Sets in the City - Tennis 2012 III

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Loves_Shizuka, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    The autumn is my favourite non-GS part of the tennis year. I just wish they brought all those indoor Euro tournaments back, though there are still a few knocking about.
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  2. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly, from 2013, the ATP wiil be trying out a few new rules:

    ATP BOARD APPROVES CHANGE IN TIME VIOLATION PENALTY

    “No let” serve set for three-month trial on ATP Challenger Tour in 2013

    NEW YORK — At its recent meetings in New York, the ATP Board of Directors approved a rule change and a trial for the 2013 season, both proposed by the new ATP Competition Committee.

    From 2013, on both the ATP World Tour and ATP Challenger Tour, a time violation between points (25 seconds) will be penalised in the first instance with a warning. For the second and all subsequent violations, the penalty will be a fault for the server and a point penalty for the receiver. Currently, the rule is a warning and then point penalty for both the server and receiver.

    “There’s been a lot of discussion about the amount of time taken between points,” said ATP Executive Chairman and President Brad Drewett. “We believe this modification will give officials a useful tool and allow for more consistent enforcement of the current time violation rule.”

    The ATP Board also approved a trial elimination of the service let on the ATP Challenger Tour only, for the first three months of 2013.


    “Although this change will not materially reduce the length of a match, we believe it should have a positive impact on the flow of the match,” said Drewett. “We’re certainly not ready yet to eliminate the service let, but believe a trial at the ATP Challenger level will be a good way to test this initiative in a competitive environment and get feedback from players and the public before deciding if it could be adapted more broadly.”
  3. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
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  4. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Quite interesting stat - Donna Vekic (Croatia) has reached the semi's of the tournament in Tashkent, her main draw WTA debut. She is 16 years old and is the youngest MD semi-finalist since Azarenka in 2005.... Perhaps one to look out for?
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It will be an interesting battle for the year end #1 for men. Djokovic is approximately 1000 points ahead of Federer in the race points (points for only this year). Federer is generally the Worlds best indoor player. Murray is about 3000 points back of Djokovic and 2000 back of Federer so has virtually no chance barring Federer and Djokovic both getting injured and not playing anymore tournaments and Murray sweeping the entire fall season. Murray only has to win about 2 matches to supplant Nadal for the year end #3 though, since Nadal apparently isnt playing anymore this year. The Player of the Year awards for men will also be interesting and for once might not go to the Year end #1.

    For the women Azarenka and Sharapova are also in a tight battle for the year end #1 with Azarenka about 500 points in the WTA race points for the year right now. Serena could get it if she plays alot and wins alot this fall but given her history this is unlikely her choice.
  6. Megi

    Megi Well-Known Member

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    For the rest of the season (excluding Rafa since he's off injured), here's what the remaining big three have to defend:

    Fed has 3000 pts to defend

    Murray has 1930 pts to defend

    Nole has 560 pts to defend
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Federer is really under the gun. He could even lose #2 to Murray if he doesnt have a great indoor season and Murray does. Federer is usually a great indoor player though.
  8. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Good for Serena!! Looks like she found someone. Same with Venus too. Good for them.

    One of the goss websites I go to state there is a woman tennis star who's voice is much lower that she rarely speaks or grunts anymore due to PED. I assumed it was Serena, since she was SOOOOO quiet. But she looks and sounds more feminine in years. Others say Schiavone, but hey that's obvious, and she's not really a 'star'.

    In a very sad way, as much as I looked up to Marion Jones and respected her (and she did look feminine), I am waiting for the ball to drop dead on Serena. I was on Team V and S since 1994 (?) when they were first in Sports Illustrated. It was a crazy article. Richard Williams was convinced V would be number one in the world. But then stated that his younger daughter Serena had the potential to be even better, and that the two would reign on the professional tour. Everyone snickered. Guess what, Richard snickered in the 2000's. Even the phony Chrissie Evert/Lloyd/Mill/Norman (anyone else I've forgotten?) finally had to give S and V their props.

    I will always be a supporter of Venus and Serena. For almost twenty years I have followed their humble beginnings and eventual successes. I'm from Texas and supported Lance Armstrong from the start, since he started in Plano.

    I am a tad nervous about the drug testing.
  9. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Serena has had that build since she was a young teen.

    I'm pretty sure they are talking about Stosur.
  10. topaz

    topaz New Member

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  11. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I just want Serena et al to be randomly tested throughout the year, like poor Kyoko Ina who had an uncomfortable experience at five in the morning.

    As far as I am concerned since the anti-doping has emerged, if someone 'gets away' with it, so be it, it's the doping people's fault for not catching it. I'm still mightily depressed about Marion Jones, but so what. It really is hard to not imagine Serena Williams doing SOMETHING. Really, you see her in a bikini and she looks totes drag. And I'm her fan. But something is not quite cool in Denmark. As long as she gets away with it, I'm fine. But it reminds me of Steffi Graf who said for FOUR years she was only tested once and that was at the 88 Olys. She was world number one and eventually won the Grand Slam in 88, but the only time in four years she was tested was at Olys. That bothers me, but it seems WTA does not see this as a problem. Schiavone and Stosur are obviously "working out heavily", but Serena and Venus were once associated with Balk (?) that was associated with major PED usage.

    I love V and S, don't get me wrong. I still feel, test Serena NOW, if she's clean, all her titles are clean. Same with V. No biggie, I'm not being racist, I just think something is up with Serena. But if she passed a US Open drug test, then that's good for me. Though it makes one wonder why she plays so few tournaments where she could be tested. It's easy to work out and then stay off the stuff for three weeks before a grand slam.... Just saying. I've always wondered why V and S hardly contributed to the tour and only showed up pumped and ready for the slams. Who knows. I'm very sad about Lance Armstrong, he's like 15 years past his peak and still is dogged with this.
  12. Rottie

    Rottie Well-Known Member

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    I thought the players had to keep their schedules on record every day so that they could be drug tested at the drop of a hat. I've read interviews in which Serena and Nadal have said this is an imposition because they'd rather be able to change their minds about where they're going to go without logging it in.

    At any rate, unless someone fails a test or a witness comes forward and says, "I saw so-and-so take PEDs," or "So-and-so told me they took PEDs," why speculate? Tennis is played successfully by men and women with a range of body types, tall and short, lanky and stocky, softer and ripped. I don't think someone should be subjected to reputation-damaging speculation because they look more muscular than most others, especially when they've always looked more or less that way.
  13. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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  14. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Mouratoglou (Serena's new BF/coach) is married :watch:
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  15. elka_sk8

    elka_sk8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, isn't that what got Yanina Wickmayer in trouble? She didn't fail a drug test or anything, but neglected to report her whereabouts.
  16. Jimena

    Jimena Well-Known Member

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    They don't get tested only during tournaments. They get random people showing up wherever they are asking for drug tests. IIRC, tennis has one of the most thorough testing programs.

    And though I've never been much of a Serena fan, I'm glad she's chosen to play a lighter schedule. It's ensured her longer career.
  17. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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  18. hydro

    hydro Well-Known Member

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    I get so tired of the doping speculation with Serena :rolleyes: So she doesn't look like a pretty blonde skinny girl, it must mean she is doping! I know so many fit, black women who have Serena's body type, and they are all gorgeous and definitely don't dope.

    It's just plain stupidity that anyone brings it up.
  19. topaz

    topaz New Member

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    :D Say what you really feel.

    I hear ya though. Serena has a thick body type. Other than Venus all the women in the Williams family are thick or prone to be overweight. Serena has a voluptuous body type and if she does not work out she would blow up.

    I've never thought she took enhancement drugs. Serena gains weight and her muscles turn to flabby after not exercising. That's natural.

    Also, watching Serena play over the years, she does not have a "cheater" mentality. She's always been a very fair opponent.
  20. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    That happened late October 2011. They say it's not known if she took the drug test, but it is known by now. Had she refused, she would have drawn a sanction of some kind because refusals are treated like positives.

    If some random stranger showed up at my place before 6:00 AM, I would have freaked out, too!
  21. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    Serena is what I'd call a brick house, you know, like the song Kurt Browning skated to. Stacked.

    Anyway, I can understand that people might wonder about Serena because of her shoulders/arms. Her biceps and deltoids are huge, bigger than what many men have. I think she's far more muscular than Roger Federer, lol, but he's never been muscular like other guys. But, she's always been big like that. With Stosur, though, I really wonder about PEDs. She is so big right now and it overwhelms the rest of her so much that every time I see her, I wonder about drugs. It's just so different than everyone else.

    I don't think it's actual stupidity that makes people bring the issue of drugs up every time they see a female athlete (or male) with huge muscles and big success. I think many of us have become pretty cynical about successful athletes after so many have eventually been caught cheating in some way. You really don't know who is clean and who isn't, especially after many of those cheaters tested clean for many years.
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    People dont wonder about Stosur as much as Serena since she doesnt overwhelm the other girls with extreme physicality in her actual tennis play, she doesnt hit the ball so much harder and seem that much more athletic than everyone else the way Serena does. However that is because her technique is not that great (relative to other top players) and she isnt as naturally athletic either. However her play which is in no way physically overwhelming or overpowrering to the other girls the way Serena in makes you forget how big and muscular she is. Serena really reminds you of how how big and muscular she is with her play which seems physically overwhelming.
  23. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yadda, yadda, yadda!!!

    15 Grand Slam singles titles (a total of 30 Grand Slam titles combined) ... count 'em! Indeed, you are majestic, Serena -- and ain't it about d**n time that fact is simply accepted and celebrated?! Swallow hard and speculate as you may people, and google and goggle :eek: at her kickin' body, powerful in-your-face play, and range of emotions. Quite simply, Serena has grown up in the fishbowl of fame and yet is still grounded ... even as she has reached ever new heights of greatness. If you can't admire her stone cold fierceness on court or the warmth of her smile in victory, then just continue harrumphing and haranguing, speculating and dissembling and claiming how much you really like her, butt ... #%&$$$!

    Serena has survived the death of a sister, the illness of another sister and near death herself, a stunning defeat at the French Open this year, cat calls and derision from fans, officials and commentators alike. She has not only survived all that and more, she has thrived in the elite, country club, traditionally lily white "we're better than you" atmosphere of tennis. In the process, Serena, along with her big sis and best friend, cool queenly Venus, changed the game of tennis ... Oh yeah, swallow hard if you must, they changed the game with their power, glamour, belief in themselves, with their excellence and with their majesty.

    Anyone can say whatever they so please. Truth of the matter is: Serena and Venus won their titles with their god-given gifts and warrior mentalities. Disparage them if you wish to your heart's content ... no one can take their titles away. Unlike in figure skating, there is no subjectivity in tennis ... when you win, you WIN.

    Smack on THIS! from Zech of Lawrence, Kan, posted w/ thoughtful response by Jon Wertheim:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20120711/serena-williams-mailbag/

    Read THIS! from Frank Deford: (listening is even better)

    http://www.npr.org/2012/08/22/159506832/serena-williams-takes-tennis-for-a-ride
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
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  24. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    word to your mother!
  25. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    oh aftershocks, YES!!
  26. Rottie

    Rottie Well-Known Member

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    Jon Wertheim alludes to Chris Evert's well-known history with the Williams family. What is it?
  27. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone in Canada see Filip Peliwo's dance after Milos won his reverse singles at Davis Cup today? :scream::rofl:
  28. Alixana

    Alixana recovering Oly-holic

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    Gangnam Canadian style! :lol: Poor kid .. he was a good sport to do that on live TV.
  29. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Well, the Willaimses did not set up with Everts down in Florida. This probably is the one time Christine should have recused herself from commentating. Instead America's Sweetheart trashed the Williamses even though there was family financial squabble.

    Chris Evert is the biggest phony in women's tennis history. She is a joke among journalists. She's broken up several marriages, married a couple of guys who divorced their wives just to have her for a couple of years. She is a joke. And the more face lifts she gets will never help her severely sun damaged skin. She is a wreck.
  30. Megi

    Megi Well-Known Member

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    So glad Canada is staying in the DC World Group. :cheer:

    Now, bring on the draw. This Wednesday, 6 am Eastern.
  31. topaz

    topaz New Member

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    WTH does Evert's life have to do with her being phony? Evert has only been married three times. lol

    I think Chris was a fantastic champion, one of the most mentally strong women's players ever(I think Serena, Steffi and Monica were better). I think Chris has love/hate relationship with the Williams sisters. We know the story of Venus and Serena meeting Chris as children and admiring her trophies.

    Chris' letter in Tennis Magazine was a "harsh" letter asking Serena to "stand up" and be the tennis player she was born to be. The Williams took it negatively I think and Serena basically said she's a different kind of player than Chris and Chris shouldn't speak to things she does not know about.

    I like Serena alot but for a few years she was acting like she was out of her freaking mind with her actions.

    I've read and heard about lots of stupid and nasty things said to Serena and Venus; they have been at the brunt of several nasty practical jokes, ie. Capriatii and Hingis putting used tampons in Venus' locker.

    *Hingis and Henin have to be two of the most disliked tennis players in the locker room and by other players within the last 15 years. Maria S isn't liked by many either, not for "sportsmanship"(like Hingis and Henin) issues but because Maria is very aloof and kind of cold in the locker room.

    Serena has been more "open" and "friendly" in the locker room over the years compared to Venus who took alot of shit and stood up for Serena early on. Venus is more jaded than Serena.

    IMHO, Serena is the greatest women's tennis player of all time. Serena has conquerered and beaten all of her rivals.

    Serena vs Hingis - 7 to 6

    Serena vs Capriati - 10 to 7

    Serena vs Henin - 8 to 6

    Serena vs Maria S - 9 to 2

    Steffi was a great champ but I will always say that she benefited from Monica's stabbing. I believe that Steffi would have finished with possibly 18 or 19. Graf won 6 GS titles during the 2 1/2 years Monica was out of the game.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  32. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Here is an excerpt from the letter:

    In her recounting of the various events that sidetracked the champion, Evert left out the most significant event - the murder of Serena's oldest sister a week or two after the 2003 U.S. Open.

    It was APPALLING, horribly insensitive and just bad analysis from a supposedly astute commentator.
  33. hydro

    hydro Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Evert's letter was so miscalculated and ugly. It never got to the heart of Serena's absence after 2003, which Serena herself has admitted was a large part of her taking time away.

    And I just have to say, now that it's 2012, Serena has proven Evert wrong.
  34. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    18 or 19 slams would still much more than Serena at this point, and Steffi's 100 plus tournament wins are light years more than Serena. I actually like Serena and I dont even care whether or not she is a steroid user since I think most professional athletes in most sports (all in some sports, eg cycling and weightlifting) dope anyway. Amongst tennis players Nadal, Djokovic, Stosur, Henin, are some others I am virtually certain were at some point, along with many others. However her stats arent GOAT worthy at this point. For me Steffi isnt the GOAT either, she is 2nd or 3rd. The true GOAT is Margaret Court who owns virtually every existing record, singles or doubles. Most shun Court and pick Steffi or Martina, but really based on numbers Court is the clear winner.

    There is nothing about Serena's career that is the GOAT at this point. Not dominance (even her 2002-2003 peak years were inferior to even say Seles's 91-92, and Seles's 91-92 was in turn far inferior to atleast 4 or 5 women have managed), not achievements, not slams, not overall tournament record, certainly not consistency, definitely not quality of competition . Maybe longevity at this point. Other than that only subjective arguments such as peak level play.
  35. topaz

    topaz New Member

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    @JudgeJudy27, Serena definitely has "skills" that elevate her into the greatest of all time, ie. serve, power and speed.

    The quality of players in my opinion is at it's best ever in the women's game. Fitness, ball striking ability, serve and movement all at it's peak right now. It's the reason why you will not see another teenager around the age of 13, 14, 15 or 16 win a grand slam ever again. The game has matured so much. Equipment is part of the puzzle but mentally, emotionally and variety of game is the main reason while teenagers won't win again.

    I think the game is more taxing physically, mentally and emotionally now than it was 40 years ago. The tennis season is longer and they're are more commitments on and off the court.
  36. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Those things are supposed to improve with time. In 20 years or even much less there will probably be a swimmer who can swim faster PBs than Michael Phelps in all 5 of his Olympic Gold individual events ever did, and who can only muster a bronze or two out of all those events combined (in some of them probably not even trying for the team, especialy if from a strong country). It wouldnt mean that person is greater though. I definitely dont agree on the speed aspect anyway. Even in her own era Venus, Henin and Clijsters at their best were as good or better movers, especialy outside of the 18 month window of Serena's career which was the only time she was ever fully fit. She had great speed, especialy when not in terrible physical shape, but she didnt dominate with speed like she did with serve and power and all around game.

    OK I could see the point about the serve as all aspects of Serena's serve is the best in history IMO, but power and speed the evolution is natural. An athlete should be judged by how they fared in their own time. Someone like Kvitova can hit the ball harder than Graf and Seles did too, I dont think she deserves to be rated as better than them, just as I dont think Serena's career warrants GOAT yet.

