senior ladies w/ too high or too low PCS scores

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by icellist, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. icellist

    icellist Member

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    I've been watching a lot of videos of ladies that i think are getting too high PCS or too low PCS

    too low: yukari nakano and akiko suzuki

    too high: miki ando and rachel flatt - yes, they're great technicians but PCS?

    your thoughts or other skaters you think were cheated on scores?
     
  2. icellist

    icellist Member

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    also i think yuna kim is a great skater and definitely a top skater but her scores were soo inflated at the Olympics
    and even though suguri is getting kind of old for the GP, her scores dont deserve to be that low
     
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  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Overrated: definitely Ando, bombing Kostner, Zhang and Flatt

    Underrated: Nagasu, Wagner, Phaneuf, Lepisto

    For how they were skating last season, I think Kim, Asada and Rochette were fairly marked on PCS.
     
  4. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    A week before, I also would've listed Ando and Kostner as over-marked skaters.
    After watching Asada score 57 in PCS at Japan Open with a mistake-filled and lifeless crap skate, I've changed my mind.
     
  5. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    You can't waste an opportunity, can you?

    :rolleyes:
     
  6. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Too high: Kostner when she bombs, Lepisto most of the time esp. when she doubles most of her jumps, Rochette when she makes lots of mistakes, Asada for last seasons programs

    Too low: Suzuki, Nagasu before the Olympics

    Flatt and Ando have never gotten PCS that were that high so I think they are marked fairly for what they do. Wagner can be messy, Czisny is slow and cautious, and Zhang has lots of very visible issues so I actually think they are marked fairly for PCS as well.
     
  7. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I think that the PC scores are fairly bogus for fast-rising skaters. It annoys the heck out of me when a skater's PC scores jump by a point or more per category between the SP and the LP after an unheralded skater delivers a dynamite SP. The failure to significantly vary the marks based on the individual components is still another problem.

    Lepisto's PC scores often seem too high, but I think that is more a defect in the definition of the components, and an overall failure of NJS technical scores to appropriate reward technical difficulty and being able to do more than a couple kinds of triples.
     
  8. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    PCS is such a crapshoot at times. But I have realized something. For skaters one likes, the PCS will seem fair or undermarked. For skaters one doesn't like that much, the PCS often feel inflated at times. :hat1: :p
     
  9. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Overmarked: Lepisto by far, all the top skaters when they bomb (ie Rochette , Kostner, Kim, Asada)

    Undermarked: Suzuki, Phaneuf, Wagner, Nakano (before she retired. :( )
     
  10. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Um, wouldn't their scores being too high or low depend on the quality of each individual performance? It's reasonable to speculate whether the PCS scores were too high or low for a particular skater giving a particular performance at a particular event. It's somewhat less reasonable to generalize that someone's PCS scores are always too high or too low.
     
  11. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    You have to break the PCS down to the specific aspects with regards to whether they are too high.

    Ando for my mind gets marked way to high for choreography and interpretation. She just does not use her music. But her marks for skating skills are fair.

    Someone like Kostner could be mark too high for performance and execution when she skaters poorly, but she uses every ounce of the music and is spot on with it.
     
  12. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Surprised Lepisto has been brought up here. Her errors in the jumping shouldn't translate to lower PCS scores. She has fine skating skills, choreography, and interpretation. Her Olympic FS was divine.
     
  13. ainouta

    ainouta Well-Known Member

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    I would agree that her skating skills, transitions, and choreography are always very good. However, the difference in her performance quality and commitment to interpretation is much better when she's having an "on" skate like she did at the Olympics - I've never seen her so excited and energetic. The fact that PCS marks cannot be varied very drastically is probably a contributing factor to this, though.
     
  14. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    I see your point. That theory could probably be applied to even the best of skaters, though (i.e. Kim at Worlds).
     
  15. ainouta

    ainouta Well-Known Member

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    Oh, for sure. Kim's PCS at Worlds was way too high for P/E in my opinion.
     
  16. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    I think Nagasu was way underscored at the Olympics.

    To me, Yu-Na's PCS scores could never be too high. Her technique is perfection.
     
  17. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this.
     
  18. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Not referring to any particular skater...

    It would be possible for a skater to have perfect technique and very little transitions, choreography, or interpretation, or even to be weak in some aspects of performance/execution.

    Should that be the case, I would hope that the judges would award high scores for Skating Skills and lower, perhaps much lower, for the other components, as appropriate.
     
  19. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I thought Mirai deserved the bronze in Vancouver with scores similar to those of Asada and Rochette. I thought she should have beaten both Asada and Rochette in the FS as she was clean and they both made some sizable errors, and edged out Rochette for the bronze overall where they did land the same jumps in the SP. Mao would have edged out Mirai overall because of the SP but the scores would have been much closer, I know it was a big deal she did 2 3a in her FS but it still doesn't make up for the fact that she only landed 4 clean triples in that FS which was also choreographically empty.
     
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  20. icellist

    icellist Member

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    while i do think kim's technique is near flawless. technique should be in the TES score not PCS
     
  21. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    The big problem I have artistically with Lepisto is her crazy windmilly arms. GOSH I HATE THEM! They just ruin her performance.

    And either way, her PCS score for her free skates should be nowhere near the 60 she gets. 55 is more like what she should be getting. She should get like 2s for P/E.
     
  22. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Go watch some skaters who actually get 2s.

    For one thing, skaters at that level often have significant issues with posture and extension compared to world-class skaters, and that's a big part of the P/E mark.
     
  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I feel like when Laura is doubling a lot of jumps, her performance is not as good, she seems to get frustrated and nervous and doesn't present as much or pay as much attention to the music as she does when she is hitting her triples, therefore I think her PCS should be significantly lower when she makes mistakes.
     
  24. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    Oh bah even when doubling Lepisto's blade work is superb. Should could take a dump on ice and her skating is still superior to nearly everyone else.
     
  25. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    I think Laura Lepisto is a solid skater, but her PCS marks are always a half point higher than they should be.

    Agree that Cynthia Phaneuf and Akiko Suzuki are a little undermarked.

    Adelina Sotnikova has a wide range on her scores, they really should be in the high 5's or low 6s, but 7s are out of line.

    As for skaters with great technique but poor performance skills - Zhengxin Guo, that insane jumper in the late 90s and early 2000s, comes to mind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  26. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I give 2s to Preliminary and Elementary level skaters.

    Lepisto, regardless of the jumps, does everything else that is required of her and deserves the PCS she gets.
     
  27. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    But it is an interesting argument that she can do some of that because she doesn't bother to do many of the harder triples. I'd like to see a system where PCS scores are capped based on your tech score, as in not being able to earn PCS scores that are larger than your tech score.
     
  28. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Kevin Reynolds, Samuel Contesti, and Ryan Bradley all come to mind when I think of talented jumpers with poor skating skills, all of them are long legged and don't really get into their knees which lessens the impact of their skating.
     
  29. El Rey

    El Rey Well-Known Member

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    All of them! Cause none of the judges know how to score! I want to see 8.25 for skating skills and at the same time 5.00 for transitions!
     
  30. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    That's rare, unfortunately because of the infamous judging "corridor." Some judges are notorious, however, for really utilizing the entire range of PCS (i.e. Joe Inman and his 2's for transitions at nationals). I don't really have a problem with that, though. If a program had no transitions, subtracting a point or two from a 7.50 SS program is not right.