Sets in the City - Tennis 2012 III

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Loves_Shizuka, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but I wouldn't expect Nadal to be seeded #2 at Wimbledon this year. OTOH, Roland Garros is a completely different tournament which Nadal has OWNED for how many years!!! There's no way Rafa should have been seeded #3 at Roland Garros. Apparently, that was just wishful thinking by the French and NBC. IOW, hoping Nadal either wouldn't make it to the semis, or that he'd be knocked out by Nole in the semis. FAT CHANCE!

    As far as Mac being in love with Nadal. :blah: I do believe Mac likes Nadal more than Carillo. And they both have shown Nadal grudging respect over the years. But seriously, in the early years of Federer vs Nadal, they completely favored Federer over Nadal. The favoritism and dismissiveness toward Nadal has been very obvious over the years. I think Mac couldn't help but begin to respect and like Nadal because of Nadal's true grit and the way Nadal has never given up, and because Nadal has proven time and time again that he's a champion with heart. Still there have been plenty of dismissive comments by both Mac and Carillo (especially Carillo) toward Nadal. Mac is just a little bit less biased than Carillo.

    Last year Carillo was doing a lot of silly talk about Nadal not being elegant enough. Usually when Carillo makes such dufus remarks, Mac takes the high road. Still, they both clearly favor Novak over Nadal, now that Federer is no longer at the height of his elegant dominance.

    Perhaps Mac isn't as enamored of Roger the way he used to be because Mac's critical of the way Roger has not worked very hard on adapting and changing his game in order to stay on top. Seems to me that Mac and NBC were interested in seeing Tsonga make the final because of the occasion and venue, and also because they may have felt if Novak got past Nadal, the final would be entertaining but not necessarily that difficult for Novak to win. Novak is the current apple of their eyes.

    It would have been entertaining to see a final with either Novak/ Federer, or Novak/ Tsonga, or Rafa/ Federer, or Rafa/ Tsonga, but obviously Novak vs Nadal was the EPIC final that happened in the semis.
     
  2. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Nadal has though won other Grand Slams than French Open, too: Australian Open, US Open and Wimbledon he has won twice. Besides, he is several years younger than Federer and has still time to win several Grand Slam tournaments.
     
  3. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    I am a Nadal fan, but Federer is the GOAT. McEnroe is a huge proponent of Nadal, always has been, but his habit of bringing up Nadal's winning record over Fed is misleading. The reason it's so lopsided (20-10) is that half of their meetings have been on clay, usually in finals (Rome, Monte Carlo, Roland Garros); Nadal is the best clay courter of all time and, until relatively recently, Federer was the second-best clay courter around. They competed less on hard courts, simply because Nadal did not reach as many hard court finals as Fed. Had a prime Fed met Nadal on hard courts more often, for example at the US Open 2006-2011, the record would be closer. Fed's mastery of every other player on clay, save Nadal, is what "hurt" him.
     
  4. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    i am not crazy about john mcenroe as a commentator. he spends so much time trying to be right. if he ever said you were going to be "the next great x" or something, he will try to make you happen and every little thing including how you towel off proves his point.
     
  5. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Re-read my post. I just said Federer has MORE of the other Slams.
     
  6. reve

    reve New Member

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    I don't think this argument is easily won for Rafa either way. Those who prefer Federer as GOAT will say that Federer has more and varied slams than Rafa. But, I think, if it was Federer who had a hugely lopsided Slam record - say, for example, 9 Wimbledon titles - then probably the same people would argue that showing such a dominance on one surface clinches the GOAT title. People will make the argument that serves their inclination.

    Personally, I think the whole GOAT argument is ridiculous. The whole argument is so forced, and does nothing but benefit the world of sports commentating that functions so much on pure hyperbole these days. To base the GOAT argument completely on Slams seems a bit ridiculous. But, also, even to do that (base it all on Slams) assumes a "with everything being equal" attitude, and things are never equal (competition, circumstances, technology, expectations, etc.). Had the 90s not been as competitive as it was, probably Sampras would have more Slam titles. Had the early 2000s not seen so many injuries and retirements, probably Federer would have less. Had Rafael Nadal not been 5 years younger than Federer, probably Federer would have still fewer titles. Had Rafael Nadal not been injured in 2009, probably Federer would not have the career slam, and would, therefore, have a weaker claim to the GOAT. And it goes on and on and on...

    I am a ridiculous fan of Rafa, but I couldn't care less about the GOAT argument. He's my personal GOAT, and whether or not people recognize that doesn't affect my ability to appreciate his playing, nor to appreciate other players' accomplishments.
     
  7. duane

    duane New Member

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    To nylynnr,

    :respec: :respec: :respec:
     
  8. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    FREAKY protests in the Ferrer/Nadal match. Dudes running around with fireworks and crap. I'd be scared out of my mind.
     
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    To reve,

    :respec: :respec: :respec:


    To nylynnr, we can all claim and ride whatever goat we please. ITA with reve that arguments surrounding who's the GOAT are pointless. It used to be Sampras vs. Laver bandied about all the time. What are they now? Chopped liver?

    It's not really about GOAT. It's about those epic moments of great play with the best of the best pushing each other to the limits with their hearts on fire, and our hearts in our throats cheering them on. I will never forget Borg vs. McEnroe 1980 Wimbledon. I will never forget Federer vs. Nadal 2008 Wimbledon. I will never forget Ivan Lendl at his best and Andre Agassi at his greatest. I will never forget the Evert vs Navratilova battles and Graf vs. Seles, and the way the Williams sisters took the women's game to new heights. I won't ever forget Arthur Ashe cool as a cucumber taking brash Jimmy Connors apart at Wimbledon 1975, thus changing the historic course of the men's game. And I won't forget Connors strutting his last hurrah at the U.S. Open in 1991.

    Speaking of EPIC, there's a 2011 book by that title re Borg vs McEnroe:

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...roe-and-borg-fifth-wimbledon-title-bjorn-borg


    BTW, Federer is a magical artist on the tennis court in a class by himself, and he holds some amazing records. The fact that Nadal has aspects to his game that have given Federer trouble goes beyond the court surfaces factor, although hard and grass surfaces have obviously been a neutralizer more favorable to Fed in their head to heads. Certainly Nadal will go down in history as the greatest ever on clay until and unless someone else comes along to match his records. Also to Nadal's credit is how he has been able to raise and adapt his game to win Grand Slams on other surfaces, and of course his lasting legacy will be the 110% never-say-die effort he always gives. To be honest, however, Nadal did not become such a great champion because he's concerned about any GOAT title claims by fans.

    I don't think Federer's losing record to Nadal (mostly on clay) has "hurt" Fed. It doesn't take anything away from Fed's records or his championship mettle. Clay is not Federer's best surface, but he learned how to master it, just as Nadal learned how to improve enough to win on grass. There are no what ifs, only what is.

    I think the fact that Federer has accomplished everything under the sun and then some in tennis makes him not quite as hungry, even though he still loves and respects the game and he can still make magic on the court.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  10. Lorac

    Lorac Well-Known Member

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    The ratings system needs some sort of overhaul as how can Nadal drop below Ferrer after beating him so convincingly on Sunday. Yes I know Nadal only defended his points and Ferrer did better than last year but still its pretty silly really.

    Watching some Queens club tennis (around rain showers) and the grass courts look so much smaller than the clay ones - weird as I know they are the same size but it just looks smaller to me!!
     
  11. topaz

    topaz Well-Known Member

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    Johnny Mac has always been fan of Roger; Johnny Mac in my opinion is one of the most fair announcers you'll see, other than Ted Robinson. John has noted and the game MISSED Rafa's presence which is freaking true.

    I think John's comments during the Roger match was that he wanted to see match. He expected Roger to "wake up" and play better as John actual said during the match. Also, John stated "where Roger's plan b"? The truth is Roger does not have a plan b because he has never had to had one before. But now later in his career, Roger is finding that he needs to have a plan b and plan c against a few of the top players.

    Tsonga has great talent but is now finally starting to play more consistent. I think Johnny Mac and others were stunned that Roger didn't wake up just as many of us were saddened with Tsonga's play in the semis.

    Regarding Rafa catching Roger's record, I doubt it. I love Rafa but I don't think his knees will allow him to play more than 2 to 3 years, tops. He's going to limited hard court season due to the knees. Both Rafa and Tony Nadal DID NOT think Rafa would play pro tennis again, period. Rafa said in his interview with John that he virtually did not practice tennis for 6 months!!!!

    I dont' respect anything Jimmy Connors did. He was and still is a sack of manure.
     
