RSF forcing Russian coaches to coach only Russians until Sochi

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Ajax, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    However, come Sochi, they will have to make a choice while politicking.

    Plus, however fairly they try to divide their time, their time is still divided. It's can't be like having two coaches dedicated to just two couples - only one of them senior - and putting all their hopes and energy into those couples.


    I prefer the technique Zhulin teaches to the technique S/Z teach. Shpilband's teams are doing the tricks, but their overall quality is not as good as the Zhulin or Zazoui teams IMO. Virtue/Moir still throw a lot of snow off their blades and don't have that sweet edge quality that DelShoes and now Pechalat/Bourzat have IMO. Many of the other Shpilband teams have this problem and in addition are sloppy with their free legs and lines.

    Of course as competitive skaters they want to win medals and in CoP quality doesn't count for much. One might say that I/K can only wish to learn to be skate like V/M. However, I find it sad that the art of ice dance as it used to be, can't be transmitted at least to some young dancers. When this generation of coaches are gone, noone will remember how the former ice dancers used to float effortlessly and silently on the ice. :swoon:
  2. millipied

    millipied New Member

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  3. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    IMO that's it. And I predict we'll be getting there sooner than later. Let's say the powers that be haven't been really impressed by some of the results and are willing to make some changes to reflect to that area.
    Quality over poorly done jobs. Let's hope it's true !
  4. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    Ah yes, the good old days when only the best skaters with the most wonderful qualities won medals. Not like these young whippersnappers today galloping across the ice on their toepicks kicking up snowstorms.
    manhn and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    There were politics in the old days and there are still politics under the CoP.

    The skaters in older times had some admirable qualities that today's skaters don't have, such as better flow, smooth and clean edges, better lines and unison. Today's skaters have other admirable qualities that the old skaters didn't have, such as the increased difficulty of the step sequences.

    What I meant with my above post is that I don't want the former qualities to be forgotten in favour of more difficulty, because ice dance has started to look a bit too ragged IMO.

    Maybe the judges could mark down elements that are raggedly done even without visible mistakes and give higher marks to easier but better skated elements. At the moment elements are marked down only for mistakes or when the couple is a lower-level one. Whereas in pairs, judges have started making a finer distinction. For instance, V/T's magnificient 3twist was only level 1 because of its entry, but received such a high GoE that it was worth only 0.14 points less than S/S's level 2 3twist, which didn't have a mistake either. Maybe this kind of marking could help the couples firts perfect what they are doing and then pass to the next level.
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
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  6. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    :rofl:
  7. PRlady

    PRlady aspiring tri-national

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    Maybe, my dear Asli, the French teams need to be trained differently so as not to blow big comps. Delschoes blew at least two chances at medals, IIRC, and P/B don't need this mentioned again. S/Z teams, with the exception of Tanith's fall on the CD at the Worlds they were supposed to win, tend to come through with excellent training and nerve.

    There were those who thought Isabel (not Oliver) was sorely lacking some elegant qualities of line and edges, as well, so as usual it's chacon a son gout. ;)
    cholla and (deleted member) like this.
  8. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is their weakness, but why should non-Russian experts (choreographers) help Russian skaters to medal?
  9. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    The whole French team needs sports psychologists and this is not only for figure skating. :scream:

    My post was not about French teams. I am talking about the direction I hope Ilinykh/Katsalapov take and in general ice dance takes. The fact that Del/Schoes blew their chances several times and that Fabian is a headcase doesn't change this, their skating skills were still wonderful IMO. There is no rule that says skaters with good edges should make more mistakes. Actually it should be the contrary.
  10. Ajax

    Ajax New Member

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    Ugh, Zueva & Shpilband would snuff the sexy right out of I/K. :(
  11. cholla

    cholla Fearless Musher

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    ?? If it had been up to them and their coaches, they would still be in Moscow. Their words, not mine.
  12. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure of that. When V/M switched to S&Z, they were different from the other couples in that camp and I think they kept their individuality. They continued skating in a more mature way, are more balletic and tidier and Tessa even hasn't become skinny like Shpilband's other female skaters. So hopefully I/K can keep their individual style too.
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Zvorygina/Bernadowski are consulted by him.

    Sylwia Nowak is in Moscow with two Polish dance teams at the moment. I don't know with which coach she's consulting though.

    Remember that although very few foreign skaters work with Russian coaches full-time, loads consult with them. Will consultations also not be allowed? That surely can't be enforced, especially when it happens outside Russia (in which case, Russian state resources aren't used).

    Yep. Correct me with I'm wrong but haven't all the rinks built recently (where conditions are absolutely incredible) built entirely from public funds?

    Well if P/B are leaving for Krylova & Camerlengo, then this is a positive development, no?

    Zhulin is a decent coach but he has made some very bad program decisions IMO (P/B's last season's FD, I/K's this season's FD).

