Sets in the City - Tennis 2012 III

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Loves_Shizuka, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

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    WTH does Evert's life have to do with her being phony? Evert has only been married three times. lol

    I think Chris was a fantastic champion, one of the most mentally strong women's players ever(I think Serena, Steffi and Monica were better). I think Chris has love/hate relationship with the Williams sisters. We know the story of Venus and Serena meeting Chris as children and admiring her trophies.

    Chris' letter in Tennis Magazine was a "harsh" letter asking Serena to "stand up" and be the tennis player she was born to be. The Williams took it negatively I think and Serena basically said she's a different kind of player than Chris and Chris shouldn't speak to things she does not know about.

    I like Serena alot but for a few years she was acting like she was out of her freaking mind with her actions.

    I've read and heard about lots of stupid and nasty things said to Serena and Venus; they have been at the brunt of several nasty practical jokes, ie. Capriatii and Hingis putting used tampons in Venus' locker.

    *Hingis and Henin have to be two of the most disliked tennis players in the locker room and by other players within the last 15 years. Maria S isn't liked by many either, not for "sportsmanship"(like Hingis and Henin) issues but because Maria is very aloof and kind of cold in the locker room.

    Serena has been more "open" and "friendly" in the locker room over the years compared to Venus who took alot of shit and stood up for Serena early on. Venus is more jaded than Serena.

    IMHO, Serena is the greatest women's tennis player of all time. Serena has conquerered and beaten all of her rivals.

    Serena vs Hingis - 7 to 6

    Serena vs Capriati - 10 to 7

    Serena vs Henin - 8 to 6

    Serena vs Maria S - 9 to 2

    Steffi was a great champ but I will always say that she benefited from Monica's stabbing. I believe that Steffi would have finished with possibly 18 or 19. Graf won 6 GS titles during the 2 1/2 years Monica was out of the game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  2. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Here is an excerpt from the letter:

    In her recounting of the various events that sidetracked the champion, Evert left out the most significant event - the murder of Serena's oldest sister a week or two after the 2003 U.S. Open.

    It was APPALLING, horribly insensitive and just bad analysis from a supposedly astute commentator.
     
  3. hydro

    hydro Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Evert's letter was so miscalculated and ugly. It never got to the heart of Serena's absence after 2003, which Serena herself has admitted was a large part of her taking time away.

    And I just have to say, now that it's 2012, Serena has proven Evert wrong.
     
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    18 or 19 slams would still much more than Serena at this point, and Steffi's 100 plus tournament wins are light years more than Serena. I actually like Serena and I dont even care whether or not she is a steroid user since I think most professional athletes in most sports (all in some sports, eg cycling and weightlifting) dope anyway. Amongst tennis players Nadal, Djokovic, Stosur, Henin, are some others I am virtually certain were at some point, along with many others. However her stats arent GOAT worthy at this point. For me Steffi isnt the GOAT either, she is 2nd or 3rd. The true GOAT is Margaret Court who owns virtually every existing record, singles or doubles. Most shun Court and pick Steffi or Martina, but really based on numbers Court is the clear winner.

    There is nothing about Serena's career that is the GOAT at this point. Not dominance (even her 2002-2003 peak years were inferior to even say Seles's 91-92, and Seles's 91-92 was in turn far inferior to atleast 4 or 5 women have managed), not achievements, not slams, not overall tournament record, certainly not consistency, definitely not quality of competition . Maybe longevity at this point. Other than that only subjective arguments such as peak level play.
     
  5. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

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    @JudgeJudy27, Serena definitely has "skills" that elevate her into the greatest of all time, ie. serve, power and speed.

    The quality of players in my opinion is at it's best ever in the women's game. Fitness, ball striking ability, serve and movement all at it's peak right now. It's the reason why you will not see another teenager around the age of 13, 14, 15 or 16 win a grand slam ever again. The game has matured so much. Equipment is part of the puzzle but mentally, emotionally and variety of game is the main reason while teenagers won't win again.

    I think the game is more taxing physically, mentally and emotionally now than it was 40 years ago. The tennis season is longer and they're are more commitments on and off the court.
     
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Those things are supposed to improve with time. In 20 years or even much less there will probably be a swimmer who can swim faster PBs than Michael Phelps in all 5 of his Olympic Gold individual events ever did, and who can only muster a bronze or two out of all those events combined (in some of them probably not even trying for the team, especialy if from a strong country). It wouldnt mean that person is greater though. I definitely dont agree on the speed aspect anyway. Even in her own era Venus, Henin and Clijsters at their best were as good or better movers, especialy outside of the 18 month window of Serena's career which was the only time she was ever fully fit. She had great speed, especialy when not in terrible physical shape, but she didnt dominate with speed like she did with serve and power and all around game.