  12. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    Re: Johnny Mac, I have mixed emotions. I'll always like him, but his commentary seems inconsistent to me. At the beginning of the Nadal v Ferrer final, he talked about how Ferrer should try to keep points short. Well, Ferrer really can't do that consistently; he's a grinder, he's not going to start chipping and charging on clay. Later on, he talked about how Ferrer should engage in long rallies with Nadal. Obviously, Ferrer is screwed either way. It would take either an injury or a meltdown on Nadal's part for Ferrer to beat him in a five-set Roland Garros match.

    Tsonga's fitness has always been suspect. Seems Rasheed is taking care of that.

    Reading Connors' book now. I never liked him, either, but am enjoying reading his take on things. The game has changed so much, and I'd forgotten what a polite, "country club" sport it was before Connors and a few others came along.
     
  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Well, certainly Connors was and is always full of himself, but calling him manure maybe isn't quite apropos. I love horses and the smell of manure can grow on ya if indeed you're a horse lover. Manure after all is fertilizer. Perhaps "a rotten turd" might be a better way to characterize the conceited and boorish Connors. Still, he could play the game, and he famously "Gave them what they came for!"

    ITA that Mac generally tries to be fair in his mellow, more consciously aware older years, especially as a commentator. However, back-in-the-day Johnny Mac rivaled Nasty and the turd for worst on-court behavior.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  14. duane

    duane New Member

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    Roger always had a plan B or C, and would often make adjustments during a match when needed. To say otherwise is ridiculous! Against Tsonga, Roger never got plan A in motion. Plan B should have been to jumpstart plan A.

    I guess we'll just disagree about McEnroe (ESPECIALLY regarding his commentating!! UGH!!) and his feelings about Roger.
     
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  15. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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  16. reve

    reve New Member

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    Thanks for posting this link. He is identifying the type of hyperbole I was referring to in my post above. It seems like the only way American commentators feel that they can attract an audience and help the watcher justify watching the match is to talk about these rivalries and legacies in such exaggerated terms, and to point out that "you are witnessing history here". While that's sometimes true, it's often ridiculously overblown. It's kind of funny because in player interviews you can see that the players don't care about a lot of these so-called huge moments in tennis. They accept that you win some, you lose some, life goes on to the next tournament.
     
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ ITA. I'm trying to recall, but if memory serves me correct, Tony Trabert and Pat Summerall did a slightly better job back-in-the day of analyzing the tennis rather than exaggerating GOAT claims and leaning on hyperbole and schmoozing.

    The players understand and are prepared for the on-court grind, and I suppose at the same time realize and/ or learn how to come to grips with the off-court media hullabaloo/ often ridiculous press conference queries.
     
  18. Rottie

    Rottie Well-Known Member

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    Roger Federer won Halle. :cheer2:
     
  19. Lorac

    Lorac Well-Known Member

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    And Andy Murray won Queens - and donated his winnings to Royal Marsden a Cancer charity in honour of his best friend Ross Hutchins who was diagnosed with cancer about six months ago. He also played in a charity match right after his victory along with Tim Henman and Ivan Lendl as well as various celebs raising money for the same charity!!
     
  20. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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  21. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I really want to like Serena, and then she goes and says stuff like that :wall:
     
  22. Alixana

    Alixana who is on vacation!!

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    Someday I would really like to tag along with the athlete and the reporter to see how much is accurately portrayed and how much is the reporter's perception. Just cuz I'm curious. I think if I was letting a reporter tag along with me and listen to everything I say, I'd be much more careful about what I let slip (like I do when the boss spends the day with me at work .. lol). But maybe I'm just naturally more cautious.
     
  23. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    It is not like Serena hasn't said think she should not say live on air, so I don't think we need to worry a lot about journalist misinterpreting Serena. She has justified unprofessional replies and behaviour as a nature of someone brought up in Bronx. I would worry if someone like Roger Federer saying totally uncharacteristic reply to a question.
     
  24. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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  25. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    That article "about" Serena is full of hyperbole and speculation.
    I'd take most of what it says with a boatload of salt.

    When you've been trained to be a tennis-playing machine; social skills and tact are likely not high on the agenda.
     
  26. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  28. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    That will suck for #1-3 if they face Nadal in the quarters.
     
  29. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Being a famous tennis player does not make blaming the victim OK. And I don't see how the two are related - Venus Williams,f or example, has always been a class act.

    Rolling Stone is standing by the interview.
     
  30. london_calling

    london_calling New Member

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    Serena's Non-Apology