Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Feb 7, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

    3,428
    433
    83
    You do realize they let the Olympics go to China. What are you expecting? By comparison Russia is liberal

    LOL!
     
  2. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

    3,428
    433
    83
    I expect he will.. as an NBC commentator or something.
     
  3. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    9,402
    1,913
    113
    I hope that there will be an Olympics in West Hollywood, the medals are in the shape of same sex naughty bits doing the nitty gritty, and that Russia wins all the gold medals.

    That is all. :slinkaway
     
    Ozzisk8tr and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

    5,116
    1,363
    113
    ITA. We can do that, in whichever country we are.
     
  5. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Now ubering Machida's hair

    1,978
    761
    113

    Denmark has bene repeatedly reprimanded by then Amnesty International for excessive use of isolation cells for prisoners.
    In addition, there is a very uncomfortable climate for Muslims and other immigration in general (xenophobic I would say). There is a lot of US and THEM in the media, though most immigrants from Muslim countries have Danish citizenship.

    Then there is issues around not granting asylum to refugees or keeping them in waiting camps not able to work or do anything useful with their lives while their cases are being procesed.


    I any case, no country is perfect, there is always some human rights issues (the US has those in droves too). Of course you can say that any democracy is better than, say, communist China, but is it really the IOC's job to figure out where to draw the line - boyond ensuring all athletes their safety and inclusion regardless of age, gender, eniticity, religion or sexual orientation?

    I get where the complaints are coming from, I just think sometimes we have to realize that the IOC is a international organization which is created to be apolitical and try to get everyone together.


    Edit to add: agree that each person have to speak up against injustice, where ever it is.
     
  6. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    9,442
    2,039
    113
    The countries bid to host an Olympics to have the rest of the world place their attention on them, so if some of that attention is negative (as long as it's fair, of course), then so be it. In 2010, Canada's record on animal rights (clubbing baby seals), aboriginal rights and homelessness was spotlighted.

    But when the Games actually begin, all those stories are set aside for the sports. I'll be surprised if Russia's record on gay rights will be discussed when there's figure skating on.
     
  7. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,116
    198
    63
    deleted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  8. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,116
    198
    63
    I don't like the North-American hypocricy... What did they do with the Native American people? That was the biggest genocide in history. I admire that people! It would be better, if the Americans would solve this problem, at first. But you don't get me wrong, I hope everything will be fine and the gays will have every rights in Sochi.
    Unfortunately, in my country the gays also in bad situation , and many people also hates immigrants, and the refugees. And I hate that! But probably it's a slow process, and it will be better 10-20 years time. I think the Americans are so different people, they easy to accept the otherness.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  9. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    18,162
    2,710
    113
    There were all kinds of machinations behind the scenes to give the 1936 Olympics (winter and summer) to Germany, even though everyone knew that Jews were being discriminated against in that country (along with other "un-Aryan" groups or ethnicities). The IOC and some of the national federations engaged in some really shameful behaviour of appeasement to let the Games go ahead.

    This book is an excellent description of what went on then: http://www.amazon.com/Berlin-Games-Nazis-Stole-Olympic/dp/0060874139
     
  10. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,116
    198
    63
    Yes, but Rudolf Vilma showed who is the best!!!
     
  11. Capella

    Capella Guest

    In the photo gallery that is running with the article (below the Johnny Weir press conference photo)--I didn't realize Gracie Gold was out. Seems a bit strange to use an underage athlete, but I guess if they are ok with it...
     
  12. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

    7,833
    2,166
    113
    I agree. I think all the gay athletes, spectators and visitors should throw a daily pride parade while they are there. I doubt the Russian authorities would really do their usual when the world media is watching.
     
  13. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    3,757
    324
    83
    Yeah really. I knew he was a Russophile but I didn't know Johnny had switched his allegiance to Russia. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    12,018
    1,355
    113
    I'm thinking you are being sarcastic, but that photostream is unrelated to the article. Max Aaron might also be surprised by his outing...
     
  15. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    3,757
    324
    83
    Btw it's Soviet bloc not 'block'.

    Agreed such government sanctioned behavior against ANY human beings should not be acceptable in 2013.
     
  16. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,829
    3,709
    113
    Perhaps you missed the history lessons where Columbus landed in the Caribean, not on the North American continent, and the genocides wrought by Spanish and Portuguese conquerors throughout the Caribbean, what became the southeastern US, Mexico, Central and South America beginning in the late 15th century, some on advanced civilizations?

    The New World has lots of finger-pointing opportunities.
     
  17. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    6,567
    276
    83
    Just wanted to quote the bold. I know right? LOL.
     
  18. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

    42,979
    4,886
    113
    He refers to Russia as "their" country, so clearly not. Patriot may not have been exactly the word to use, but of course, no nitpicking will go unpicked!
     
  19. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,116
    198
    63
    Maybe. But what happened with the lots of native people, who lived across the continent?
     
  20. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,116
    198
    63
    In december 2012.

    http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121220/178294940.html

    Russian public figures, including Plushenko and his friends (Dima Bilan, Philipp Kirkorov, Nikolai Baskov), signed a petition to the president and the prime minister of Russia to ban St.Petersburg's city council member Vitaly Milonov, the author of the infamous law banning gay propaganda and other radical laws.
     
