RSF forcing Russian coaches to coach only Russians until Sochi

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Ajax, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. Ajax

    Ajax New Member

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    It has been discussed in the Worlds forum that the RSF has stipulated that Russian coaches who live in Russia cannot coach non-Russian students in the run-up to Sochi. Assuming this is true, who does it affect? The only people I can think of are Pechalat/Bourzat and Morozov's students. Any idea where these people would go? I really do not see Amodio or Ando leaving Morozov, and I'm surprised that Morozov actually agreed to this condition. The RSF must have paid him a buttload of money.

    Are any other skaters/coaches affected by this rule?
  2. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    Pechalat/Bourzat were leaving in any case but train with another Russian coach who fortunately does not live in Russia, Krylova.
    The only ones affected are Morozov's students.
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    If that's true, it's shocking. Welcome back to Soviet Russia. :rolleyes:

    Russian skating BENEFITS from having those skaters. Imagine being a young Ice Dance team training with Pechalat/Bourzat every day.

    There are a lot of skaters, representing the former Soviet Republics, which would be affected.

    Out of the better known skaters:
    Pechalat/Bourzat
    Cappellini/LaNotte
    Javier Fernandez
    Florent Amodio
    Miki Ando
    other Morozov skaters
    Cornfed likes this.
  4. pp55

    pp55 Member

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  5. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    No kidding. :wall: How exactly do they plan to enforce this? Trip to the Gulag?
  6. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone post a link (and maybe a translation) to any sources for this?

    Elene Gedevanshvili has just started training with Morozov (or is just about to do so). It seems unlikely that Morozov would take her on as a new trainee under these circumstances, unless the plan is for them to leave Russia again.

    I have been wondering about how Javier Fernández and Florent Amodio feel about training together now that they are both podium contenders at Euros and in the Top Ten at Worlds. Even if the Russian Federation will let Morozov train them, it's possible that one of them (Fernández, I would think) would want to go somewhere else.

    Elena Tchaikovskaia is one of the coaches the Belarussian ice dance couple Lesia Valadzenkava & Vitali Vakunov. I suspect there are a few others in similar circumstances.
  7. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    The Russian fed is looking increasingly desperate. I think Sochi is going to backfire on them big time, except in pairs (at least I hope the Russian pairs don't get f*cked over).

    I hope they at least drop that rule after Sochi. Many of the coaches will choose "No Russians" over "only Russians" and then you will get another Marina/Igor situation. And I agree that training alongside skaters such as P&B is helpful to the young generation of Russian skaters.

    I'd rather they try carrots instead of sticks: create a supportive and comfortable environment for any Russian coaches who wish to repatriate, and perhaps offer financial incentives to lower level coaches to coach Russians only, so that way they never leave in the first place.
  8. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    Well, they have point though. If you use state resources and asked to advance country sport, it is reasonable expectation to not waste his/her time and attention on competition.
    Otherwise state in Hackensack and do whatever the hell you want.
  9. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder what Ando will do. I wonder if she's still taking next year off? Perhaps she will return in 2013 with a new coach?

    Isn't it confirmed that Amodio is leaving?
  10. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    didn't Elene G just move to Morosov? This doesn't make sense.
  11. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I guess the Russian fed can make an exception for her. It's not like she's a threat to anyone. :p
  12. pp55

    pp55 Member

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    From the article:

  13. bek

    bek Guest

    Yes but will these type of rules really encourage some of the coaches to move back? And they need some of those coaches to work with other skaters. I must say in the coaching department its not like its really been a too way street. With Russian skaters benefiting from foreign coaches. And I do wish some of their skaters would get other choregraphy. (Sure though some of the coaches benefited from working with America)

    This being said it really is kind of a fair point if your going to be taking money from us, and using resources, then you should focus on our skaters.
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Whilst this reasoning is definitely valid, it might backfire terribly when - as you said - coaches are going to get jobs in US, Canada or Europe.

    But yes, let's remember that a lot of public money is being invested in skating in Russia.

    pp55 - Thank you very much for that article link.
  15. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    I agree that some not-to-be-named Russian skaters could benefit from Lori Nichols or David Wilsons. But Russian training system is different and I hardly imagine that scenario when Mishin or Moskvina would allow such collaborations. Besides, there is an abundance of great choreographers in Russia, such as Cherneshov, Petukhov, Krylova and so on. I just wish Tchaykovskayas of Russian Figure Skating could just retire already and give way for younger and creative coaches and choreographers.

