Should GPF be moved to after Worlds?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by haribobo, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    I'm noticing that a lot of the GPF skaters are kinda blowing it or withdrawing from their Nationals. Its pretty unfortunate to see so many top skaters really losing steam after the GP series and final- so many comps in a row really takes a toll. Would it be better to move the final so these skaters can focus on their Nationals and Euros/4CC properly?
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    No. Isn't Worlds more important than the GPF to the ISU and the majority of skaters?
  3. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any skaters dropping out just because the GPF was too taxing.
  4. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I definitely think Worlds is more important. But I don't think later has to = more important. GPF could be a nice relaxing April come-down comp for the Worlds skaters, some to redeem themselves or whatnot. But then there's World Team Trophy too which could complicate things. I dunno, just seems like December turns into burnout month for so many skaters. It's a bummer.
  5. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    No, Worlds is the real final - the "peak" toward which all skaters are building over the season. The GPF would be meaningless afterward.

    The GPF provides a motivator for serious participation in the fall's GP events, and in that sense it is useful to the ISU. If skaters anticipate making it to the GPF and are concerned about fatigue, they might need to limit themselves to two GP events, and forego Senior B's.
  6. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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  7. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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  8. Really

    Really No longer just a "well-known member" Yay!

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  9. mineko

    mineko New Member

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    Burn outs/withdrawals do not seem like an issue for North American skaters, whose nationals are set for mid-January (Canadian nationals) and late January (US nationals). So it's all a matter of scheduling - I've noticed that majority of European and Japanese nationals are held during the mid-late December.

    Trade-off is that European/Japanese skaters have plenty of time to prepare for European/4CC, whereas North American skaters, especially the US skaters have barely two weeks to prepare for 4CC.

    So again, it's all matter of scheduling.
  10. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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  11. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    No, it's good like this, with a first part, a break with Nationals, then Euros, Olys and Worlds.
    Maybe a team competition after Worlds was a good idea.
  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    No, but perhaps the whole GP / GPF can be moved back a little (by, say, 2 weeks?) so top skaters can have more rest between GPF and their own Nationals?
  13. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    If you move it back by 2 weeks, it will be over Christmas. I don't think that would be fair. I don't understand why in Russia plans their nationals over Christmas, although from my own selfish point of view I like it because at least we can watch it. :) Not sure if the skaters like it though! In Japan it is over Christmas too but as far as I know they don't celebrate christmas anyway because they are not Christian country.

    Actually, if you want to achieve more time between their nationals and GP events, you would have to either move the nationals to later (which may not be possible because there is some deadline for submitting names for Europeans) or move the whole GP evebnts including the final to earlier, which is also not possible because before GP events are junior GP events. And if you move the JPG events too, the whole season will be longer and the time between seasons shorter. Less time to rest.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Worlds is the biggest competition of the season, so it should be the final competition. I have seen skaters withdrawing from GPF for either health reasons or a family crisis like in Mao's case. Other than that, I think skaters really want to compete at GPF, and most would welcome more rest before their own nationals. Four CC may be a competition that needs to its schedule though. It's just too close to worlds.
  15. fan

    fan Active Member

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    Russian orthodox Christmas is later in the year - they don't have christmas at this time.
  16. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

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    No, in the case that it could be taking place after worlds, then many of the top skaters would end up withdrawing of the event

    The GPrix and GPF are the first half of the season to debut programs, get feedback, make adjustments towards the ´real deal´ that is nationals-europeans-4cc-worlds
  17. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

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    No, in the case that it could be taking place after worlds, then many of the top skaters would end up withdrawing of the event

    The GPrix and GPF are the first half of the season to debut programs, get feedback, make adjustments towards the ´real deal´ that is nationals-europeans-4cc-worlds
  18. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    No but I do think US Nationals should be moved... lol
  19. cygnus

    cygnus Liberal Furry

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    No. Remember when the GPF was in February/March and many skaters used to withdraw because it was too close to Worlds/4ccs/Euros. And it made little sense having it then. After Worlds, which is the "climax" of a non-Olympic year it would be silly. That's when they go on tours/take a break etc.

    It makes logical sense to have the fall as the GP season, with the GPF as the final event. Then the Nationals in December/January, then the "continental" championships, then Worlds. It's a logical buildup to the biggest competition.
  20. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    Look closer.


    I don't think it's all about scheduling.

    If a skater has a reason to show up at nationals (say: the federation won't be too inclined on looking the other way, the athlete has to prove himself/herself, money is at stake), the skater shows up whatever the schedule is.
    Infact, Japanese nationals are always full roster, even though japanese skaters are often in the GPF.

    That said: having too many events and too little time to rest and train isn't going to keep skaters healthy, nor is going to improve figure skating as a sport.

    ISU should see what their ultimate goal is: whether to have fans entartained pratically all year long, or fewer events and higher skating quality.
  21. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    or you could just give examples...:blah:
  22. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:

    I don't think so, you name them.

    Name the "top skaters" who appear as if they are "losing steam" after the GP series and/or GPF so much that they can't perform at a their Nationals?

    I certainly haven't heard that there is some sort of epidemic that would cause they whole fall skating schedule to be changed.
  23. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I know only about a few.
    Brezina - performed at nationals but his FS was a mess.
    Top two pairs were off Russian nationals (though it is because of injury).
    Somewhere I read that Morozov recommended Leonova not to do the nationals and rest instead. She did compete though.
    Tuktamysheva mentioned in the interview that it was quite difficult for her, that she felt quite tired. (and finished lower than it was expected.)

    I am wondering, as most of them are Russians, could it be that they have far too many tests skates during the season? It must be difficult to stay in the top form all the time.
  24. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    But none of those examples can be because the GP season was too taxing. K/S and V/T were injured and may have been if it were the summer, it just so happened to be the beginning of December. The other two went to nationals and didn't do as well as they had wished, what ever their excuses were.

    I doubt the test skates had anything to do with because it didn't look like most of them did anything 100%.
  25. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Carolina Kostner skipped the recent Italian Championships, and she wasn't injured.
  26. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    No, because GPF is like the barometer on who will peak at Worlds Champ.
    in a way its a further building block for their performance
  27. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I question the importance of the Grand Prix Final to begin with. The Grand Prix events are fine, but IMO the final seems like just another event the top skaters have to contend with.
  28. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    See below:

    I think she said she needed a break after multiple events in different continents, in order to properly prepare for Europeans and Worlds.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  29. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Oh, come on! Of course the GPF is important!
  30. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Exactly! It pre-told Lipinski and Slutskaya becoming threats to the Kween in 1997 and 2000.

    Plus it was really the only major senior international event that Cohen won. :p
  31. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    So you want to move the entire grand prix because of one skater who already won multiple national titles? :scream: What does multiple events even mean... is it shows or competitions or what?
  32. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    Would you be kind enough to show me where I ever stated I want the entire grand prix moved?

    I'd like to see it. Expecially when you call me out on it. So politely, with the scream icon to complement it.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  33. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    I guess this shows how much skater value a national title over a GPF title. Who is there in Italy to challenge Kostner's national title? She could have competed, sure but why not get the bye and rest instead? It's not exactly a fierce competition in Italy.
    Same for the two Russian pairs, though there is more competition of course. I have no idea what kind of injury they have but I would assume they're minor. Still, they thought it was best to rest and sit out nationals which I find understandable. They would most likely have been 1-2 and they get the bye.

    I'd rather be Grand Prix Final Champion or win a medal there than a national title if were any of those top skaters.

    As for those skaters who claimed they were tired - other skaters competed in the GPF and did better and there were a lot of skaters before them who competed in the GPF and did well at their nationals afterwards. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the GP season, maybe it's their training habits I cannot comment on, maybe it's just the time of year or a million other reasons that they're tired.
  34. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    Why not get the bye and rest instead of competing at nationals?
    There are valid reasons.

    Part of it is in your words: it's not exactly a fierce competition.

    There's a whole country that supported Kostner for many years (financially too), through the good and the bad, that in my opinion deserves to see her at nationals, as a form of respect and gratitude. And so do her opponents, even if they are weaker.


    I'm sure skaters who attended four grand prix events (by choice, they could have done three) are tired.
    But as I've written before, if there are compelling reasons for them to show up at nationals, they do so anyway.
    It would be nice to see among those compelling reasons some spontaneous thrive for your home country most important event.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  35. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Oh, so you do agree with me, that even though you sited one skater who's ego doesn't need to be massaged by yet another national title, the GP series should continue as it is. Good to know :blah: :blah: :blah:
  36. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I meant move back as in earlier (i.e. start in mid October etc).
  37. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Then two GP events would overlap two JGP events, which would make it tough for Pairs teams who do both GP and JGP (though maybe it would be a GOOD thing for Pairs NOT to do both GP and JGP).

    That would also leave only a week or two between the early Senior Bs (Nebelhorn, Nepela, Finlandia) and the GPs. You can't move everything back.
  38. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Or JGP would have to be moved too, which means that everyone would have shorter time for preparation (shorter break between two seasons, less time to heal and have a rest).
  39. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, Brian Joubert skipped Nationals one year because of Grand-Prix final.
    I think it may happen in countries with not so much adversity.
  40. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Really? Let's look at it closer. In GPF there were only Tuktamysheva, Leonova, Kostner, Suzuki and Czisny. So who out of them is actually the one who competed at GPF and then did well at nationals? Leonova and Tuktamysheva both did not do very well, and both said that they were tired. (well, for Leonova we heard it from her coach before the event, from Tuktamysheva we heard it in interview afterwards). Kostner did not do nationals at all. Czisny did not do them yet, so she will have more time than the others from GPF to rest and then prepare herself. And that leaves us with Suzuki, who skated her worst skate this season at Japanese nationals. I am not sure who exactly you mean that competed at GPF and then did well at nationals that took place in December. At least from ladies.

    Mind you, from men - Brezina did not do well either at nationals in December, Canada did not have nationals yet so Chan will have time to rest and then prepare himself (the same for Abbott), I don't know when Spanish nationals are and so that leaves us only with the Japanese guys who competed at GPF and then soon after at nationals. I am not sure how they skated there, I did not watch it. I know Takahashi won, but if he skated well, I don't know.

    The thing is, if the GPF is in the middle of December and a week later are the nationals (Czech ones were 16-17.12), and if a skater did 3 GP events and GP final, that's five competitions within perhaps 8 weeks. That's a lot, especially with travelling accross the continents, different time zones etc.