Skating 'queen' Kim set to return (Threads merged)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    It's great she's back looking so fit, and it's wonderful to see that gorgeous 3z, and the 3z3t combo.

    But those in charge of implementing NJS have a long way to go.

    Also....what would impress me the most is if she FINALLY re-organizes her SP so that the 2 most difficult elements are not the first two elements performed. But I'm sure her Ch/Comp score will continue to be one of the highest, if not the highest, out there. :rolleyes:
     
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  2. jatale

    jatale New Member

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    Gee, that sounds like a real objective opinion... Emotion running things for you is it? You know that your eyes will see what you want them to see, so if you want bad that is what you will see.
     
  3. naan

    naan New Member

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    Well, Mao got almost 197 with 5 clean triples (only 3F, 3Lo), but Yuna landed 9 triples (including three true 3Lz!), and got 201.6! Compared to Mao, Yuna's score is quite reasonable! (rather underscored)
     
  4. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    I wouldn't say underscored but Yuna's score was pretty fair considering what she put out. She was very marginally overscored on PCS in the long considering the fall and a slow second half (I'm talking just a tad, maybe a point or two. Don't hate me ;)) And the GOE on her SlSt in the short was overscored as it was choppy and stumbly. Otherwise well done :)
     
  5. naan

    naan New Member

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    cbd1235, I said 'compared to Mao', answering to Amy03's post ;)
    I think Yuna got generous PCS despite some mistakes, too. But not too much, just 2-3 points. Maybe judges were very excited to see her comeback :D
     
  6. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

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    Seriously, where did you learn to calculate :rofl:, since when did certain jumps disappear, I didn't know that counting was so hard to do, I will give you a hand, in Mao's performance and in her protocol you will find 8 triples, including level 4 on all of Mao's spins and steps!

    You say that yunas score is quite reasonable, so you call a skater with falls, popped jumps, level 1-4 on the spins who received a ridiculous 69 in PCS as reasonable, did you ever see a clean performance by any other skater receive that kind of PCS, I am just asking!

    Did you ever see a skater with no height or weight, no difficult entrance or exit receive plus 3 in goe, if you call this reasonable, then all the competing skaters PCS and Goe is certainly UNREASONABLE!
     
  7. riveredge

    riveredge Active Member

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    Correction, she had only 1 fall.

    Well, considering NRW trophy is a B event, so inflated scores are much expected. However I'm even surprised that it was not that high. Anyway.. it's not like Yuna won with only 3 triples, NHK anyone?
     
  8. naan

    naan New Member

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    :huh: Did Mao land 8 clean triples at GPF? Do you count UR jumps and Flutz as CLEAN triples?

    Yes, Yuna's score looks very reasonable and fair considering Mao got 197 with 5 triples (without 3-3, 3Lz). Yuna's PCS was generous, but not that much. And it's the B-event! Even Korpi got 69.3 in the SP with 3T-3T and 3Lo!

    Do you mean Yuna has no height or weight(?) and no difficult entrance on her jumps? :confused:
     
  9. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    This is a bit of a double standard...Mao also popped a jump, not to mention she underrotated two other triples, something Yuna didn't do. Mao also had a bad flutz which was generously gifted with not so bad GOE's. I'm more of a Mao fan than a Yuna fan but I like to be objective as possible. I love both skaters, Yuna's jumps are very exciting, Maos balletic qualities are uplifting.

    The worst part of your double standard is that apart from Yuna's sal which is meh, Yuna's jumps are ALL much higher than Maos, and they have more flow coming out. No contest. You can't just say that Yuna's jumps have no height. The height and wow-factor of Yuna's jumps are certainly meriting of high GOE's, maybe not as high as a couple of judges gave her, but that's what to expect from Senior B judges.

