Should Rachael Flatt & Mirai Nagasu now retire?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Jan 30, 2012.

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Should Rachael Flatt & Mirai Nagasu now retire?

Poll closed Feb 29, 2012.
  1. Rachael Flatt should retire

    73 vote(s)
    46.5%
  2. Mirai Nagasu should retire

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  3. They both should retire

    13 vote(s)
    8.3%
  4. Neither should retire

    59 vote(s)
    37.6%
  5. Don't know

    9 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    There has been a lot of talk about whether following U.S. Nationals, in which Flatt and Nagasu finished 6th & 7th respectively, they should now retire?

    I think both Flatt and Nagasu can still be successful should they wish to continue. However, there is some hard thinking for both of them to do. Rachael needs to finally find an answer as to how she is going to balance university with skating. Her U.S. Nationals performance was a clear improvement on her grand prix skates, and I think that she can use that as a platform from which to build. Hence, things seem to be going in the right direction. As for Mirai, she has so much inherent talent, that for her to just give up would be a total waste of it. At the moment, she just seems so disenchanted. Accordingly, she needs to work out what the underlying problems are, address them, and resolve them. At the very least, I think she needs to get rid of the crazy commute.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Flatt absolutely should retire and focus on college full time. Her career peak has already happened, her skating has already plateaued even putting in a full effort, and she is no longer a favorite of the USFSA. Her poor decision to skate at Worlds severely injured when there was a more than capable fill in, and her lackluster grand prix performances basically signal the end for her. The U.S has already had enough years of a trial run with her and gotten as much as they were ever going to in 2009 and 2010, and now with a growing abundance of other options building up she wont get near a World team again unless a train wreck of epic proportion occurs. If she stays on she will become another Fumie Suguri, only a decade younger, and that would be sad. Her very strong LP at Nationals is a good note to go out on.

    Nagasu is a tougher call. It really depends on her. It is not too late for her but she has to decide she is either going to give it 100% or it is indeed maybe time to move on. If her heart isnt it, if she isnt willing to put in the neccessary work, then there is no point. She needs to analyze if she wants a coaching change, what her plan of attack is going forward, and if she wants it badly enough or not.
  3. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    Only if they want to.

    Rachael's LP performance was my favorite from her ever, it had it's weaknesses but it didn't matter, for the first time since she's been around, it felt like she was skating for herself, there was genuine joy in her face, she was just skating for the love of it, and call me crazy, but there seemed to be a connection to the audience that she never had before. If Rachael still has love for the sport, then let her compete for as long as she wants.

    Mirai on the other hand seems to not be too into skating right now, maybe she has other things going on in her life, I don't know, but it seemed like her desire to do well just wasn't there. Maybe all she needs is a coaching change and a more stable training environment, maybe it's deeper than that, or perhaps it is time for her to hang her skates. I personally hope that she sticks around and finally lives up to her potential and talent because when that girl is on it's magic, but potential and talent can only do so much,she has to want it, and she has to work for it.
  4. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Nobody wants to be told when he/she should retire from anything. Each should continue to skate if they still have the love for skating and competing. It's up to them.
  5. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand the meaning of the question. Why were they picked to 'retire' because of the place they got at nationals? Does that mean everyone they beat should quit as well?
  6. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    No, why should they?
  7. DBZ

    DBZ Well-Known Member

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    Just from my own personal perspective, I think Rachael should retire. All things considered, I think she's had a very respectable career, but ultimately has maxed out her potential and growth as a competitive skater.

    To me, she has always been a pretty average skater--with good basics, yes, but nothing special or exceptional beyond that. The fact that she managed to win a National title and make an Olympic team was a testament more to her hard work and dedication than her talent IMO.

    Now that her work ethic and consistency are waning (her one and only strength), it makes little sense to me why she would continue, when it's clear she has other priorities much higher on her list than skating.

    If she truly enjoys skating and competing, however, by all means she should continue if she wants to. More power to her, I say.

    But it seems like an awful amount of time, money and energy spent to continue meandering in 5th-10th place finishes, which is where I see Rachael placing from now on unless she regains and commits herself 150% to skating again...and I just don't see that happening.

    But who knows, stranger things have happened in skating.

    As for Mirai, I do not think she should retire. Unlike Rachael, her potential has barely been tapped at this point, and it would be such a shame to see a truly exceptional skater retire before fulfilling any of it.
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    ITA with all you said.
  9. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    They should retire ONLY IF AND WHEN THEY WANT TO RETIRE.
  10. dlbarker

    dlbarker New Member

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    Silly silly question, a knowledge of the history of skating and of the untelevised skaters would help. Placing in the top 10 in the country should not be cause for any athlete to retire. Focusing on college and adult life might be a good reason. Many skaters continue skating and enjoying skating in the untelevised ranks of the national championships for a decade or more.
    julieann and (deleted member) like this.
  11. The Fly On The Wall

    The Fly On The Wall Active Member

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    ^This.

