RSF forcing Russian coaches to coach only Russians until Sochi

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Ajax, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    Yeah, sure. And this championship just proved your point that event in Russia equals judging scandal.:rolleyes:
  2. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm a fan of the sport not which country the skaters are from. Some of the fans on here I'm not so keen on because of their ill will towards some skaters (depending on the country the skaters are from) however. I think the RSF's decision will make more people just go :rolleyes: at them than think they are doing the right thing.

    Oddly enough, majority of the Rachael hate comes from their own countrymen, likewise with the Alissa hate in the past. This being said though, I was honestly shocked and very appalled by some of the comments in the freedance thread last night. Some of those people should be very ashamed of what they were saying. I lost much respect for a couple of posters who I'd had respect for in the past. Some of it was (sort of)friendly jibing, but some was just nasty.
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  3. equatorial

    equatorial New Member

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    You should read some Russian FS boards where Russian posters bash Russian skaters left, right and centre :lol: Nowhere does Rachel hate come even close to that.
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  4. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    This new development has nothing to do with Zoueva/Shpilband. Shpilband would not even be a Russian citizen, since he defected to the USA during Soviet times. Not sure about Zoueva, but isn't she Canadian?

    Russian skating is mainly funded by taxpayers' money. If I understand correctly, this rule concerns Russian coaches who receive a salary from the state, who use state or municipal facilities for free, whose successful students are funded and provided with free off-ice training, free lodging and other conditions that western skaters cannot dream of and who, as an extra source of income, take on foreign students. I understand that a state salary is not sufficient income for a top coach, but they also receive 30% of their Russian students' prize money, which wouldn't be the case with foreign students.

    As for Morozov, he doesn't strike me as the charitable type, nor the nationalistic type, so surely he went to Russia because he was offered very good conditions. He was offered those conditions to prepare Russian skaters to Sochi. He can't have everything.

    I'm sure no Russian coaches want to leave Russia until Sochi and this rule is valid only until then.
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  5. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Do you think because the competition is in Russia and if Russians don't like the result of an event (Like Plushy Vs Lysacek case ), Russians will create a huge scandal?, since support of local media is equally important, if not Plushenko would be walking around with a joint gold medal as well.
  6. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Ha, I know right. Also, in comparison to some other online sports forums, this place is positively tame. Not that I'm saying this is a good or bad thing.
  7. Gil-Galad

    Gil-Galad Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. Daugavpils is rather close to Russia (100km from the border I believe), lots of people speak Russian there - but it is still Latvia and therefore European Union. The question is if Morosov really wants to stay there or if he has / had any plans to move to Russia fromt there.
  8. englishman

    englishman Banned Member

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    thats cool , thank you dude !
  9. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :lol: :lol:
    Of course Shpilban and Zueva will favour a russian team. They have Khokhlova and Andreev, and he is Zoueva's son, so it would be surprising if this team wasn't high at her priority list. This year this team was only trying to gel, so the results were not there yet, but within a year I would expect Andreev to be unrecognisable.
  10. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    To be honest I think that's just common sense. Who knows how many potential OGMs are skating around unable to afford top-notch coaching in Western countries, while kids who are rubbish but have loaded parents get all the attention? I like the concept of anything that gives young athletes the same opportunities, regardless of $$$.

    I once saw a girl - about 14 - who had the most incredible innate feel for skating that I'd ever seen. She was one of my coach's other students. She had six lessons, and in those six lessons she had things down pat smoothly that I'd been working on for months. After the sixth lesson, she left and I never saw her again. Not because she lost interest. In fact, having spoken to her several times, the ice was her real passion. She left because her family couldn't afford it. The six lessons were her birthday/Christmas present. Her parents simply could not afford the $$$ for her to keep skating. And yet there are kids at my rink who are still on the same basic stuff that they were six months ago and frustrate their coaches enormously, but they keep coming back because the parents are loaded.

