Skate Canada's international selection criteria for Senior B & JGP assignments

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    I wonder who will get the TBD host pick for ladies at Skate Canada. I thought the Salt Lake City and Nebelhorn assignments would give us a clue, but nope!
     
  2. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    Thanks Sylvia for the info.

    SC seems to want to keep it a secret on the TBA for SCI. I don't think after Nebelhorn there is anything else internationally. Desanctis was there last year. But my bet would be on Charbonneau. When you look at the senior scores from the ladies this year, Grenier has scored ok. But that was at Quebec summer skate.
     
  3. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Finlandia is still an option.
     
  4. ChiquitaBanana

    ChiquitaBanana Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they wanted to know how was Samson's skating...
     
  5. geoskate

    geoskate Well-Known Member

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    I'm very glad to see Elladj Baldé get a Senior B assignment. With the improvements that have resulted from his new coaching situation (and, apparently, no injuries), he could do well at Nebelhorn.
     
  6. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Fingers and toes crossed!
     
  7. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    It is hard to understand SC rationale when it applies to the ladies group. They have selected well for the JGP so far. But then they seem to miss something with the seniors. Knowing they have 2 slots for the US senior B and only send Lacoste. Then with one spot at nebelhorn they send one. So one spot is lost to a potential SCI TBA. Have they decided to go with a youth movement and only giving Lacoste a Senior B because they had to assign her to SCI? Have they lost interest in Charboneau and Grenirer (excluded Najarro and Phaneuf -injury)? I personally agree with the youth movement. Lacoste did not raise any eyebrows at Quebec, Phaneuf is injured, Desanctis has been competing but yawn, and Najarro is injured. That leaves Osmond to lead the way and has shown in summer comps she is willing. Lacoste and Osmond head to head at SCI. I think with the international judging Osmond beats Lacoste. Will be interesting.
     
  8. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I actually think that what they've done makes a certain amount of sense. I was initially confused by the Lacoste assignment, because I had forgotten that she only has one GP. But I can definitely understand why SC would want their national champion to have a second assignment. And Osmond definitely needed a senior B...I just wish she could get another one. To me, Osmond was by far the most impressive Canadian lady last seaon and desperately needs ISU points because she is way down in 82nd place in the ISU World Rankings. If we had enough spots, I'd send Charbonneau and/or Samson to a Senior B (and Finlandia may still be an option), but not at the expense of Lacoste or especially Osmond.

    I've actually been reasonably impressed with the assignments that SC has done so far. All of the skaters who only have one GP (Firus, Rogozine, Lacoste, Osmond, Ralph & Hill) were assigned to a senior B. Paul & Islam got two Bs to help make up for not having a GP. Ten & Balde both get a B, giving a chance to figure one whether one of them (or Rogozine) should get the SC spot. And since Gilles & Poirier are starting out with no ISU points, it's good for them to have a B as well. The JGP assignments also look good, with the first assignments going to the three ladies I think have the most potential and actually using all of the pairs assignments. I'm often very critical of SC's assignment process, so I feel like this is a minor miracle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
  9. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    I agree with all you are saying. Just wish SC could have sent another to US Senior B
     
  10. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I've heard that Kate Charbonneau scored somewhere in the 120s (total score) at the MN State Championships last weekend. I believe that's been her only summer competition this year, correct?
     
  11. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    I believe she done Broadmoor and Detroit comps too
     
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Charbonneau's highest summer competition score that I know of is 132.77 at Skate Detroit (91.63 in FS Final round), up from her 112.16 total at Broadmoor Open in June (where she intentionally doubled most of her jumps in her FS).
     
  13. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    I don't disagree with giving Lacoste and Osmond the senior Bs. I just don't know what they are thinking in regards to the host pick for Skate Canada. And not using the second spot at the US senior B doesnt make sense since they are using both spots for mens, pairs, and dance.
     
  14. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree with you there. I guess I had assumed that perhaps the US didn't want a second Canadian lady (and I wouldn't be able to blame them if so :shuffle:), but if we really are entitled to send two ladies, it does seem silly not to send Charbonneau, given that she has met the SC standards.
     
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    According to the event announcement, the US can send three for each discipline, Canada two, and all other Feds one. Whether the US wants or doesn't want a second Canadian Lady should be irrelevant, because they officially invited Canada to send two. (They should be happy: entry fee plus relatively easy competition for their skaters.)

    Next year, when there's history, they could follow the Nebelhorn example and make spots based on the prior year's results, but unless Canada launches its own Senior B, that would be nasty, since it's the only Senior B on the NA continent. I wish the privilege had been extended to Mexico, too.
     
  16. judge

    judge New Member

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    Why do you think that he didn't deserve the PC scores that he got? He had a couple of poor performances, especially in the free.
     
  17. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Godfrey made even Ten look scratchy by comparison.
     
  18. blademate

    blademate Member

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    I believe Skate Canada has basically washed it's hands of the current crop of Senior Ladies - Charbonneau and Grenier included - and is focused on developing the promising crop of Junior talent, with the hope at least a few will survive puberty and save Canadian ladies skating.

    Lacoste is obviously an exception at this point, but if she loses the National title to Osmond or anyone else, I suspect Skate Canada will be pretty much done with her as well, barring significant improvements.

    Based on the results of this year's summer competitions, IMO, this may be a wise strategy.
     
  19. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually surprised SC hasn't washed their hands of Lacoste too.

    It'll be interesting to see where Phaneuf fits in to all of this.
     
  20. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    SC can't discard of Lacoste yet. She is national champion.