    As for I/K leaving to Shpilband and Zoueva, such decision would be very silly.

    And it's not just because I consider S&Z to be LUCIFER. As has been pointed out many times already, they have 34325436536 teams training with them.

    Two of those teams are World champions. One of those teams contains Marina's son. At least those three teams surely are going to be their priority.

    I/K are special talents and they deserve special attention.

    AMEN! :respec:

    Whilst you're obviously ironic, I definitely feel this way.

    If you replace "gimme 80s Madonna" with "gimme 80s Usova" and "gimme Banamarama" with "gimme Anissina," then this song shows perfectly how I feel about the current shocking state of Ice Dance:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_i8S05uUas

    DRAMA & mature expression > sickly sweet kids doing twizzles at 100kms per hour

    CoP has done wonders for Singles and Pairs IMO but in Ice Dance, whilst it results in huge technical advancement, the programs became what they are in singles: a series of technical elements.
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
  14. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Consultations will be allowed only if the Russian coach deliberately teaches his foreign student WRONG technique to sabotage said student's chances of beating any Russian rivals in Sochi. ;)

    :EVILLE:
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't think that Zvorygina/Bernadowski are exactly going to be rivals for any of the Russian dance teams :lol: so maybe nobody will mind them spending some time in Odintsovo. :p
  16. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    In one of the interviews translated, one of the big guns (don't remember whom) was saying that Morozov would be able to keep training Ando and Amodio, who are actually big threats to Russian skaters. So probably lots of other exceptions will be made.

    Or maybe the Russian Fed. believes that Morozov would prefer going abroad to dropping Miki.

    As for Amodio, they must have imagined he's not a threat because he's so stupid. Probably he'll be 5th after the Olympic SP, decide he doesn't have a chance for a medal and strip in the middle of the ice to show he isn't old-fashioned and is going to transform figure skating. And that time he shall get a deduction.
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I think that's the case.

    Morozov is the hottest coach in single skating at the moment (which makes me :rolleyes: but still :p) and if the Russian Fed really wants him, they must realise that they are going to make some concessions for him. I mean he could easily get a job in any other country, if he wanted to.

    Although I'd be really glad if they forced Fernandez to get another coach. :p
  18. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    well,I really hope Fernandez change coach as soon as possible...:p
  19. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    But he got 2 quads while under Morosov and is getting rather consistent with his effortless jumps.

    Style wise and politik wise he can definitely do better under a different coach, but Morosov is probably one of the best to guarantee consistency / results.
  20. Thais

    Thais New Member

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    Because non-Russian experts have the wisdom to see that, in the end, it's all about those amazing skaters that work really, really hard and not about their federation new politics.
  21. Ajax

    Ajax New Member

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    Yes but Zueva and Shpilband suck at choreographing anything sensual/sexy. Just look at V/M's dorky whitebread "Latin" choreo in their FD (And I say this as a huge V/M fan)
  22. Fashionista

    Fashionista New Member

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    He will.
  23. LadyGray

    LadyGray New Member

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    I read this and thought immediately of this ;)
  24. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    Isabel was very skilled from the knee down. Another story from the knee up.
  25. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Russia's got the post-Olympic blues before they've even started
    http://www.rusbiznews.com/news/n1050.html

    It's not sounding good, but a lot can change in 3 yrs.

    The pressure on I&K, V&T, Gachinski, Leonova, Makarova, et al must be enormous

    ETA: Russia signs multi-million dollar deal with Gazprom to prepare team for Sochi 2014
    http://www.insidethegames.biz/olymp...l-with-gazprom-to-prepare-team-for-sochi-2014

    They're certainly throwing enough money at it. It worked for Canada.
  26. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Somewhat ot: I have never understood why more top flight skaters haven't used Raphael,
    especially since the Kween used him. As far as I know Mao was his last and that was seasons ago. Also diffiuclt to understand how Morosov juggles so may skaters at a time and appears to do well by them.
  27. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    ....

    Now I have to know...

    What did Australia beat Russia at? :lol:
  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    All of Austrailias golds and medals were in snowboarding but Russia won a gold in snowboarding as well.
  29. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Ah, I suspected as much!
  30. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

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    Nikolai Morozov, in the US at least, had coaches that assisted him. Those coaches would do much of the training of the skaters, and Morozov would direct it, and do some of the training as well. All of the coaches in the "Morozov camp" basically taught in a style compatible with that of Morozov.
  31. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

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    That is not true. The Chinese pairs teams and their coaching staff, once the teams were at a certain level technically, came to the US to learn western styles of makeup, hair, costumes, music, and choreography. There were US coaches and etc. helping out.
  32. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    My understanding was that they seeked help from outside only when they were very near to the top. The most of the job (from nothing to near to the top) was done with them being closed to extrenal world.
  33. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    I read that Zhao trained in Russia early on, before he teamed with Shen.