    *

    I must say, I'm doing a lot of this: :rolleyes: at all the "OMG russia will cause jduging skandal!!11!!" comments in this thread. Puh-lease. They're strengthening in every discipline in every way before the Olympics. And they're not about to throw THEIR home Olympics into disgrace by trying anything on the judges. It's likely they will be capable of winning medals on their own.


    Besides, people in this thread are acting like the Russians are the only ones who've ever manipulated judges...or did most of you not watch Skate Canada?
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  11. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
  12. kia_4EverOnIce

    kia_4EverOnIce New Member

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    I agree with the "if Frank Carroll left US for Russia, what would American be saying now?" argument

    yeah....just because with the Olympics in US there weren't any scandals? or with Vancouver last year (about Canadian men and pairs)? :rolleyes:


    :respec:

    exactly, if Russian Fed put on good offers that Russian coaches accept, and do the most helping their talents grow up and be ready for home Olympics, what's wrong? They're only doing a very good work, and preparing their team at best, as any Fed is supposed to do.
  13. Fashionista

    Fashionista New Member

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    It's official his new training base will be Novogorsk. He'll spend summer in the US and Latvia and then resettle in Moscow.
  14. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    It is just a gut feeling but i didn't say a WORD about this world championships so I have no idea what that means.
  15. Civic

    Civic New Member

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    When you take the king's silver, you have to abide by the king's rules. *If* Russian government funds are subsidizing Russian coaches salaries and the rinks they work in, then it's not unreasonable for the Russian government to decree that said coaches work only with Russian skaters going into Sochi. JMHO.
  16. Thais

    Thais New Member

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    The awakening of Russian interest in figure skating is a very good thing for this nation. It led up to a hole new generation of great skaters (I still can't believe how impressive the Russian dance couples are). However, I don't think Russian choreographers are what they used to be. I look at the north American dancers and they all have a different approach to ice dancing, one that is so different from the Russians. I know Zoueva and Shpilband are/were Russian, but they've built a style that is completely different form the Russian style. Furthermore, north American and non-Russian choreographer, in general, have shown new and better ways of expression on ice.

    In my opinion, the weakest point of Russian skaters is choreography and the next step (IMO), in order for Russia to have a powerful team at Sochi, is to have more non-Russian experts involved in the training process of their athletes.

    I'm a huge fan of Russian skating and I would hate to see all these amazing skaters stuck in another era, which is what will happen if they don't open themselves to a more up-to-date and less classical approach. It's time for something different even for Russian skaters.
    This is why I believe that this new policy of close doors will isolate the Russian athletes and, in the end, will only harm them.
  17. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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    From Piseev interview:

    The translation here
  18. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Closing doors does not seem to hurt Chineese pair skaters. they have built their pair program from nothing, without any influence of the experts from other countries.
  19. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    There are plenty of great and successful under COP Russian choreographers- Tcherneshov, Petukhov, Morozov, Krylova, Zhulin, Platov,Tarasova etc. The problem is that some coaches, like Mishin, feel that they know enough about choreography.
    I would hate to see 100s of "North American" style clones on ice just because Zuevas and Wilsons are "IT choreographers" for some fans and judges. The beauty of this sport is in diversity and differences.
  20. Andrushka

    Andrushka New Member

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  21. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    I'm wondering if Russia would even allow passports for its top coaches. No passport - no chance to travel. Shades of USSR days when 'untrusted' coaches wouldn't even accompany their students to int'l events. Hope not.
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  22. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Ahhh...very soon Morozov will have to sing this tune:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOifaUXPk4g
  23. Ajax

    Ajax New Member

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    Didn't S&Z have to work with Lori Nichol in order to become more expressive in their performances?

    quiqie, thanks for the translation. It's interesting that the Russian Fed wont' object to Amodio or Ando but no mention is made of Fernandez.
  24. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    It looks to me as if Morozov has made deal with RSF. They will allow him to keep Amodio and Ando and in return he will teach the skaters Russian federation sends to him. Compromise.
  25. goldberry99

    goldberry99 New Member

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    I think these situations can work out to be positive or negative for the skaters depending on the individuals involved.

    Positive: Shpilband's camp of B/A, V/M, & D/W all spoke about how the competitive environment inspired them and pushed them to be better skaters.