  21. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

    13,409
    1,862
    113
    I read this quote from Johnny "My advice would be: Watch what you do when you leave the Village, don't be aggressive, don't wear a big rainbow flag fur coat. If you don't call attention to yourself, attention won't come to you" and then I thought of some of his outfits.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=John...sp=42&ved=1t:429,r:90,s:100,i:274&tx=46&ty=93

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=John...sp=47&ved=1t:429,r:53,s:200,i:163&tx=73&ty=71

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=John...&tbnw=112&ndsp=53&ved=1t:429,r:64,s:100,i:196
     
  22. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    12,018
    1,355
    113
    No rainbow flag fur coats there :)

    I also liked the quote that he won't be having sex on the Metro. Good to know, Johnny.
     
  23. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    3,789
    928
    113
    Definition of "patriot"

    Even given that second definition, AFAIK the only country with respect to which he could be a patriot is the United States. Either he misused the word, or he was misquoted. Having seen how I myself have been misquoted in the press, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he does actually know what the word "patriot" means.
     
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,829
    3,709
    113
    Similar things that happened with lots of native peoples who lived across the South/Central American continent, the Caribbean, Mexico, etc. and earlier: death, enslavement, the destruction of cultures, maginalization and impoverishment of Native peoples that continues to this day. The impetus was different, but the results similar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  25. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    10,268
    2,185
    113
    It's also lazy to just finger point at low point(s) of a country's history as a way to defend another country's gross violation of fundamental human dignity.

    Every nation on this planet is guilty of some sort of atrocity in their past. What needs to be looked at is how that country is currently handling past wrongs (whether it be recognizing those wrongs, making institutional changes to make sure it does not happen again, offering reparations, etc.) to see if there has been any growth on that front.

    No country is perfect and hypocrisy is always going to happen. It's in human beings' nature to be hypocritical. However, people do what they can with the knowledge given and what the consensus allows them to get away with. There are things I believe my country, the U.S., is doing that are gross violations of human rights and I don't mind people brining them up any time the U.S. hosts something because these issues need to be raised. However, we are fooling ourselves if we think the IOC really cares about that. Outside of concentration camps or child labor or self-identifying absolute dictatorships, the IOC is willing to look past a lot...even now.

    That said, no amount of Western nation hypocrisy is going to change the fact that the Olympics are in Russia and Russia is CURRENTLY guilty of gay rights violations and atrocities. Whether you agree with Russia or not is a different issue, but you can't deny that their treatment of LGBTQ individuals is out-of-step with what is considered modernized nations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  26. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,116
    198
    63
    I have some information about North-American history, but you know so much better, of course. So you can not prove me that the white settlers not persecuted the native people. Need to face the truth. I know Osceola's name, and his story, etc.
     
  27. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    12,018
    1,355
    113
    Of course white settlers persecuted Native Americans. That is a very well known, and very sad part of our history. Something that happened in the past does not justify something happening right now. Most Americans are ashamed of that part of our history, but we do not try to hide it. The government has made public apology to descendants, and in some cases reprirations have been paid.

    There are things going on now that many Americans consider to be human rights abuses, we are not a perfect country. In fact this week a new story came out that has angered people- killing citizens thought to be terrorists without giving them a trial. It is a huge deal.

    The fact that we still have issues doesn excuse inhumane actions by other countries either, everyone needs to clean up and treat people equally. (And Russia/Soviet Unioon has quite a bit of genocide in it's history, so I'm not sure what the purpose of pointing fingers here is.)
     
  28. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    2,116
    198
    63
    I know about the apology. But they live in closed poor territories even today. And I hate every genocide in history!!!
     
  29. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    1,630
    364
    83
    I don't think anyone here absolved the US (which is not all of North America - I don't blame the Canadians for what we did) of any responsibility for its wrongs, then or now, in the human rights area. That doesn't change, not one bit, Russia's responsiblity to human rights regarding the LGBT community.

    If we want to 'play' history, we had our "the trail of tears" (about which every American child learns and should learn) and you had gulags. But that's not the point. Russia has an upcoming Olympics and its treatment of the LGBT community could be in the spotlight, maybe should be in the spotlight. Perhaps scrutiny will prompt change - it often does.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  30. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    12,018
    1,355
    113
    They don't need to be blamed for what we did- Canada did quite a bit of its own, IIRC. And the first persecution of the Native Americans was done well before the United States was even the United States, so we can go ahead and blame England for that. No white settlers were good to Native Americans, there were some tribes that co-mingled well (I think the French may have a better track record, but possible just in small areas), but just the disease we brought over in migration did a number on them.

    But yeah, mistreating a group of people hundreds of years ago by one set of countries is no excuse at all for another country to continue to do it in the modern day.


    Native Americans are full American citizens and can live whereever they would like in the US. If they wish to live on a reservation, the US has set aside areas that non-native americans cannot live on and give tax-benefits to the tribes who do live there, some tribes even choose to be sovereign governments. They are not closed off into these territories the way they were historically, they are fully able to integrate into any other area of American life. That many live in poverty and have issues with alcoholism, and poverty is hard to break free from is a different issue and one not confined only to Native Americans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.