Should team competitions be the Olympic sport?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by let`s talk, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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    Yes or No?

    After the meeting with Chiquanta, the president of the Russian Olympic Committee Alexandr Zhukov said that FS team competitions might be the Olympic sport in Sochi for the first time. The list of new sports for Sochi will be announced after the IOC General Assembly in Acapulko 22-28 October. The FS team competition is supposed to be held for one day, each country has one skater/pair in each 4 discipline: men, women, pair and ice-dance. (from news.sportbox.ru, October 15th)

    I personally don't see it as a realistic project. The pressure and tiredness of leaders are too high during the OG. I doubt the leaders will be actully able to compete one more day after the event in their discipline. On the other hand the countries could send the "second team" skaters who couldn't have qualified for the main team. And the audience will see newbabies and newbabies will have a chance to challenge a big internation event.
  2. JJH

    JJH Well-Known Member

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    Why do the powers-that-be want this? What's the agenda?
  3. soogar

    soogar New Member

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    I'd rather see synchronized skating as a team sport in the games.
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  4. Skate Talker

    Skate Talker Well-Known Member

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    Phew - I originally thought the proposal was to replace individual with team - got very upset as that is a totally ludicrous idea. Adding team comp is not a bad idea out of hand. I think it is time that figure skating got a chance for more than 4 sets of medals since it is such a high profile Olympic sport. After all gymnastics has a whole plethora of them with some competitors having a shot at a whole handful of gold medals if they are good enough. I don't think it would be too arduous for the skaters to do just their free programs one more time provided they reschedule the other comps so that there is at least a day or two of no comp before the team event.

    The main problem I see at the moment is the small number of countries that could really field a top-level team in all disciplines. Even the Japan Open which has no pairs or dance has to group Europe as a team and North America as a team to have half a chance at matching the Japanese singles teams. For all 4 disciplines what countries beside Russia, USA and Canada could even put together a decent team at the moment.

    Of course if this pushes other countries into better development of skaters in all disciplines that would be great. Otherwise we are looking at a second rate comp imho.

    Hmm - I will think on this a bit more.
  5. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Italy?

    I'm not sure if I like the idea.
  6. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    I'd LOVE for this to happen!

    1) More Olympic skating routines! what fan wouldn't want that?!?
    2) More chances for skaters to win medals! and more chances for multiple skaters in the same discipline to win the Olympic gold. The skaters would like it, and so would us the fans!
    3) It actually may take some of the pressure off, instead of it being a 1-shot deal, at the back of skaters' heads they'll know there's another chance
    4) Countries and federations will have an insentive to fully develop their skating programs across all disciplines *cough China and Japan cough*
    5) So many skaters in so many sports in both the summer and winter Olympics have multiple competitions with multiple chances for gold, if they can cope with it I'm sure our skaters will too.

    I really hope it's happens!
  7. Skate Talker

    Skate Talker Well-Known Member

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    Now there is a logical idea - so obviously they won't consider it :rolleyes:

    Actually I wonder if the numbers of skaters per team wouldn't be a bit more budget than they want to consider? Perhaps if they were to change the synchro sport to much smaller teams (ack) it would be considered. They probably thought it would be cheap to add this team concept as many of the skaters could already be entered in the individual events and still get more mileage out of the glamour sport of the Winter games?
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Yes.
  9. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    If the skaters are just repeating the same free skates, would it really get much in terms of ratings? I know gymnasts repeat routines, but without the effect of music and costuming, I doubt that it seems as repetitive to the casual once-every-four-years viewer as a repetitive skating comp might.

    I have thought for a long time that it seems unfair that skaters have one shot at a medal at the Olympics when so many other sports are structured with multiple chances. But I'm not sure how realistic adding more competition is for them, either.
  10. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Come Sochi, I can at least see Japan, China, Italy, France, Germany fielding a decent team if the federations focus on supporting their skaters.

    And I think for this to work, countries will have to qualify for the event, possibly 8-10 countries tops
  11. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Spin Alissa Spin!!!

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    I've always liked the idea of a team competition at the Olympics. But as others have said, would there be enough viable candidates? And can a country have more than one team? Russia, USA and Canada could probably fill 3 teams each with great skaters.
  12. maija

    maija Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
  13. nro

    nro New Member

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    double post, sorry
  14. nro

    nro New Member

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    I agree with those above who think skaters should get more than one chance at a medal. I think a team competition is something to consider but the ISU should also consider giving separate medals for the short and long program, in addition to the "overall" result.
  15. ChibiChibi

    ChibiChibi Active Member

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    I agree 100%!!
  16. Erica Lee

    Erica Lee New Member

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    Yup, I'll agree with those of you that have already said it... if they want a team event, I'd much rather see synchro.
  17. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    That would be ideal for the sport, but it would mean enormous expense for the organizers. The number of synchro competitors would probably equal or exceed the total of the other four disciplines.

    If a team competition were held, however, the teams will be much smaller and we can assume most of the competitors will already be at the Olympics for the individual competitions.
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  18. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Its a nice idea.. but the format will have to be very well thought..

    Maybe Im alone in this but I would prefer a team competition for each category separated rather than that mess of a combo called World Team Trophy that is having dancers and singles skaters adding up points in the same event. :rolleyes:. Perhaps at first it can only be done in singles since for Pairs and Dance only 3 or 4 countries in the world have enough depth.

    For example, a team competition of lets say 3 skaters per team, with 8 nations competing. Only the LP will be skated like in Japan Open. Thats 24 programs, the same of a regular LP event. top skaters from each country dont necesarily have to take part because they will be fighting for the gold in singles. This way we will have many talented enough to be in the olympics skaters competing there instead of leaving them at home and suffer for them:(..

    Imagine what would have been in Vancouver : Ahsley, Sasha and Czisny against Yukari, Fumie and Akiko (Suzuki wasn´t a contender for the podium in singles so she could had competed in both events)..

    Ok I´ll stop daydreaming:D
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2010
  19. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I just don't think it's necessary or helpful to do this. One, it's going to be incredibly expensive. Think about all of the extra athletes who'd need lodging and whatnot for their time in Sochi. Second, doesn't bringing in more skaters take away some of the "specialness" (so to speak) of actually qualifying for the Olympics? It's like having a B-team, which no other sport I can think of has.

    I think there's been some discussion of something similar for the YOG in 2012, but the proposal was a little different and it made no sense to me. :/ Not sure what the deal will be there.

    I would LOVE to see synchro at the Olympics, but it would also be logistically difficult.
  20. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Hell to the no.
    Since the ISU hasn't had much success running its own team event - and IIRC has encountered some of the problems noted above, like tired skaters not wanting to add another event to their schedules, a limited number of countries/areas with enough skaters to be competitive, etc. - I have no idea why adding a team event to the Olympics is going to make those problems magically go away.

    And sorry, but the sport of international skating has managed to survive for more than 100+ years with the vast majority of skaters only getting one medal per competition. I don't find the "but athletes in other sports can get more than one medal" to be a compelling argument at all. I would even dare to say that the saintly aura of the Olympic Gold Medal in skating would be diluted if skaters were able to win more than one medal.
  21. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I would rather they begin by giving medals to the top three in the short and free program as well as an overall winner. Just like the ISU does.
  22. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    You can believe that this Olympic 'Team competition' would not be talked about and be under consideration without the knowledge and likely favorable consideration by the IOC. I think it will be approved for Sochi or the following winter games.

    I think the IOC wants to limit any increase in the number of athletes contributing to such a new event and would likely want national teams made up of skaters already qualified to contend for individual medals at the games - not add a second tier of skaters. Olympic movement is constructed to allow only those nation's athletes who qualify for the games. A new construt would have to be instituted to qualify separate skaters for the team. Using skaters already qualified for the four disciplines does not impact costs.

    In a perfect world the natural team competition at the Olympics would be Synchronized Team Skating. But as previously mentioned 8 to 10 Synchro Teams of anywhere from 12 to 20 members would mean 96 to 200 additional athletes to be housed, fed, travel paid for, etc. I don't foresee this happening any time soon. But I wish it would. Adding Synchro is my first choice.
  23. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, yes, yes!! I'd love to see team competition at the Olympics.
  24. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I think the IOC should go through with whatever plan they had for YOG 2012 in terms of teams, see how it fares, and THEN decide whether or not to implement team competitions in 2018.
  25. Erica Lee

    Erica Lee New Member

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    I agree synchro is a huge cost and that's probably a huge obstacle ... but figure skating is one of the sports at the Olys that brings in the most money... you'd think that would help even things out in the end. Unfortunately this proposed team event only seems profit-driven and not sport or athlete-centered.

    I just don't see the point in specifically creating an event for the Olympic Games that is not already a popular format at the international/national/local level (bottom-up). To me, that's not very "Olympic"... has any other sport event been a top-down Olympic creation?
  26. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    But there might be more :bribe: in this.:(
  27. grandma

    grandma New Member

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    I would like to have team competitions at the Olympics just as in many other sports
  28. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    China? All China has is pairs and don't you think that's a little too little to make a team?

    Obviously, USA, Canada and Russia would rule the event. If Japan works on their pairs and dance teams, which apparently they have been doing lately, they can count too. I wouldn't top France - they have some great male skaters, but it feels like the good old school of French dance is slowly ending by P/B wasting their French potential with a Russian coach (sorry), their best pair has split and they do not have any top females. I think Italy could have a chance, though.

    As for the event itself, I would love it, but I don't think the skaters would. Adding synchronized skating seems a better idea, yet more expensive, but look how many young girls' dreams could come true this way.
  29. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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    One country can present only one team. But the team has to have all four disciplines. In Vancouver only five countries could present participants in all four discipline: Russia, USA, Canada, Germany and Italy. If the team competition comes true, I am sure some countries will be able to collect the team (China, Japan, France?).
  30. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I think team skaters are very athletic, but I think the format of the competition would draw questions about its status as a sport rather than an exhibition . . . questions that could take down ice dance with it.
  31. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    mia joy don't know why you think China has only pairs. China's dance teams are easily as good as Japan's (only) pair team, and Japan's (only) dance team. And they have at least one male and female in singles currently working their way up. China could field a team. So could Japan, Italy, France, Germany (I think the top single skaters in Germany are Liebers and Dytrt - going out on a limb here to say China's singles are about the same level ? Isn't Song Gao Chinese?).

    I would love to see this happen. I don't care if it's money driven or not (tho I don't necessarily believe it is - are sponsors or TV broadcasters suddenly going to pay the IOC more because there's an extra skating competition?)

    I love the idea of more medal opportunities for skaters. Just look at the gymnasts - medals for each apparatus, medals for individual all-around, and medals for teams. I'd love to see similar kinds of opportunities for skaters.

    Also don't buy the line that the skaters will be too tired. Obviously they'd need a day or 2 to regroup after the individual competitions, but heck if gymnasts can do it so can skaters. Last time I checked they're trained athletes. I imagine they'll all find a way to adjust to an extra day of competition.

    China France Italy Germany Japan US Canada Russia am I missing anyone.

    Yes of course it would be dominated by Russia US Canada, but so what - several Olympic competitions are dominated by the top countries (women's hockey anyone?) but that doesn't stop it from being good competition and fun to watch, while giving those countries not in the top 3 incentive to develop their programs.

    I also like the idea of medals for the short programs - a bit like gymnastics individual apparatus medals. Some gymnasts are just better at one piece of apparatus than they are on the others. Well some skaters are "short program" skaters, and some always skate a better long, so let them get a medal for their specialty like the gymnasts do.

    :cheer2: Bring it on I say :cheer2:
  32. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

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    Israel :lol:

    I don't really understand what "team competition" is, but if it means that the skaters have to skate another set of same/different programs, I think it's a stupid idea.

    Perhaps another set of medals could have been awarded based on the combined result in the 4 disciplines, if they're so eager to have another medal :lol:
  33. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    So it's a stupid idea that gymnasts do their same routines over again in the team event that they did in the individual event? Why's that different for FS? Women's gymnastics floor routines are choreographed to music. No-one has a problem with them repeating the same routine for the team event. And also a skater or pair-dance team may have an off performance in the individual event so get a second chance to do better in the team event. Happens in gymnastics a lot.

    (Presumably the skaters would do the same routines. I think it would be a bit much to expect them to have 2 different programs for the team event).
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  34. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    I think the World Team Trophy that the ISU started in 2009 was a test for this concept. It would probably be run similarly. The skaters skated their season's programs. The countries that participated were the top finishing countries of the season. It would probably be the same skaters that are already there.
  35. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    And how successful has that been, outside of the core audience of devoted skating fans? I doubt the Olympics will want to add an event that can't even get a major-network broadcast in North America.

    The tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist in me says that the team-event idea is just another way to try and get Plushy another OGM, especially in his home country, but maybe that's the tinfoil talking.
  36. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Bit to early to say yet if it's a successful idea or not isn't it since it's only been held once. Besides how successful is any FS competition outside of a core audience of devoted skating fans? Oh right - less successful than it used to be in the US, much more successful than it used to be in Korea, holding steady in Japan, and probably most of Europe, growing in recognition in China, etc etc etc. And if you're measuring success by how much money ISU got from the Japanese TV broadcaster to air WTT, and then how much money the TV broadcaster received from ad revenues aired during WTT - I'm guessing pretty successful, though I don't really know. Anybody?

    IOC already has it's system in place to get sponsors and sell TV rights. I can't imagine the addition or not of one more skating competition is really going to have a major impact on that.
  37. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    IIRC the TV ratings for the most recent Summer and Winter Olympics were down from the previous events....so if the IOC has reason to be concerned about having a marketable TV package, they might not want to add on more events that aren't proven ratings draws.
  38. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I hope this happens! More opportunities for these skaters to win medals is a great thing!

    I can't see fatigue being a major issue- It's only one extra day of competition. It's no more exerting than having to skate in a qualifying round at Worlds. If you offered the skaters an additional opportunity to win an Olympic medal/compete on Olympic ice, I think many of them would absolutely be in favor of it. I would just hope the Team competition comes after the Individual events.

    They will just be different types of medals, just as it's different to win a Team medal vs. winning an Individual All Around medal in gymnastics.

    Figure skating is the most popular Winter Olympic sport in the US. Instead of compulsory dance, NBC will get to televise a Team competition. I think it would be a great success in terms of ratings!
  39. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    As stjeaskategym pointed out, it's not really adding more in terms of the number of days of FS competition during the Olys - it essentially replaces the CD (which we all know is a huge ratings draw.............:lol:). I would guess a team comp will attract a bigger audience than the CD.
  40. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    But what if the gold medalists in the 4 disciplines pull out of the team competition? This year the winners of mens and pairs didn't go to worlds but the dance and ladies did.

    I think it could be interesting. I wonder if the tecnical difficulty would be the same. What if a gold medalits didnt do well in the team competition and was beaten by someone who lost to them. I guess that wouldn't mean much. They could use what people use about worlds that it was fatigue in winning the olympic gold that made them lose worlds.