    Negative: Grishuk/Platov and Krylova/Ovsiannikov with Linichuk, Yagudin and Plushenko with Mishin. One skater left at least partly because they believed the coach was not giving them enough attention or helping their competitor.

    Now B/A did leave Shpilband, but they chose to do so after having a positive experience for many years, and that's the point, that they can choose based on their needs. Skater/coach/training groups should be decided based on skater's needs which can be based on many things(personality, geography, maturity) other than skill and qualification.

    It shouldn't be decided for them one way or the other. If Russian Skater A would benefit from training with non-Russians and Skater B would benefit more from 100% of a coach's attention, they should find coaching situations to fit them.

    If the Russian Federation's top priority was improving their skaters you'd think their motto would be "Whatever Works."
  26. MorganaLefay

    MorganaLefay Active Member

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    This will be very bad for I/K--they needed P/B there!
  27. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    There are reports that I/K are leaving Zhulin anyway. So no damage I can see.
  28. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Really? :confused: Where are they going?
  29. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    That is the biggest intrigue next year. There are some hints in the latest Pisseev's interview;)
  30. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if I&K will be going to Shpilband?
  31. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto New Member

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    That's my guess too. esp. since Piseev said that P/B will be replaced by americans and canadians... wow
  32. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    It would get there quite crowded. They have already at least 6-8 senior teams...

    V&M, D&W, S&S, C&Z, S&B, Tobias/Stagniunas, K&A, Lichtman/Copely...
  33. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    There are plenty of other coaches besides S/Z. But Ilinykh already has positive Canton experience.
  34. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    There are? :eek:
  35. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    LOL. I would rep you if I could:)
  36. smartblade

    smartblade New Member

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    Don't forget that marina zueva's son Fedor Andreev is now skating with former world medalist Jana Khoklova! and they will be representing Russia next year, and they did place 4th at the russian nationals.
  37. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    What's the point in insisting Russian coaches concentrate on Russian skaters, if then the most promising young ice dancers are sent to coaches who have a whole campful of foreign students? :confused:

    I/K will be Shpilband/Zoueva's number 4 priority at the very best. But from Piseev's words, it does seem like a done deal. :(

    I'm devastated if it is. I was so looking forward to I/K and now they'll probably just be another S/Z team.

    So at least let Zhulin work with Pechalat/Bourzat. I thought they were being ousted to make place for I/K?
  38. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

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    That's what makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever - why boot P&B and send I&K to a coach who has at least 8 other teams, anyway?
  39. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    The one thing I like about S&Z is that IMO they treat all of their teams as if they were #1. For any other coaches the Shibutanis would have been way down on the priority list and the coaches would have been thrilled with a top 12 finish. But Zoueva said that they were training them (and politiking I'm sure!) as if they were contenders for the world podium. And then they were! I also always got the sense that they honestly were fine with either D&W or V&M winning, as long as they were #1 and 2. Both teams are given programs that S&Z honestly believe suit their strengths best. It's very different from Linichuk with Domshabs and B&A, IMHO.

    They just want medals. They would train I&K in a manner conducive to winning them and choreograph programs that will get them the points they need. Then it would be up to I&K to follow through.

    Maybe I&K could go to them for a year or two, learn all the technique, win medals, and then move on to a voidier coach? Or Shpilband would let them use an outside choreographer? Yeah, I know... never gonna happen. :(
  40. bek

    bek Guest

    I would imagine that if S/Z don't produce results with I/K that the Russian fed will move them, and then S/Z will also have a p***d of Russian federation after them too.

    Besides perhaps S/Z know very well that the Russians are going to do their darndest to get a contendor by Sochi in dance, and they do have the talent to make it happen. So if this case, why not have them coaching said team. This being said I can't help wonder how the Canadians/US will feel about S/Z taking on I/K.

    I don't know why they couldn't consider other coaches though. Its not like S/Z are the only coaches in the history of the sport who have created Olympic Champs.

    And who knows maybe Igor will play to I/K's more voidy/European style.