    I would call Yuna's fall a bit worse than Mao's two UR's (And an awful flutz), but not a travesty.....Mao got a 69 for PCS. I would certainly not call Yuna's 69 ridiculous, I would call it a tad over what it should have been, at best. Mao and Yuna are very comparable "goddesses" of the world of skating in my opinion.
     
  10. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Yuna has a great LP IMO and she seems really serious about resuming her eligible career. Well done for her first outing after quite a long absence from competitive ice. Does she plan on going to the 4CC? Because I'm thinking it would take more than one competition leading into Worlds for her to feel comfortable with her new programs.
     
  11. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Not even when Kwan skated to it in 1998? :p
     
  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    If both skate well, I think it's going to be a lot closer than in 2010. Kim attempts 6 triples and 2 2axels and Asada attempts 7 triples and 1 2axel. Kim has the edge in the short due to the 3/3, but Asada is also consistently getting level 4s on her spins and steps and getting GOEs on them. With jump GOEs not worth as much as they were in 2010, I think there can certainly be real competition between these two if they both skate well. The caller will also play a big part since many of Asada's jumps seem to be on the borderline all the time. Now throw in a rejunenated Kostner and we have a party. :D
     
  13. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    It's one of my lower-tiered Kwan exhibitions (outside the Annie Lennox or both Alicia Keys ones). Thank goodness that she debuted Dante's Prayer later that season.
     
  14. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Forget what fan you are (Mao/Yu Na). She should be proud of herself. The humility of going to a lower event when you are the raigning champion and worth more than a combination of any two people in the room. the way that she somehow was able to maintain her difficulty is just un real. I have heard the word amazing used to describe a lot of people, circumstances and events and no matter how overused, its still ill fitting to describe what i saw in Kim. Brilliance
     
  15. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    If YuNa skates well, she will certainly get level 4 for spins and steps. She used to get level 4 for spins, and prior to 2010, Mao also could not get level 4 for steps. Level 4 steps are not so rare currently.
     
  16. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    With the way she skates, even if she was kidding about her resurgence, it would seriously put her at the top. I am a huge Mao fan and i'm eating humble pie after watching Kim. the mistakes to me i overlook because the rest has gotten better than when she won the Olympics. All of this stuff Mao has done in the past few years and she STILL has no clean triple triple and her axel is only a memory. I'm not really sure if the revamping was smart. I think that she might have done better to do what Nicks did for Wagner and change things slightly so as to make them more consistent. I do have to say that i am not qualified to include that suggestion because a complete overhall might have been completely necessary. I do hope Mao surges ahead but it's not looking apples to apples at this point.
     
  17. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    This basically sums up everything for me! Well-put.
     
  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    It's really hard to say if the revamping was the right thing for Mao. She was getting killed by the judges on so many of her jumps and she really had to learn new jumps like salchow and toe loop. She had abandoned the lutz, so her repertoire had become very limited. With the COP, a 3-3 is not as powerful as it was in the 6.0, but when Yu na is doing two 3lutzes and Mao does not do even one clean lutz, it's tough to beat Yu na Kim. IMO Mao has no choice but to bring back the 3A. She is more comfortable with the axel and the loop, so she needs to use her strengths, and not spend too much time on her weaknesses. JMO. I don't really agree that she should have done what Ashley did. Ashley's problems were more mental, and less technical. Unfortunately Mao's early success really hurt her. When she was winning, there was no motivation for her to clean up her jumps. Later when the rules were tightened, it became very difficult for her. I give her credit for working hard to improve as a skater/jumper.
     
  19. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Yuna's performance seemed sloppy to me. The jumps were good in the beginning, but then seemed to run out of steam toward the end. I find the grey dress all kinds of unflattering.
     
  20. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Kim‘s LP program looks difficult. I can understand why she received high PCS despite mistakes.
    But she needs more work on spins & stamina.
     
