Shpilband/Zoueva Split Aftermath: What Happens Next?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    Perhaps you are right. My mistake.
     
  2. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Coated specialized in blade skills and compulsory dances. Shpliband's forte as a technical coach is point-getting elements, and until the judges scores reflect lack of line, toe-point, turnout, finish, unison, and ease of the blade, then the Shpilband brand of technique will be more important than the Coated brand of techniqu
     
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I mis-used the term "developmental" coach: I didn't mean teaching young children the basics but taking preteens and young teenagers and growing them up to the top senior level.

    If he gets unhappy about skaters making the same mistakes, no wonder he becomes uninterested when they peak: incremental improvement at that level is difficult and takes a great deal of effort, plus any short-cuts or habits have to be undone, which at that level is a great risk.
     
  4. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the Shibs isn't that they are siblings, or not being voidy enough or whatever, it's the simple fact that they don't generate the power per push of the blade that any other team in the top 10 can.

    Yes, the lack of any original choreography doesn't help, but it doesn't really matter what style of program they do, it just won't have the same impact with their SS.

    And the Kerrs were consistently overmarked if anything. :p
     
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    From what I've seen of them live, boy Shib has as smooth and efficient blades as anyone competing now. Until I saw them live for the first time, at SA in Portland IIRC, I was meh about them from video and didn't understand what the hype was about.
     
  6. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    As others have noted, it's only limiting if you make it limiting. The Kerrs, in addition to being siblings, also have very little height difference between them and got into ice dance relatively late - yet they managed to come up with plenty of creative ideas for programs. Having interesting programs allowed them to succeed beyond what a team with their technical ability normally would have.

    The problem is more that Marina and Igor couldn't really figure out what to do with a sibling team, and I hope the Shibs will eventually find someone who can.
     
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  7. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    ITA. One has to see the Shibs live. They have gorgeous blade control and are usually smooth as silk.
     
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think they have the best blades in Canton.
     
  9. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Maia? :eek:
     
  10. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    The Shibs are amazing technicians and skaters, indeed far better technicians than "interpreters" at this point. Their speed, ice coverage and edges are all of superior quality, so I am rather confused by your assessment of power as their weakness.
     
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  11. Anjelica

    Anjelica Well-Known Member

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    Yes but Liz Coates' leaving had nothing to do with Silverstein and Pekarek being 'no more'
     
  12. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Who did choreo for Silverstein and Pekarek?

    And i think H-D were close to the Shibs at WCh. And they are only 1 year together.
     
  13. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen both teams live?
     
  14. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that it did. I meant that Liz Coates was there the entire time S/P worked with Igor.
     
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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  16. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    This is main question for me - i love this FD.
     
  17. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes. In Nice. And i saw Shibs in Moscow at WCh.Maybe they have better ice coverage and blades at Nationals?
    And i was talking about points.
     
  18. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    Paul McIntosh developed Virtue & Moir and Andrew Poje. Their strong technical basics, edge quality, unison and partnering skills are all to his credit. Similarly, McIntosh coached Andrew Poje from an early age until he teamed with Kaitlyn Weaver and moved to Detroit.

    I always thought that Igor's teams were technically weak, especially in the CD's, and this is one area that really improved since he teamed with Zueva.
     
  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing is Tshaikovskay in interview talked Marina didnt like CDs and thats why Zoueva-Vitman team didnt had good results.
     
  20. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, how bad were they before?

    I thought improvements were mainly due to the old guard retiring.
     
  21. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Then it must not come across on television the way it does live.
     
  22. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I think Shibutanis come across exactly the same way live as they do on TV. :p

    And :lol: about them having the best blades in Canton. That's quite an insult to Virtue/Moir and Davis/White (not to mention most of the teams in the Top 10).

    Hubbell/Donohue should have finished ahead of them at Worlds.
     
  23. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    L&T were very slow and their CD's always got them off to a bad start. Similarly B&A were weak in the CD's compared to the European teams. Linichuk greatly improved their speed, basic stroking and blade precision.
     
  24. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    This is one team that i thought would have really been to American ice dance what Belbin Agosto ended up being.
     
  25. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

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    I don't think Igor and Adrienne are married.
     
  26. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Linuchuk is a great technician. I noticed that they also had better lifts after they went to her. But she have them some god awful programs
     
  27. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know the breakdown of Linichuk/Karponosov, as in who does what? My impression was that Karponosov was the technician and compulsory dances were his focus, and that Linichuk was the choreographer...and technician?
     
  28. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Tanith mentioned that Linichuk made her gain weight so that she carry her own weight better in lifts.
     
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Jayne Torvill didn't have Maia Usova's blades either, but her competitive record was a whole lot stronger with much less politiks behind her. Nor did Klimova, and I loved Klimova.

    Setting aside stylistic preferences, it's really not that unusual for someone down hierarchy to have a better skill than the teams at the top, and "better" doesn't mean the gap is great. Lanotte, for example, has had stronger skating skills than many of the men above him at various Worlds. Virtue/Moir, for example, exceed the Shibutanis in just about every other way, and no matter how voidy, interesting, or diva-like Pechalat, Bobrova, Weaver, Hubbell, or Capellini might be, or how much better their performance quality is or their range, I don't think their skating skills match Maia Shibutani's. (I've never seen Ilinyk live, and I think the top men are stronger and more evenly matched than the top ten female ice dancers on the whole.)

    Possibly: I wasn't there. The Shibs had a horrible outing for them. M/H weren't close at 4C's, which I did see, and that nearly 30-point gap reflected what was on ice. I don't think M/H at their best are close to S/S at their best, but that could change, especially if Zoueva remains as unimaginative as she has in creating programs for them, and since H/D are a new team, vs. one that's been together for years, their potential improvement could be greater.
     
  30. Twizzler

    Twizzler Well-Known Member

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    I have NEVER known Natalia to tell someone to gain weight. EVER. Get stronger and increase muscle, maybe.