    However, Voitsekohskaya's article reads to me as pure speculation rether than fact. She is also known to stretch the truth.
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Tom Dickson choreographed Lutai's programs for last season.

    But this was probably the only time I've seen a foreign choreographer work for a Russian skater.
  17. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    And where is Lutai now?:lol:
  18. bek

    bek Guest

    Perhaps a better compromise would be you can work with non Russians, but no non Russian that is a real threat to our current stars. For example, no Tarasova you can't take Mao when she may be a threat to Adelina or Tuktamysheva.

    I really don't think thats completely unfair.

    I mean in fairness I actually can understand why the Russian Federation IS frustrated. Weren't all but one of the top 10 dance teams at the Olympics coached by Russian/Soviet trained coaches. Asada/Ando have used Russian coaches for awhile. Arakawa having Russian coaches. While it was a help for sure being able to have skaters train in America, its not like the rest of the world has been so generous with their coaches for Russian skaters, or the Russians have used them.

    I DO wish the Russian singles skaters would use some foreign choregraphers.
  19. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    It doesn't have to be so severe ;) Just don't hand out any visas.
  20. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I know, I was being :drama:. But still, it's an extreme measure.
  21. Nmsis

    Nmsis Well-Known Member

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    No, it isn't.

    In this article, Gailhaguet is saying that, with the new policy of the russian fed, Florent won't be training full time with Morozov and that he has negociated a kind of part-time collaboration.

    And in this article, there is the same thing from Gailhaguet and a quote from Morozov stating he wants to go on working with Florent, that he is an independant coach and that nobody can tell him what he can or cannot do.


    :shuffle:
  22. bek

    bek Guest

    What do the Russians have to be desperate about though. They have rebuilded their pairs program with more depth than anyone. They have a ton of young Wonderbaby jumpers, and given how the Ladies are skating right now...They have a lot of talented young dance skaters-and then Artur.

    The thing is it depends. I know a famous Ukranian gymnastics coach joined the Russian gymnastics coaching team. Because he was promised not only boat loads of money (money he could make anywhere) But he was also promised something else that was equally important to him.-We will fund like we did in Soviet times.

    I mean if the Russian federation is promising to rebuild a system similar to Soviet times- we will pay you Western like $ to train the talented kids, no matter if their parents can $ or not.

    Well that's an attractive carrot. Because coaches want to win. And I get the feeling from reading Rodnina etc that a lot of the Russian coaches do feel that a system that is based on getting training based on talent/ ability, vs paren'ts money is the one more likely to have success.

    So it depends.
  23. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    If the Russian fed would like to have Zoueva/Shpilband back, this is no way to entice them. Why should they give up their lucrative careers and drop the top ice dancers in the world just to return to Russia and train whomever the RFSF gives them for the next 3 years? I doubt Russia could pay them enough for that.
  24. Fashionista

    Fashionista New Member

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    Lori Nichol choreographed T/M's programs.
  25. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    Zoueva/Shpilband have no desire or possibility to return to Russia even if Russia entice them.
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Good point, totally forgot about them. :)

    Is it confirmed that Pechalat/Bourzat are going to Krylova & Camerlengo?

    If it's true, I am absolutely ecstatic!

    They are super creative and did wonders with Weaver/Poje.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  27. bibi

    bibi New Member

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    aren't Morozov students training in Latvia ? If so, it would not affect them right?
  28. woodstock

    woodstock New Member

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    I think this decision from the RSF, and showing their desperation, only proves one thing....the points system has somewhat successfully eliminated bribery and favoritism among the judges. I may not care for a lot of aspects of the points system, but it most definitely seems to award quality of the performance the night of the competition. So many decades of dominance in pairs and dance, to barely winning any world/oly medals-all within one decade of the removal of 6.0, even with RSF still pouring $$ and support into their skating programs.
  29. millipied

    millipied New Member

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    I think it's been pointed out by many that the reason for the draught in Russian FS talent is the collapse of Soviet training system, infrastructure and subsequent departure of most coaches to the West. RSF started to pour money into sport only after they won Sochi Olympics, which is one year. Also if you look closely all those quality successes under COP are still accomplished with Russian coaching. At least in Dance.
  30. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I think it was a successful Worlds medal-wise when you consider that their team is extremely young and inexperienced.