    OK I could see the point about the serve as all aspects of Serena's serve is the best in history IMO, but power and speed the evolution is natural. An athlete should be judged by how they fared in their own time. Someone like Kvitova can hit the ball harder than Graf and Seles did too, I dont think she deserves to be rated as better than them, just as I dont think Serena's career warrants GOAT yet.

    As for the womens game being the best ever you have got to be kidding me. Experts, including numerous past champions who now commentate or write for highly publicized magazines have dissed the quality of the womens game the last few years and called it the worst ever. 2012 was much better though, but 2009-2011 were probably the worst ever years for womens tennis ever. In case you need reminder though Caroline Wozniacki ended two straight years as year end World #1. Need I say more.
     
  7. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

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    Caroline Wozniacki ending the year at #1 for 2 years is a reflection of her consistency as a player for 2 years and the amount of tennis she played. Caroline W's skills have not progressed during the last 4 years; she has not improved her game nor her skills and the rest of the players are now attacking her weaknesses. Caroline W plays "old school" tennis with the looping top spin strokes and her serve is weak. She plays a defensive game not an aggressive one. These things are the reason she is not winning on a consistent basis as she use it.

    IMHO the game is the best ever for several reasons. There are no "glaring and huge" differences in talent between the #1 seed though #16. They are some players have the ability to be #1 now but many do not. Today's players move better, serve better and are better athletes overall then in years past. Now the equipment differently helps today's players, but one's equipment is only going to get them so far. The down period in the women's tennis were the years of 1997 to 2001 & 2007 to 2009. Half of the top 12 players were good but it was still a large gap,


    Past champions and experts are looking a "dominant" player on the women's side when they critique the women's game. Because they're isn't a "dominant" woman's player other than Serena, they feel the game is lacking. There are players like Kvitova, Azarenka, Serena W, Maria S and Agie Radwanska can all beat each other on any given day if they are playing their best tennis. Other players like Na, Petrova, Errani, Pennetta, Stosur are have chances to make to finals. I don't recall a time in tennis in the last 40 years than had so much talent in the top 12 seeds.

    Some of the so- called experts sometimes in my opinion are not looking the overall quality of the game when they compare past decade players to the current players. Graf and Seles were light years ahead of the other women's tennis players talent wise. Another players I loved growing up was Gabriella Sabatini; how many championships and titles did she beat Graf in? one. The difference in the mid 90s between Graf, Seles, and Sanchez Vicario vs the lower seeds were great and wide.

    Martina Hingis, if she played as she did from 1997 to 2000 would not win a GS tourney in today's game. She would be a top 10 player possibly but not GS contender.

    But I guess we'll have agree to disagree. Good debate though :)
     
  8. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

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    :wall: we drew Spain, the only advantage is that we are at home but oy, this is going to be near impossible to win.
     
  9. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    What I don't understand is why doesn't USADA just do hair follicle tests on their athletes every three months or so. Urine tests are just about not doing it one to two weeks in advance. Just enforce hair follicle drug tests. And if you show up to competition completely shaved you are DQd.

    As much as I am an uber fan of Serena's (as I was Lance's) I'm not blind. She's 30 years old dominating in a sport that is traditionally a younger adult's sport (16-24). Of course there are exceptions, but Serena came back from close to a year off for medical issues, and she's back in amazingly amazing form. A 30 y/o. I suppose it is possible, but I'm not naive. Why not just do a hair follicle test on Serena? The drug tester came, and she flees to her panic room and calls police. It's weird.

    As for GOAT, well, she completely dominated Graf in so many matches, it was unreal. Christine Evert? Hell, Chrissie would never have gotten a racket on any of Serena's serves and groundies. I still feel that Martina Navratilova is the GOAT, she had power and finesse and an all-court game. I do hope that Serena gets to 19. Heck, I want her fierce self to play until she's forty. Margaret Smith Court's record (24) is SOOOOO misleading because NO ONE played the Aussie Open in the 60s except Aussies, so of course ten or twelve of her titles are from that Open. It is a joke.

    Serena has to be included in the top three players of all time.
     
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Graf and Serena only played 2 matches, both when Graf was 30 years old (and the same year Serena had her breakthrough winning the U.S Open and 5 tournaments) and both ended 7-5 in the 3rd set, with one winning each. Well an exhibition tournament match too where Graf won 6-4, 6-2. My female GOAT list would be:

    1. Court
    2. Graf
    3. Navratilova
    4. Evert
    5. Serena

    However most peoples at this point seems to be:

    1. Graf
    2. Serena
    3. Navratilova
    4. Evert
    5. Court

    Regarding Court and the Australian Open even had everyone played she probably wins about 7 (as opposed to the 11 she did) so would still have about 20 slams, more than Martina, Chris, or Serena, and only less than the Seles stab aided Graf. Court also has the record for most combined singles/doubles slams with 62, most singles tournament titles with 199, and highest ever career win percentage in singles with Evert 2nd highest and Graf 3rd (Navratilova and Serena both way behind Court and Evert).
     
  11. twinsissv

    twinsissv Well-Known Member

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    Happy Birthday, Feliciano...you handsome devil you! !Felicidades! :swoon:
     
  12. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

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    Federer Receives Death Threat in Shanghai

    Very graphic death threat. I hope he stays safe.

     
  13. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

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  14. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    That's so creepy :yikes:

    Djokovic and Azarenka won the titles in Beijing. Vika is very close to clinching the year end #1 ranking.
     
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If Sharapova and Azarenka both have no more tournaments planned the remainder of the year, if Azarenka goes 2-1 in the RR at the YEC and loses in the semis, and Sharapova goes 3-0 in the RR and then wins the YEC, Azarenka would lose the year end #1 to Sharapova. Not that I see that happening.
     
  16. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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  17. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

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    Fan Apologizes for Death Threat

     
  18. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    It's still unacceptable.
     
  19. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    This had me :rofl:

    Gangnam Style by Laura Robson and Eugenie Bouchard, with cameos from Maria Sharapova, Jo-Wilfried Tsong and Samantha Stosur (among others) :lol:
     
  20. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

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    And this is why internet forums sometimes frighten me. I (quite rightly) dismiss almost everything I read if it's total nonsense, yet many of the things I read on tennis-forum.com do still really alarm me. Tennis fans seem an... "interesting" lot. This place is sedated in comparison :lol:
     
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  21. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    it's so true - both men's and women's forums are just odd, it's a whole different language

    as for World Tour Finals qualification, looks like Janko Tipsarevic has the upper hand on the final spot for London with John Isner perhaps sneaking in as well if Juan Martin del Potro cannot participate.
     
  22. jenny12

    jenny12 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it reminds me of a 49ers player last year who got death threats through Twitter for dropping a pass. Unbelievable.
     
  23. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Many congratulations to Heather Watson on winning the HP Open in Japan :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

    Watson becomes the first British woman since Sara Gomer in 1988 to win a WTA title. The great thing about Laura Robson's surge up the rankings is that it has now spurred Watson on to up her game. There is nothing like a domestic rivalry to inspire each of the rivals onto greater heights.

    Watson now moves into the top 50 and moves back ahead of Laura as British number 1.

    I think both Watson and Robson have the potential to break into the top 10 next season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  24. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    Great for Watson. And you are so right. Healthy competition between her and Robson should propel both of them forward. It worked for Henin and Clijsters.
     
  25. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

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    This is a huge result for Heather Watson and British Women's Tennis in general. That being said, I did think Robson would be the first to win a WTA event... :slinkaway but either way I am thrilled for Heather. First British woman to win in almost 25 years in singles on the WTA :eek:

    This really has been such a huge year for British Sport in general and this is just icing on the cake really. Heather is a scrappy player and really earned it. This will spur Laura and Heather on to bigger and better things next season.
     
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  26. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Novak saved 5 match points to beat Murray and take Shangai! :cheer2:
     
  27. duane

    duane New Member

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    That was an awesome Shanghai final! The 2nd-set tie-break was amazing. Novak's game went south last year after the USO, but not this year.
     
  28. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I think having both Heather and Laura move up the rankings at the same time will help split the attention from the press.

    Baltacha and Keothavong have had many chances already and have been injured too often to sustain good form. Time to move on.
     
  29. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    All this crazy hype about a player winning a relatively minor tournament has me :rofl:. I mean, it's a great achievement for Heather, but the British media is as loony as always.
     
  30. Rottie

    Rottie Well-Known Member

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    Well, they have to hype her properly so they can turn on her in a bit, innit?