Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 12, 2012.
Perhaps you are right. My mistake.
Coated specialized in blade skills and compulsory dances. Shpliband's forte as a technical coach is point-getting elements, and until the judges scores reflect lack of line, toe-point, turnout, finish, unison, and ease of the blade, then the Shpilband brand of technique will be more important than the Coated brand of techniqu
I mis-used the term "developmental" coach: I didn't mean teaching young children the basics but taking preteens and young teenagers and growing them up to the top senior level.
If he gets unhappy about skaters making the same mistakes, no wonder he becomes uninterested when they peak: incremental improvement at that level is difficult and takes a great deal of effort, plus any short-cuts or habits have to be undone, which at that level is a great risk.
The problem with the Shibs isn't that they are siblings, or not being voidy enough or whatever, it's the simple fact that they don't generate the power per push of the blade that any other team in the top 10 can.
Yes, the lack of any original choreography doesn't help, but it doesn't really matter what style of program they do, it just won't have the same impact with their SS.
And the Kerrs were consistently overmarked if anything.
From what I've seen of them live, boy Shib has as smooth and efficient blades as anyone competing now. Until I saw them live for the first time, at SA in Portland IIRC, I was meh about them from video and didn't understand what the hype was about.
As others have noted, it's only limiting if you make it limiting. The Kerrs, in addition to being siblings, also have very little height difference between them and got into ice dance relatively late - yet they managed to come up with plenty of creative ideas for programs. Having interesting programs allowed them to succeed beyond what a team with their technical ability normally would have.
The problem is more that Marina and Igor couldn't really figure out what to do with a sibling team, and I hope the Shibs will eventually find someone who can.
ITA. One has to see the Shibs live. They have gorgeous blade control and are usually smooth as silk.
I think they have the best blades in Canton.
The Shibs are amazing technicians and skaters, indeed far better technicians than "interpreters" at this point. Their speed, ice coverage and edges are all of superior quality, so I am rather confused by your assessment of power as their weakness.
Yes but Liz Coates' leaving had nothing to do with Silverstein and Pekarek being 'no more'
Who did choreo for Silverstein and Pekarek?
And i think H-D were close to the Shibs at WCh. And they are only 1 year together.
Have you seen both teams live?
I didn't say that it did. I meant that Liz Coates was there the entire time S/P worked with Igor.
Didn't Shpilband choreograph Silverstein/Pekarek's memorable "Great Expectations" FD? Here's their performance from 2000 Four Continents (they won the bronze): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FEjEvV-gX0
This is main question for me - i love this FD.
Yes. In Nice. And i saw Shibs in Moscow at WCh.Maybe they have better ice coverage and blades at Nationals?
And i was talking about points.
Paul McIntosh developed Virtue & Moir and Andrew Poje. Their strong technical basics, edge quality, unison and partnering skills are all to his credit. Similarly, McIntosh coached Andrew Poje from an early age until he teamed with Kaitlyn Weaver and moved to Detroit.
I always thought that Igor's teams were technically weak, especially in the CD's, and this is one area that really improved since he teamed with Zueva.
The funny thing is Tshaikovskay in interview talked Marina didnt like CDs and thats why Zoueva-Vitman team didnt had good results.
Wow, how bad were they before?
I thought improvements were mainly due to the old guard retiring.
Then it must not come across on television the way it does live.
I think Shibutanis come across exactly the same way live as they do on TV.
And about them having the best blades in Canton. That's quite an insult to Virtue/Moir and Davis/White (not to mention most of the teams in the Top 10).
Hubbell/Donohue should have finished ahead of them at Worlds.
L&T were very slow and their CD's always got them off to a bad start. Similarly B&A were weak in the CD's compared to the European teams. Linichuk greatly improved their speed, basic stroking and blade precision.
This is one team that i thought would have really been to American ice dance what Belbin Agosto ended up being.
I don't think Igor and Adrienne are married.
Linuchuk is a great technician. I noticed that they also had better lifts after they went to her. But she have them some god awful programs
Does anyone know the breakdown of Linichuk/Karponosov, as in who does what? My impression was that Karponosov was the technician and compulsory dances were his focus, and that Linichuk was the choreographer...and technician?
Tanith mentioned that Linichuk made her gain weight so that she carry her own weight better in lifts.
Jayne Torvill didn't have Maia Usova's blades either, but her competitive record was a whole lot stronger with much less politiks behind her. Nor did Klimova, and I loved Klimova.
Setting aside stylistic preferences, it's really not that unusual for someone down hierarchy to have a better skill than the teams at the top, and "better" doesn't mean the gap is great. Lanotte, for example, has had stronger skating skills than many of the men above him at various Worlds. Virtue/Moir, for example, exceed the Shibutanis in just about every other way, and no matter how voidy, interesting, or diva-like Pechalat, Bobrova, Weaver, Hubbell, or Capellini might be, or how much better their performance quality is or their range, I don't think their skating skills match Maia Shibutani's. (I've never seen Ilinyk live, and I think the top men are stronger and more evenly matched than the top ten female ice dancers on the whole.)
Possibly: I wasn't there. The Shibs had a horrible outing for them. M/H weren't close at 4C's, which I did see, and that nearly 30-point gap reflected what was on ice. I don't think M/H at their best are close to S/S at their best, but that could change, especially if Zoueva remains as unimaginative as she has in creating programs for them, and since H/D are a new team, vs. one that's been together for years, their potential improvement could be greater.
I have NEVER known Natalia to tell someone to gain weight. EVER. Get stronger and increase muscle, maybe.