    There was not a lot of money poured into skating until relatively recently.
  31. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    That theory would only work if you contend that the current Russian skaters are of the same level as those past medal winners like G&P, K&O, K&P, U&Z, M&D, G&G, B&S, T&M, Plushenko, Urmanov, Yagudin Slutskaya...
  32. Jessica

    Jessica Active Member

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    I don't know about Zoueva but isn't Shpilband now an American citizen?
  33. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Meanwhile, Zoueva is a Canadian citizen. :)
  34. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Pile On!! No but seriously have Russians vanished from being part of successful skaters careers? No they are every where!! Ladies gold Russian coach. All dance medalists Russian coaches. The ones with the most talent were the most likely to paid highly to leave and they did-FAST!!
  35. Made4Dancin

    Made4Dancin New Member

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    I must be stupid. I love the Olympics because everyone from around the world comes to play together. I have never cared how many medals the US wins. As a fan of figure skating, my favorite skaters were always chosen based on who they are and their talents and abilities not what country they come from. So when I hear about stuff like this I just think it's silly.

    However, if Russia is trying to repatriate it's coaches I would take it seriously. Meaning, if I were a foreign athlete, I wouldn't trust a Russian coach now. Just as coaches manipulate their athletes to win, they can do the opposite too.
  36. risto1803

    risto1803 Active Member

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    Many Russian skaters have said that they learn a lot from their training mates from other countries (I/K from P/B, Voronov from the others in Morozov's group). However, the ones that should be concerned are the top non-russian skaters training with top russian skaters; I wouldn't trust the russian coaches in that case-I'm convinced they will give more support to the russian skaters when the Olympics come (examle: Linichuk with D/S and B/A). I only see one such case: P/B and I/K, and I expect actually the French Federation to pressure P/B to leave Zhulin (and there are already rumors about this).

    The Russian Federation can't say anything to Shpilbin and Zueva but they would like a top Russian dance team to train with them-and probably some team will move to S/Z after this season. However, I have the feeling that the Russian Federation would expect in that case S/Z to favor the Russian team over D/W,S/S, V/M, which probably won't happen.
  37. bek

    bek Guest

    The Russian federation was hardly able to pour money in the 90s. The program faced a huge exodus of coaches etc, and I frankly don't blame the Russians if they are just a bit bitter about it. If Frank Carroll moved to Russia and started coaching mainly Russians, while American kids weren't being trained, I bet Americans would be bitter. This being said I don't blame the Russian coaches, because they did have families to support etc. And Moskvina moving to the US allowed Russia's top talent to get the training necessary. As another poster said your theory only works if the Russian skaters in Vancover were as good as the Russian skaters of the past-and well they weren't. Yes figure skating can be corrupt and the Russian fed is corrupt, but I don't think anyone can argue that a lot of those Russian champions were amazing.

    And second what do the Russians have to be desperate about. They were going to have a rough time given the circumstances. But frankly they are bouncing back remarkably well. Of all the figure skating federations, they are the federation who least needs to be desperate.

    In pairs-they are hardly "barely medaling" anymore when they just placed 3 teams in the top 5. They have a ton of young talent in pairs too. In dance, yes right now they aren't medaling. But they have a lot of extremely talented young teams. They dominated juniors this year. I don't know if they will have gold by Sochi, but THEY will be in the mix in dance soon.

    In Ladies-they have a ton of young talent.

    Mens-well that's hardly great, but they did just get a medal.
  38. aliona22

    aliona22 New Member

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    Does Gorshkov have any non-Russian teams besides Hoffman/Zavozin?
  39. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Good point about Frank Carroll where supposedly coaching in Russia, posters here would show us a long list of how much money USFSA spent in success of Frank's coaching ... also on that note, i would like to examine the anger of some of the posters on GSD on GE sponsoring Chinese FS team.

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78607.

    \Here, GE is being heavily criticised for sponsoring Chinese team and helping a FS team quote '' funded by communist sports machine''. Yet then they should also criticise GE for trading with China as well. We would like your yuans but we will not spend any profit in your country.

    I can see where Russians are doing, argument being we are funding you heavily, so you must coach just our athletes. However the decision is lunatic, they are just mad in doing that since they are not winning any friends. and may even cause some coaches to leave the country.
  40. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    I think Sochi is going to have tons of potential for huge scandals. I think the Russian fed will stop at nothing to dominate and we could see some gigantic judging scandals. Just a feeling.