the word to use, but of course, no nitpicking will go unpicked!
  9. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But what happened with the lots of native people, who lived across the continent?
  10. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    In december 2012.

    http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121220/178294940.html

    Russian public figures, including Plushenko and his friends (Dima Bilan, Philipp Kirkorov, Nikolai Baskov), signed a petition to the president and the prime minister of Russia to ban St.Petersburg's city council member Vitaly Milonov, the author of the infamous law banning gay propaganda and other radical laws.
  11. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    I read this quote from Johnny "My advice would be: Watch what you do when you leave the Village, don't be aggressive, don't wear a big rainbow flag fur coat. If you don't call attention to yourself, attention won't come to you" and then I thought of some of his outfits.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=John...sp=42&ved=1t:429,r:90,s:100,i:274&tx=46&ty=93

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=John...sp=47&ved=1t:429,r:53,s:200,i:163&tx=73&ty=71

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=John...&tbnw=112&ndsp=53&ved=1t:429,r:64,s:100,i:196
  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    No rainbow flag fur coats there :)

    I also liked the quote that he won't be having sex on the Metro. Good to know, Johnny.
  13. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Definition of "patriot"

    Even given that second definition, AFAIK the only country with respect to which he could be a patriot is the United States. Either he misused the word, or he was misquoted. Having seen how I myself have been misquoted in the press, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he does actually know what the word "patriot" means.
  14. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Similar things that happened with lots of native peoples who lived across the South/Central American continent, the Caribbean, Mexico, etc. and earlier: death, enslavement, the destruction of cultures, maginalization and impoverishment of Native peoples that continues to this day. The impetus was different, but the results similar.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    It's also lazy to just finger point at low point(s) of a country's history as a way to defend another country's gross violation of fundamental human dignity.

    Every nation on this planet is guilty of some sort of atrocity in their past. What needs to be looked at is how that country is currently handling past wrongs (whether it be recognizing those wrongs, making institutional changes to make sure it does not happen again, offering reparations, etc.) to see if there has been any growth on that front.

    No country is perfect and hypocrisy is always going to happen. It's in human beings' nature to be hypocritical. However, people do what they can with the knowledge given and what the consensus allows them to get away with. There are things I believe my country, the U.S., is doing that are gross violations of human rights and I don't mind people brining them up any time the U.S. hosts something because these issues need to be raised. However, we are fooling ourselves if we think the IOC really cares about that. Outside of concentration camps or child labor or self-identifying absolute dictatorships, the IOC is willing to look past a lot...even now.

    That said, no amount of Western nation hypocrisy is going to change the fact that the Olympics are in Russia and Russia is CURRENTLY guilty of gay rights violations and atrocities. Whether you agree with Russia or not is a different issue, but you can't deny that their treatment of LGBTQ individuals is out-of-step with what is considered modernized nations.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  16. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I have some information about North-American history, but you know so much better, of course. So you can not prove me that the white settlers not persecuted the native people. Need to face the truth. I know Osceola's name, and his story, etc.
  17. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Of course white settlers persecuted Native Americans. That is a very well known, and very sad part of our history. Something that happened in the past does not justify something happening right now. Most Americans are ashamed of that part of our history, but we do not try to hide it. The government has made public apology to descendants, and in some cases reprirations have been paid.

    There are things going on now that many Americans consider to be human rights abuses, we are not a perfect country. In fact this week a new story came out that has angered people- killing citizens thought to be terrorists without giving them a trial. It is a huge deal.

    The fact that we still have issues doesn excuse inhumane actions by other countries either, everyone needs to clean up and treat people equally. (And Russia/Soviet Unioon has quite a bit of genocide in it's history, so I'm not sure what the purpose of pointing fingers here is.)
  18. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I know about the apology. But they live in closed poor territories even today. And I hate every genocide in history!!!
  19. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone here absolved the US (which is not all of North America - I don't blame the Canadians for what we did) of any responsibility for its wrongs, then or now, in the human rights area. That doesn't change, not one bit, Russia's responsiblity to human rights regarding the LGBT community.

    If we want to 'play' history, we had our "the trail of tears" (about which every American child learns and should learn) and you had gulags. But that's not the point. Russia has an upcoming Olympics and its treatment of the LGBT community could be in the spotlight, maybe should be in the spotlight. Perhaps scrutiny will prompt change - it often does.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  20. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    They don't need to be blamed for what we did- Canada did quite a bit of its own, IIRC. And the first persecution of the Native Americans was done well before the United States was even the United States, so we can go ahead and blame England for that. No white settlers were good to Native Americans, there were some tribes that co-mingled well (I think the French may have a better track record, but possible just in small areas), but just the disease we brought over in migration did a number on them.