    Unless Phaneuf improves her jump confidence she may have to reconsider her skating career
     
  21. judge

    judge New Member

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    So that might partially explain your thoughts on skating skills. What about the rest of them? There is a lot more than skating flow to PC marks, fyi.
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    According to the criteria:

    • Balance, rhythmic knee action, and precision of foot placement
    • Flow and effortless glide
    • Rhythm, strength, clean strokes, and an efficient use of lean create a steady run to the blade and an ease of transfer of weight resulting in seemingly effortless power and acceleration.
    • Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps, and turns
    • The skater should demonstrate clean and controlled curves, deep edges, and steps.
    • Varied use of power/energy, speed, and acceleration
    • Variety is the gradation – some of which may be subtle
    • Multi directional skating
    • Includes all direction of skating: forward and backward, clockwise and counterclockwise including rotation in both directions.
    • Mastery of one foot skating--No over use of skating on two feet.

    It's very difficult to have flow -- true flow, not just powering through -- without having cleanness and sureness of the edges, steps, and turns, and he managed to maintain through varied use of speed and acceleration. He didn't appear to me to have significantly less multi-directional skating or significantly more two-footed skating than other some of the other men in the competition who scored at least 2 points higher than him and among the junior skaters who scored higher than them. (CoP judging doesn't have separate standards for Juniors.) When moving, on the whole he looked well centered and controlled, although he was clearly demoralized by the end of his FS.

    His jumps were a mess, but, on the other hand, Liam Firus fell four times and had at least one very skating spin entrance as well, or major failures on 40% of his elements. I wouldn't put Godfrey in the same league as Firus -- I think there are two types of skaters, the strength skaters and the softer ones (Reynolds these days, Takahashi, Abbott, Korzuka, Gachinsky for example), and that of the strength skaters, only Patrick Chan surpasses him on his blades. However, looking at how close the range of PCS were for each skater, similar to most international judging, was a huge but familiar disappointment, as the point of CoP is to give credit where it is due, and what I see was the equivalent of ordinal placements, and the dismissal of what I saw were a skater's strengths.
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    I agree that Charbonneau deserves to be considered for a Senior B based on her summer performances (Skate Detroit FS Final, MN State Champs SP), but maybe Skate Canada is only sending 1 lady to Salt Lake City because they are trying to give Lacoste the opportunity to gain more ISU World Standings ranking points to improve her Grand Prix starting order number? This what I posted in the Salt Lake Senior B thread in GSD:

    Here's how the Skate Canada SP start order would look like based on the current ISU World Standings:
    ?? TBA CAN
    82 Kaetlyn Osmond CAN - 338 points
    55 Gracie Gold USA - 700
    26 Caroline Zhang USA - 1315
    21 Amélie Lacoste CAN - 1536 (has a chance to move into 2nd group IF she places top 4 in Salt Lake and Liza T. doesn't compete in a Sr B before SC)
    ---
    14 Elizaveta Tuktamysheva RUS - 1694
    11 Ksenia Makarova RUS
    10 Elene Gedevanishvili GEO
    6 Kanako Murakami JPN
    2 Akiko Suzuki JPN
     
  24. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Lacoste wouldn't be the first ladies national champion SC has discarded. :shuffle:
     
  25. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Firus fell FOUR times? Ugh. Any sign of a 3A?
     
  26. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I suspect Charbonneau's season last year is also factored into the decision of not getting any assignments.

    As for Skate Canada caring about Lacoste's start order, I'm not quite sure why they'd care....it's not like she has a shot of the podium or anything.

    What does one vs. two ladies being sent to SLC have to do with her ranking? Or are you saying that they're only sending Lacoste in case Charbonneau were to happen to beat Lacoste there?
     
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Yes, Firus attempted 3A in his FS and fell (got credit for rotating it according to the protocol) -- kwanfan1818 wrote up a Senior Men's FS report in the BC SummerSkate thread here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3661960#post3661960

    Yeah, that's what I was trying to say -- just my hypothesis.
     
  28. lyneyuki

    lyneyuki Member

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  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    He fell on 3A attempts in both the SP and FS, both fully rotated at least. The landings didn't look close though, like when a jump is great until the blade slips out on landing at the last minute. He downgraded a combo in the FS to 1A/2T: I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a 3A/2T or a 2A/2T/2T (since he didn't have a three-jump combo), and his other two combos were 2A/3T and 2Lz/3T, which I assume was supposed to be 3Lz/3T, like in the SP.
     
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Do you mean by not sending another Canadian Lady, there's not another Canadian Lady who can beat her and push her down the results, causing her to lose points?

    The only two I can see who meets the SC criteria are Osmond, and she's going to Nebelhorn, and Kitty Qian, although since her hardest jump is 3Lo -- which won the Olympics for John Curry and Robin Cousins -- with 138.X at BC Summerskate, she might not "have attained a score that demonstrates a top 5 placement at that level of competition."

    The way I'm reading the International Selection criteria, they can waive the minimum score from a 2012 summer competition requirement for JPG and Senior B's "in extenuating circumstances," but they don't have a provision to allow skaters to skip summer competitions and be assigned, unless they are top 5 at Worlds and assigned two GPs. They could claim "extenuating circumstances" for deSanctis, who was seen bleeding from her hand during her Thornhill FS, but she'd have to recover from that. She would have needed an 82 in the FS to meet the Sr. International minimum, which she did easily at Canadian Nationals last year (FS=96.61), but then so did Najarro, Charbonneau, Grenier, and Rheault. (Chartrand missed by under two points.)