  21. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Love the fact that Yuna is truly coming back. There were so many talks about come-backs but so far, the only 'come back' I saw was Weir and Yuna. Unfortunately, Weir got injured and a come-back became a non-come back. Yuna still has the talent (they don't disappear) and all she need is training and work towards Sochi. I think she may place a more realistic goal for 2013 Worlds as I believe her sight is set for 2014. Whatever ... it takes a lot for someone who is so famous to come back. It's a huge risk to her reputation not to win OGM but realistically, knowing her calibre, it is possible though not absolute since there are other upcoming skaters. I am not complaining..... the ladies will push each other to excel just like the men.
    Welcome back to competitions, Yuna. You can do it!
     
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  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    9 triples???? What are you smoking? The ladies are allowed only 7 triples. It seems you counted some of her doubles (or may be even the fall) as triples. From reading your posts, I am getting that you worship Yu na to the extent you cannot see the reality.

    Mao's program was much more polished and delivered better than Yu na's. She had more transitions, better footwork, better spins to justify her tech marks and the PCS. It's not just the number of jumps that is counted. Yu na did a single axel, popped the double toe after that, and she had a fall in her program. She did not have many transitions in this program. I believe it's a work in progress, so it will get better, but at this time this skate was not better than Mao's. The lutzes were gorgeous and for someone that had been away a long time she skated great, but to say her skate in this competition was better than Mao's well delivered skate at GPF is ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  23. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    9 triples in the short and long combined, maybe?
     
  24. naan

    naan New Member

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    I'm not smoking! :rolleyes: I was saying jumps in SP+LP! OK, I'll not count her 3S (even though she landed), because she had a fall in 2T. But still, she landed 8 triples in SP+LP including difficult three 3Lz.
    And I DIDN'T say that Yuna was better. I said Yuna's score looks REASONABLE considering Mao's weak jump contents. Mao got 185 with only 4 clean triples in the SP and LP combined (3F, 3Lo) at NHK, and her performance there was just meh!
    I agree with you that Mao's skating was more polished and she delivered better than Yuna. It's natural, because it was Yuna's FIRST competition after a long break, and Mao already had a chance to skate her programs 3-4 times this season. Yuna just needs time to improve her spins, steps, and most of all, her stamina.
    However, I don't get it about transitions. I don't think Mao has many transitions at all. Nothing special until the step starts.
     
  25. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Agreed that one thing to point out is that Mao has hardly more transitions than Yuna. Mao is fantastic at making very basic edges and steps look like a million bucks, and she does just that. It gives the illusion of fantastic transitions but she really doesn't have that much. Not a criticism of Mao, but you can't say Yuna has a lot less in terms of transitions...
     
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Is it fair to count SP+LP for Yu na but only LP for Mao?
     
  27. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Read my post again. I am making concessions for Yu na's program being new, and guessing that it will get better. However, Yu na getting a higher score (>201) than Mao's (< 197) is not right. The polish and delivery do count. Yu na was overmarked.
     
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  28. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    I don't know--I wasn't the one doing the counting; just intrerpreting what the poster probably meant.
     
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  29. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    The original poster was excluding underrotated jumps and flutzes:

    Mao: 3F sp, 3Lo sp, 3Lo lp, 3T< lp, 3Lz-e lp, 3F< lp, 3Lo lp, 3F lp (I personally would have counted the flutz in there, but I guess it's still a mistake) - 5 triples (6 rotated, one with a flutz)

    Yuna: 3Lz sp, 3T sp, 3F sp, 3Lz lp, 3T lp, 3F lp, 3S lp, 3Lz lp, 3S (fall on combo) - 8 triples (9 rotated, 1 fell)

    This isn't from me, I'm just counting the way the original poster did. It's clear that Yuna had the technical edge though. Meh axel in sp, fall on sal combo, and popped lp combo are made up by the extra technical content I'd say
     
  30. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Oh, please, can we stop going on and on about Yuna vs Mao quarrel(to put it nicely at least)? They're both beautiful skaters who have their own best qualities. (I know I'm being naive.):yawn: