Skate Canada winner Kaetlyn Osmond a cool customer in debut

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    A very large magic portion, to be sure!

    :mad: Are you implying that *I* or my very good friends here at FSU do not know as much about everything figure skating-related...than the judges do? (If not more?) /sarcasm :p
     
  2. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    Hold on. Aren't you Kanadian? And therefore part of the eville, widespread Kanadian Konspiracy to rule figure skating and thereafter the known universe? And didn't you yourself say "Never. Trust. Canadians"? Or have I just had too many Spritzes this weekend?
     
  3. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Shhh ... Don't say anything. PeterG is our sleeper agent. No one is supposed to know he is actually an evil Kanadian. :cool:
     
  4. Alixana

    Alixana Definitely NOT a sonogram

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    I would never do that .. ever. I'm too busy planning how to replace international judges with eville Kanadian ones at Worlds .. hmm.. do I lock them in my basement for the week? Send them on an all expense paid trip to a warm beach somewhere? Suggestions anyone? ;)
     
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  5. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Polyjuice potion.
    btw - are you sure we should be discussing these plans on a public forum?
    Is this the way of the Kanadian Konspiracy?
     
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  6. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    I vote for the basement, where they will strapped to chairs and forced to watch a continuous loop of Sonia Radeva's 2009 EC short program. :p
     
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  7. Alixana

    Alixana Definitely NOT a sonogram

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    Absolutely .. no one will believe it of us Kanadians. Apparently we just knit and give everyone standing ovations. :D
     
  8. tkaug

    tkaug Member

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    She scored over 170 at Nebelhorn Trophy and won over Sotnikova and that was Phaneuf's silver medal at SA in 2004 for her. Without that win, her scores wouldn't have been that overscored at SC.
     
  9. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Really? Did the judges tell you that's why they gave her those scores?
     
  10. tkaug

    tkaug Member

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    Well, I mean, her scores would have been quite different(especially on PCS) if she hadn't had a good result at Nebelhorn Trophy or she hadn't competed there. That's fine because that's also a way skaters get good marks from judges, but to me she didn't look so much better at SC than she was at Nebelhorn Trophy. She got similar PCS to a world medalist Suzuki's which I don't agree with.
     
  11. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    But weren't her PCS scores similar at Nebelhorn and SC? Given you admit she looked a bit better at SC her scores seem to make sense.
     
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  12. tkaug

    tkaug Member

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    Hmmm, then maybe it was that Suzuki's PCS was undermarked...
     
  13. fsfan22

    fsfan22 Member

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    Her PCS were only about 3 points lower at Nebelhorn with a slightly sloppier skate. I think her marks are about right. I agree that Suzuki was under-marked in PCS.
     
  14. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    I forgot...which skating federation do you work for again?

    :p
     
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  15. Tracer

    Tracer New Member

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    I have to be amused by the comments made here about the scores. All I want to say is Kaetlyn did what 80% of the other skaters couldn't do and that was bring her game to the grand prix. One of the reasons why I have so many problems taking the ladies seriously is the complete mess that happenned at Skate Canada. How many ladies wilted under pressure and the amount of falls we witnessed is hard to phantom. Most of these ladies don't even have a triple axel in their long programs, they shouldn't be falling like this.

    I was disappointed to say the least, as for Kaetlyn she in her first grand prix brought her game face and did two stellar programs. Its not Kaetlyn's fault that everyone else had their miscues, nor is it her fault that Elene who was ahead of her crashed her long program. She did her best and on that day, it was better then anyone elses. Give her credit and try to give her some support since its not everyday we see a 16yr old actually perform. We didn't see that with the Russians or sadly Gracie Gold who I was really rooting for to have a good skate.
     
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  16. tkaug

    tkaug Member

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    Do I need to be a member of a skating federation to have my opinion here?
    Is this forum only for people of skating federations?
     
  17. KatieC

    KatieC Going in circles

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    Yup. Or part of the eville, widespread Kanadian Konspiracy. :hat1:
     
  18. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Go Tracer :cheer:

    (Though I'm sure you mean fathom, not phantom ;) )
     
  19. Tracer

    Tracer New Member

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    Hmm... I could correct that error, but I choose not too :)
     
  20. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well, the more I watch the two, the more I think the judges got it right. In normal circumstances, Suzuki deserves higher PCS than Osmond, but on the night Osmond was on fire whereas Suzuki was a little tentative. She was not the usual sure-footed, flowy Suzuki. In contrast, Osmond's program looked very together but Suzuki's was a little dull and I was not impressed immediately the same way when she debuted her last long program.
     
  21. Tracer

    Tracer New Member

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    I'm going to add to this by maybe creating some intresting discussion. We know that each individual Grand Prix are controlled by their federations when it comes to inviting skaters to attend their events. Each of them have a limit to how many skaters can attend. So because we are already in our second grand prix, we are fairly deep in the season now so the only way Kaetlyn Osmond will get a second slot is if someone were to drop out and the federation of that nation awarded that slot to Kaetlyn. Hard to fanthom that any nation would want to do that now that Kaetlyn came out of nowhere to win Skate Canada. I don't think anyone had Kaetlyn on their radar to even podium, even Skate Canada couldn't be this optimistic. For a nation to give a slot to Kaetlyn would in essence threaten their own skater's chances at getting key grand prix points for the end of season final.

    There is already discussion elsewhere about Kaetlyn's chances and people are in agreement that they are very slim. I want to throw a wrench into that and say maybe its not as slim as everyone thinks it is. Skate Canada is a very smart organization, they out of all of the federations might be best as promoting their skaters and getting them in positions so they can succeed. Japan may have all the money, but Canada does have some sneakiness about them. (ok that wasn't so much a compliment but it is really!) Think about this, before Kaetlyn exploded onto the scene, Canada's best ladies skater was Amelie Lacoste. Chances of her medaling at her home grand prix was going to be slim, regardless of the home grown bonus for scoring. Not many people expected her to medal and Skate Canada knows this, but in this game, its all about politiking. And yes between Federations there are alot of give or take to help individual skaters get crucial grand prix points. Why else would we see a top Japanese skater in Aikiko Suzuki and an up an comer in Kanako Murakami be slotted in for the grand prix for Canada. For Canada giving Japan easy access to getting those points through their event would be a favor for the Japanese. The end results pretty much was expected with the exception of Kaetlyn's coming out of nowhere to take the gold. No one could of forseen this, but in the end, the Canadian grand prix was open for the japanese ladies to take. And both medaled improving their chances to make the final.

    Out of all the grand prix still available, I think for Kaetlyn, the NHK is probably her best bet to get her second grand prix if a skater drops out. Japan might not be too thrilled that Kaetlyn has already won this year, but for Canada, they scratched the Japanese skating federation's back, and for Japan, they might be forced to return the favor if a skater drops out and Canada comes forth with a submission with Kaetlyn's name on it.
     
  22. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that Kaetlyn will get a second GP and don't think it matters much. A skater's window of opportunity (so to speak) to make a splash or rise quickly up the ranks is usually very small. So many times we've seen that window open and close quickly - Alissa's two GP wins some years ago immediately come to mind, or Abbot's GP final win. Some skaters lose that window and then come back to find another (ladies who lose their jumps when they grow and then overcome it are a case in point). It takes time to prove that a great skate or a win wasn't just a flash in the pan scenario. M & M/T (Moore Towers) in Canada come to mind, they had a great GP season last year, but will they come back strong this season?

    All that said, I'm really impressed with Kaetlyn. I can't remember when I've been so excited by a Canadian lady. Rochette never had this effect on me, although I did come to respect her.

    I thought Kaetlyn's win was well deserved, though second place in the free was fair, and found her skating much more sophisticated than when she skated last year at Nationals. She's a natural performer, not to mention a gusty one, and a delightful, unaffected kid. I think it's fair to anticipate that she will be our Canadian ladies champion. It's even possible that she might finish top 12 and get us two spots for Sochi.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    She'd need a top 10 to earn two spots, but I think it's possible, even if Kim and Ando come back, since there can only be three Japanese and Russian Ladies from all of the strong ones.
     