    As for the womens game being the best ever you have got to be kidding me. Experts, including numerous past champions who now commentate or write for highly publicized magazines have dissed the quality of the womens game the last few years and called it the worst ever. 2012 was much better though, but 2009-2011 were probably the worst ever years for womens tennis ever. In case you need reminder though Caroline Wozniacki ended two straight years as year end World #1. Need I say more.
  37. topaz

    topaz New Member

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    Caroline Wozniacki ending the year at #1 for 2 years is a reflection of her consistency as a player for 2 years and the amount of tennis she played. Caroline W's skills have not progressed during the last 4 years; she has not improved her game nor her skills and the rest of the players are now attacking her weaknesses. Caroline W plays "old school" tennis with the looping top spin strokes and her serve is weak. She plays a defensive game not an aggressive one. These things are the reason she is not winning on a consistent basis as she use it.

    IMHO the game is the best ever for several reasons. There are no "glaring and huge" differences in talent between the #1 seed though #16. They are some players have the ability to be #1 now but many do not. Today's players move better, serve better and are better athletes overall then in years past. Now the equipment differently helps today's players, but one's equipment is only going to get them so far. The down period in the women's tennis were the years of 1997 to 2001 & 2007 to 2009. Half of the top 12 players were good but it was still a large gap,


    Past champions and experts are looking a "dominant" player on the women's side when they critique the women's game. Because they're isn't a "dominant" woman's player other than Serena, they feel the game is lacking. There are players like Kvitova, Azarenka, Serena W, Maria S and Agie Radwanska can all beat each other on any given day if they are playing their best tennis. Other players like Na, Petrova, Errani, Pennetta, Stosur are have chances to make to finals. I don't recall a time in tennis in the last 40 years than had so much talent in the top 12 seeds.

    Some of the so- called experts sometimes in my opinion are not looking the overall quality of the game when they compare past decade players to the current players. Graf and Seles were light years ahead of the other women's tennis players talent wise. Another players I loved growing up was Gabriella Sabatini; how many championships and titles did she beat Graf in? one. The difference in the mid 90s between Graf, Seles, and Sanchez Vicario vs the lower seeds were great and wide.

    Martina Hingis, if she played as she did from 1997 to 2000 would not win a GS tourney in today's game. She would be a top 10 player possibly but not GS contender.

    But I guess we'll have agree to disagree. Good debate though :)
  38. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

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    :wall: we drew Spain, the only advantage is that we are at home but oy, this is going to be near impossible to win.
  39. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    What I don't understand is why doesn't USADA just do hair follicle tests on their athletes every three months or so. Urine tests are just about not doing it one to two weeks in advance. Just enforce hair follicle drug tests. And if you show up to competition completely shaved you are DQd.

    As much as I am an uber fan of Serena's (as I was Lance's) I'm not blind. She's 30 years old dominating in a sport that is traditionally a younger adult's sport (16-24). Of course there are exceptions, but Serena came back from close to a year off for medical issues, and she's back in amazingly amazing form. A 30 y/o. I suppose it is possible, but I'm not naive. Why not just do a hair follicle test on Serena? The drug tester came, and she flees to her panic room and calls police. It's weird.

    As for GOAT, well, she completely dominated Graf in so many matches, it was unreal. Christine Evert? Hell, Chrissie would never have gotten a racket on any of Serena's serves and groundies. I still feel that Martina Navratilova is the GOAT, she had power and finesse and an all-court game. I do hope that Serena gets to 19. Heck, I want her fierce self to play until she's forty. Margaret Smith Court's record (24) is SOOOOO misleading because NO ONE played the Aussie Open in the 60s except Aussies, so of course ten or twelve of her titles are from that Open. It is a joke.

    Serena has to be included in the top three players of all time.
  40. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Graf and Serena only played 2 matches, both when Graf was 30 years old (and the same year Serena had her breakthrough winning the U.S Open and 5 tournaments) and both ended 7-5 in the 3rd set, with one winning each. Well an exhibition tournament match too where Graf won 6-4, 6-2. My female GOAT list would be:

    1. Court
    2. Graf
    3. Navratilova
    4. Evert
    5. Serena

    However most peoples at this point seems to be:

    1. Graf
    2. Serena
    3. Navratilova
    4. Evert
    5. Court

    Regarding Court and the Australian Open even had everyone played she probably wins about 7 (as opposed to the 11 she did) so would still have about 20 slams, more than Martina, Chris, or Serena, and only less than the Seles stab aided Graf. Court also has the record for most combined singles/doubles slams with 62, most singles tournament titles with 199, and highest ever career win percentage in singles with Evert 2nd highest and Graf 3rd (Navratilova and Serena both way behind Court and Evert).