    And to those who continue harping on Rachael for skating injured at Worlds when a "more than capable alternate was available," after Mirai's performance last night, how can anyone claim that sending her last year would have made things any different? :shuffle:
  12. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    I kind of got the impression that last night was Rachael's goodbye skate, judging from her reaction.
  13. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    If that was the case, she wouldn't have been named an alternate for 4CC.
  14. The Fly On The Wall

    The Fly On The Wall Active Member

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    I had the same impression as well.
  15. Really

    Really No longer just a "well-known member" Yay!

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    I think they should whatever they want to do.
  16. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    ^I do too, I don't think anyone should be retiring the skaters for them. I just got the feeling that Rachael's long was, in her mind, her last performance (at least for the time being). I know she's been through a lot in the past year but I think there was more to her reaction than just relief. She doesn't usually get so emotional, and that, coupled with a few of her comments leading up to the competition, just gave me the feeling that she had planned it to be her swan song.
  17. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well, in 2010 and 2011, Nagasu improved from her Nationals skate at Olympics (2010) and 4CCs (2011).

    From 2009 to 2011, Flatt left her best at Nationals, and her Worlds performance was always worse.
  18. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Nothing was really at stake for Nagasu at 2010 Olympics or 2011 4CCs. Nobody expected her to bring home an Olympic medal or get Worlds spots for the US ladies. So naturally she skated well. When expectations for Mirai go up, like at 2010 Worlds, she crumbles.

    Look at Skate Canada. When everyone expected her to contend for a GPF spot, she bombs at that comp. The one week later, with virtually no chance for GPF, she grabs silver at COC.
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    :rolleyes:
  20. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    How many media outlets said Mirai or Rachael was expected to medal at the Olympics? Nobody put pressure on them to keep the US ladies tradition of medaling at the Olmpics alive.

    Would Mirai have been a better option at 2011 Worlds than Rachael? Sure but no sure thing.
  21. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    they should only retire if they want to. mirai has so much potential, and she is still quite young. i don't enjoy rachael's skating, but she really should be commended for being able to balance a respectable skating career with stanford.

    basically, i'm a michelle fan, and considering that she had to endure taunts calling her to retire for the entire second half of her career, i can only be sympathetic towards other skaters who face similar criticism, whether it's rachael or fumie suguri.

    basically, as long as they put the work in to be able to qualify at nationals...they have every right. and btw? i've always DETESTED the idea that older skaters should move on after a certain point to make room for the new girls. what a ridiculous notion! if they're good enough, they should step up to the plate!
  22. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I hate the idea that we should question whether or not they should retire.

    In either case, though, I legitimately wouldn't be shocked if Rachael was considering it at this point. I doubt it would be a new thought to her. Yes, she's a 4CC alternate, and I think that's because she doesn't want to do anything official yet. But I would be far from shocked if she DID retire.
  23. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    By the same token had Mirai performed at Worlds the way she did at 4CC's (or at the Olympics for that matter) she just might have helped earn those 3 spots back. We'll never know since she never got the chance to try.

    ^^^
    THIS!

    I echo your sentiment.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  24. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    THIS.

    When someone states that Skater X should retire, I think what's really being said is, "I don't like Skater X" or "Skater X isn't improving and I really don't want to have to watch anymore." Fair enough, I've felt the same way about certain skaters from time to time.

    But suggesting retirement is another issue. We really don't know what compels an elite athlete to do what they do and there are probably a number of reasons why someone would choose or not choose to retire. It's definitely a big decision for someone who has spent their life pursuing an admirable dream.
  25. The Fly On The Wall

    The Fly On The Wall Active Member

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    Well-said in both your posts. I know exactly what you were getting at.
  26. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

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    Yes, no offense, but what a stupid question.

    Even if they don't place in the top 10 for the rest of their careers, they shouldn't retire as long as they don't want to. Mirai is potentially the best in the US right now, and she's realized that potential to the extent that she's made it to the Olympics which is something the much older Alissa can't claim. I'm sure everyone was crowing for Alissa to throw in the towel years ago and look where she is now. As long as Mirai is committed to skating, she can place badly in the next couple of seasons and still end up rising to the top much like Alissa has.

    Even Rachael isn't a gone case, IMO. She hasn't been her consistent self lately because her training has been affected, but if she should ever get the sports + studies combo under control, she'll go back to being Reliable Rachael, I should think. Yes, I don't think she'll ever be World/Olympic champion just because of the kind of skater that she is, but then no one would be left skating if that criterion had to be met.
  27. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    If I were Rachael, I would probably retire after having a respectable last performance, a fantastic career as a national champion and Olympian, and a bright future ahead at a great university. But obviously it's Rachael's decision, and if she decides to continue, more power to her. If she does stop now, she can certainly look back on plenty of wonderful moments. :)
  28. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    You never know what happens. Figure skating especially is a sport where the most unexpected can happen.

    Prior to 1999 nobody believed Butyrskaya could ever be world champion, not even after her 1998 Euros win. She was past mid-20s when she won however. Her problems as far as becoming too nervous and as a result making mistakes remind me of Czisny nowadays and Kostner the past few years. But look at Kostner now! How many times have people said Kostner should stop, yet she won Grand Prix Final and Euros this season.