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  24. fsfan22

    fsfan22 Member

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    ^^ this!

    Gotta love skating politics.
     
  25. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    The British commentators were puzzled by Osmond's long program score and continued to "scratch their heads" about it for sometime after the scores came up. One commented that Akiku might justifiably be aggrieved at the final out come.

    My own view is that Osmond was overscored on PCS, especially IN. Anyone will have to admit that she is quite promising, and it will be interesting to see how she will handle the increasing expectations and pressure. This kind of scenario quite often ends up disappointing. In recent history, I recall how Gold was hyped as the new "golden" girl (Gold is gold was one headline) , but her

    story certainly has not played out that way thus far.
     
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, yes, skating politics ... Personally, I'm more interested in the skaters than the politics, but sure neither federations nor coaches can ignore the politics factor.

    As far as NHK, you don't think Nagasu will factor in for consideration ahead of Kaetlyn, should "someone" (maybe Alissa C perhaps) drop out and Canadian fed decides to put Kaetlyn forward? Probably Kaetlyn's coaches are more focused on preparing her for Canadian Nats and possible Worlds than worrying about her making another splash on the GP, making the final and not faring as well.
     
  27. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    I do agree that time will tell in terms of how far KO will go. Many young skaters can do well with no pressure but then when the pressure hits can they maintain the forward momentum? A few years back I brought this up when Brezina was 4th @ worlds. Has been backwards since although he's clearly talented.

    There are some differences here though. And it's in the head. So many skaters are headcases which means they will be up and down regularly (e.g. Czisny, Abbott and most Canadian skaters). There have been so few Canadian entries in any discipline who have had to 'learn' to compete (and perform). The few who come to mind are Stojko, Browning and V/M. I'm sure there are others but it's a lot of work to figure out who they are. KO is one of them which bodes very well for the future. She just needs to pass the test of skating well with expectations -- which will be the period from worlds this coming year through the end of next year. If she survives then, people, look out. We'll have a star on our hands.

    As for MT/M they have been very consistent (I don't mean fully clean...but close enough) except for the LP at nationals last year. I'm very sure that will be a one-off and you'll see them challenge D/R for the national title.

    I realize it's hard to advocate 7s for some PCS marks for a 16 year old. But I'm sorry, questioning KO's IN score is laughable. She projects to the audience -- even flirts with them, she uses every note when she skates and she has clear engagement of her entire body (esp her head and face) in the music and choreo. No one else at SC could say that except Suzuki and to an extent Murakami. Plus she had many many nuanced highlights to the music using variety of movements and positions. I'd be curious to understand where you think she was inferior using the rulebook as your guide. Get yourselves mentally prepared because I'm expecting to see 8s by this time next year.
     
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  28. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    PS I will admit I want Suzuki to win worlds and she's by far my favorite Japanese lady. She skates with effortless speed and attack which is intoxicating, especially live. But if you want to you can start picking apart her SS to see where she's leaving points in the table. #1 you want to talk about bent-over stroking, here's your poster child. #2 in her LP when she's skating clockwise she's backwards, but when she's counter-clockwise, she's forwards, which means she's almost always on an inside edge between elements. Most Canadian skaters like Kaetlyn are taught and choreographed to demonstrate multi directional skating on one foot using all edges. That's a huge huge part of the SS mark.

    Net net if we all started looking more closely like the judges have to, we'll find that what seems so obvious at first becomes a little less clear.
     
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  29. Tracer

    Tracer New Member

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    Skate Canada has already stated through an interview conducted by PJ Kwong that they are looking at getting her another grand prix event if a spot opens up, which is why I put this out for everyone to chew on.

    This is the interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDos1zMSIVE&feature=plcp
     
  30. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    What I love about Osmond is how she is able to skate in the moment. Her choreography, though detailed, has a fresh and spontaneous quality (as if she is responding to the music for the first time). So many other skaters look like they are constantly thinking through their programs, losing that immediate connection to the choreography and with the audience.