    But yeah, mistreating a group of people hundreds of years ago by one set of countries is no excuse at all for another country to continue to do it in the modern day.


    Native Americans are full American citizens and can live whereever they would like in the US. If they wish to live on a reservation, the US has set aside areas that non-native americans cannot live on and give tax-benefits to the tribes who do live there, some tribes even choose to be sovereign governments. They are not closed off into these territories the way they were historically, they are fully able to integrate into any other area of American life. That many live in poverty and have issues with alcoholism, and poverty is hard to break free from is a different issue and one not confined only to Native Americans.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  21. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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    They can live on reservations by choice, but it isn't mandated. Native Americans (and Canadians) are free to live wherever they choose.
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Why would I try to prove that absurd statement. I was refuting your assertion that it was the worst genocide ever, when there was an earlier, similar genocide against Native peoples in the same hemisphere.
  23. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    This makes sense to me.

    I wish to add that sports and politics should not mix, if possible. Just like religion should be separate from the judiciary. Race, politics and religion are divisive and potent and we all know we cannot be absolutely similar even among siblings. Fighting and insult throwing will not change the hardcore and will antagonise the fence sitters. To change a culture or common way of thinking, I think education is the best way forward. (OK, I am an idealist.;) )
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  24. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Both the 1980 and 1984 summer Olympics were boycotted. Only 16 countries sent athletes to the 1980 olympics which were held in Moscow and they marched into the arena without their country's flags. The 1980 summer Olympics in Los Angeles was boycotted by the Soviet Union and some other communist countries.

    After both World Wars, the losing countries were not even invited to take part in the Olympics.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  25. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    I'm just wondering this: Does anyone contend anything was accomplished by these boycotts?
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    There are no anti-gay laws in China any more.

    Of course I get your point about China in general but it is very slowly opening up. Russia, on the other hand, seems to be going in exactly the opposite direction. :(
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  27. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I remember hearing a joke about how Jimmy Carter's boycott of the 1980 Games created a new group of Republicans from those athletes. If that was even partially true, then I guess one can argue it accomplished something. ;)
  28. kalamalka

    kalamalka Member

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    It was 3 summer games in a row that were boycotted - the first was a boycott by mainly African countries of Montreal in 1976. The issue there wasn't Canada, but related to New Zealand playing rugby with South Africa. It did have a significant impact on the Olympics, though, and probably encouraged the boycott of Moscow four years later.
  29. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    I'm Asian-American so I definitely appreciate the importance of respecting cultural differences, but there is such a thing as taking cultural relativism too far. Can we use culture to justify any country stoning rape victims in this day and age? (Which certainly happens)

    It's one thing if Russia just didn't allow gay marriage. The US itself is still figuring that out. But gay people have problems even just living day to day there. And LGBTQ oppression isn't even the only human rights issue in Russia.

    Of course, I agree that the IOC likely doesn't care - short of genocide.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  30. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    No, the only thing that happened was that athletes who worked all their lives to be in the Olympics were denied the chance to compete, many like the gymnasts of 1980 were unable to compete in 1984 because their bodies did not hold up for four more years.
  31. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't heard of Belita before. The vid is from the 1970s ... I wonder is she still alive? Is there any more information on her such as in a book, or a list of her films?
  32. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    She is not still alive, she passed away in 2005.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belita

    There are tons of her videos on youtube. Gorgeous candlestick spiral.
  33. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Thanks Skittl1321. :)
  34. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Yes, some African-American and Jewish athletes competed or won medals in 1936. But that does not excuse how the IOC conveniently interpreted or outright ignored the awful things that were happening in Germany to "outsiders".
  35. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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  36. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    80 countries participated and lots went in with their flags.
  37. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Which venues are those?
  38. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    This has nothing to do with skating and should be put in another section of the forum that deals with outside non-skating matters. jmho.
  39. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much every single city that has hosted the Olympics. Best recent example is Athens. Unused, unneeded venues, falling into ruin already.

    Other than Barcelona and maybe one or two other examples, all the cities hosting the Olympics failed to turn the games into long-term development and just managed to bankrupt themselves.

    It will be interesting to see how London fares. It's something they've apparently put a lot of thought and planning into.
  40. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I understand the appeal of wanting everything centralizied- but what city could possibly use and support all those sports facilities? Having the Olympics spread out over a broader area makes a LOT more sense. Then many cities in the same general area could benefit from new facilities- one a soccer stadium, one a swimming, one a track, etc, rather than one city being totally burdened by it.
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