    Kwan has been told she was washed up and should retire countless times. I remember even as soon as 1997 people writing she had nothing left to offer to the sport, how wrong they were as she bounced back within the same season her troubles started, by Worlds '97 she was back on track.

    Many people were angry when Wylie was sent to Albertville saying he had had his time and, yet he went home with the silver.

    There are many examples of skaters who eventually made it, even when things looked negative before. One day everything came together for them and they proved themselves they had been right in staying in competitions and proved their critics wrong.

    This makes figure skating even more interesting.
  29. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Rachael and Mirai are having a difficult season, but they are both talented, and it's not as if US have a lot of other good skaters.
    I mean, if Alissa and Ashley can give 3 spots for 2013 Worlds, who knows who will be in the World team ? Mirai can.
    masofs and (deleted member) like this.
  30. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Word.

    All I can think of is Fumie Suguri. She didn't retire on a good note after posting her best Olympic and World finish in 2006 but instead went on to miss qualifying for Worlds year after year after year, all the whilst just looking for a decent performance for closure.

    Little did she know a decent performance never really came again. Finally this year she didn't even qualify for Nationals.
  31. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    The very first post that set up the thread read:-

    You will note that it is my view that neither should retire. However, that does not get away from the fact that some people have been saying that they should (as evidenced by the fact that around 60% in the poll at the time of writing have voted that one or other of them should retire) and the thread was a reaction to that. That doesn't make those 60% who have voted in favour stupid. Hence the question was asked as its a reflection of what people have been saying. Nevertheless, it is my hope that the option that neither of them should retire will win out and the more people that vote for that option and set out in the thread why they should not retire to persuade others to do likewise, the more likely it is that that option will win out.

    Nobody has stated that either of them should be forced to retire. The question was couched of terms of whether those voting believed it was advisable for them to retire given current circumstances if they were in their shoes. The decision as to whether either skater does or doesn't retire is for them and them alone. As stated, it is my view that they shouldn't retire and that it is still possible for them to turn things around and make the 2014 Olympics.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  32. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    Hey, I'm from England & we would kill to have Rachael OR Mirai skate for us !
    Do you know if they fancy coming to live in blighty for a couple of British passports?!
    I could have a word with the Queen the next time I go over for afternoon tea.
    Liz is skating mad & would be happy to help !
  33. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    If Rachael wants to skate a couple more seasons fine by me but if she carries on like Suguri it will be even more embarrassing since Rachael at her best wasn't as good as Suguri. But Rachael's days of contending for anything are done.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  34. roma

    roma New Member

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    Nope. Let them skate till they themselves want to call it quits. How many times have we seen skaters being put down because they had a couple of down seasons only to see them improve after? Mao, Caroline, Caro, Akiko to name a few...
  35. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    LOL... bad idea!

    I am from London too, and if we are to import anyone, I'd rather pick one of the Russian wonder babies please preferably JL (I doubt we will get to be so lucky). Although the thought of Mirai going on one of those UK university binge drinking parties did make me smile. She need to loosen up and find joy and spontaneity again some how. She has the talent, she just need to get it out there when it matters.

    Rachel on the other hand has fully realized her potential already and well done her. Time to give it a rest and focus on the next chapter in her life. Stanford student life should be amazing and should demand her full attention.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  36. olifaunt

    olifaunt New Member

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    Echoing the sentiment that neither should retire UNLESS that's what they want to do. Mirai still has buckets of talent. She just needs a change, whether it's in her coaching, her choreographer, her sports psychologist, whatever it takes to make her happy. Rachael isn't coming back from a broken leg anymore and she has more experience juggling school and skating. It's obvious that she still likes the sport enough to try jamming it into her schedule. I'd be quite happy to see them both around next year.
  37. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    ^This. Why should fans have any say in when an athlete should retire?! Mirai and Rachael will leave the sport when they get good and ready to. To be honest, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.
  38. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Maria was a late bloomer. Her international career basically started at 23, and she gradually got better for the next 3-4 years from there. The year she won Worlds she was actually the clear 2nd favorite in a weak transitional field so in theory it shouldnt be that surprising she won. She basically just waited out long enough for almost everyone to retire/decline/slump and then happened to peak at the exact right moment.


    As others have said it will be their decision what to do of course. I got the impression like many others in this thread from Rachels reaction after her very good Nationals LP that it was her finale and I will be surprised if she doesnt announce her retirement from amateur skating shortly. Wouldnt be surprised to see her do some shows on the side in coming years. Nagasu I have no idea what will do. If she retired it wouldnt surprise me, but if she continues it wouldnt either. I hope if she continues she does not continue as she was going about things this sesaon though.
  39. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    OT, but was Butyrskaya ever a top lady for the USSR? I don't remember her ever competing internationally prior to 1993 but due to her age, it's probable she was a respectable young Soviet teen skater on the USSR Nationals level amidst the likes of Lebedeva and Rachkova, or even in the era of Ivanova and Kondrashova in their later years ...
  40. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    She took bronze at the last soviet nationals.

    A lot of her bitterness seemed to revolve around the federation dumping her as a child as "unpromising" and thus she had to support herself coming up.