Rivals from same country where national judges preference differs from international

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Seerek, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Sorry, how many seconds they showed that Russian guy that dagmaged Plushenko's reputation in western society? :lol:I think I've seen that video, if you didn't keep reminding everyone, I don't think lots of people even noticed that. The media always wants drama, when Brian Orser and Brian Boitano competed, there were tons of drama about the Battle of the Brians. There's a comment on Youtube says: "US ****er judge gave 5.7???". That's about Yagudin's Olympic sp performance, he received the lowest mark and the only 5.7 from the US judge. Actually Yagudin's wild bad boyish personality is contradict to NA value, he was constantly criticized for his careless behavior at the time.

    The politics, I think it's not just about who they like, I have a feeling the RF don't really care about athlets, that's why when Plushenko showed a little bit attitude in 2010, they dinged him without any reluctant. But the people from his team helped him to repair the relationship with RF. Politics is also about those power that be behind those athletes. RF has a long history of competition between St. Petersburg and Moscow. Yagudin left Mishin and went for Tarasova, made his case more complicated than Kulik. Tarasova and Kulik's former coach had a good relationship, and they both from Moscow. Yagudin's from St. Petersburg and went to a coach from Moscow, Tarasova and Mishin weren't that friendly towards each other at the time. All those things made Yagudin a traitor and lost the support from St. Petersburg. Yagudin was a bad Russian boy in NA and a traitor from Russia combined, no body beat him on that matter. :hat1:
     
  2. theshrew

    theshrew New Member

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    How many world titles did Yagudin win when he was 13, 15, 16, 17? None. Exactly as many as Plushenko.
     
  3. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I agree with what you said, but your logic is interesting
     
  4. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I think, that is very logical
    Yagudin's first world champion title, 1998 he was 18- Plushenko was 15, (he won bronze)
    Yagudin's second world champion title, 1999-Plushenko was 16, (he won silver)
    Yag's third w champ title 2000-Plu was 17( he was 4th, that was the one time when he was out of the podium, but he was first at ECH)
    Plushenko's first w champ, 2001 he was 18- Yagudin was second...

    Would you have expected from the kid Plush to defeat one of the best skaters ever???? That isn't too much glory overcome a 15, 16, 17-year old kid .... or was it a great glory, great deed? Well, that is praises of the vanquished, not of the winner.

    Not to mention he beat Yagudin at 16, 17...;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  5. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Yagudin's performances at 1995 centennial and at 95 RN when he was 15, could beat himself at 1998 worlds, so 15 year old Yagudin could beat 18 year old Yagudin, Yagudin still is better than Plushenko :hat1:
     
  6. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Ok, you win..:lol::lol:
     
  7. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

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    Right on! This one was sooooooo painfully obvious.
     
  8. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Yes, Yagudin was just Plushenko's born enermy:hat1:
     
  9. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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  10. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    LOL!!!!!! :lol: 100% russian drama! Plushenko and Yagudin took figure skating to an unbelievable popularity, ISU should pay them a rent or something. :hat1:
     
  11. sadya

    sadya Active Member

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    Tanja Szewczenko was favored over Marina Kielmann during German Nationals, even after Kielman clearly outskated her. I like the skating of Szewczenko more, but her poor skate winning over Kielmann at Nationals was unfair.

    In the 50s-60s there were Joan Haanappel and Sjoukje Dijkstra in the Netherlands. Haanappel won nationals over Dijkstra again and again. International it was different. I can't remember what happened exactly, as I read about them many many years ago in an out of print biography of Dijkstra.

    When is it National preference and when is it simple a case of a better performance at Nationals than at Worlds? And perhaps some countries traditionally like certain traits in skaters better than other countries. Interesting topic.
     
  12. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Ryan Bradley always seemed to be appreciated more by US judges. He was National champ in the US but never was close to the top 10 at worlds. His rivals seemed to do better at worlds
     
  13. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    You over estimated their influence and over estimated Yagudin's popularity in north America. Not a lot of people cared about two Russians. The one drama that really caused the unbelievable popularity of figure skating was Kerrigan/harding drama.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  14. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Ciocio talked about the whole world..Do you think, only N-A is exist?
     
  15. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I don't know what she/he talked about, only you know. And yes, there's only NA on the planet. :hat1:
     
  16. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Of course I also don't know what she/he talked about, but I know how big was the craze for both of them everywhere.

    well, yesterday I started to like you...I was wrong..:p
     
  17. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Russian judges and federation think Slutskaya is better than Slutskaya but international judges think Butyrskaya is the better skater.

    U.S judges think Kwan is an untouchable god but international judges think Lipinski, Cohen, and Hughes can challenge and sometimes beat her.

    U.S judges think Zawadszki is a good skater but international judges think she sucks, even when she skates well. International judges think Gao is a good skater, but U.S judges and USFSA think she is nothing.

    International judges think Mitchell is a really good skater but U.S judges think he is nothing.
     
  18. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    Yes, everybody heard about Kerrigan and Harding, their story was very popular all over the world. In Europe and Japan Plushenko and Yagudin contributed a lot to the popularity of FS and they are still contributing. They have a lot of fans, they attend shows etc.
    I think right now there is only Japan on the planet, when it comes to FS. I hope we don't need a new Kerrigan vs Harding to bring back the popularity in N/A or even Europe.
     
  19. Triple Axel

    Triple Axel New Member

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    Okay. I adore Plushenko, and hope he wipes the ice with the 'babies' he will be skating against in Sochi (if he's well enough to make the team). However, THIS information is particularly UNFAIR! Yagudin's career came to a screeching halt when it was discovered that he had a malformation of the hip socket, and years of pounding quads on it didn't do him any favours. Sure, Plushenko has all those other medals since 2002 Skate America, where Yagudin skated last competitively. Had his body NOT betrayed him, I could have seen these two slugging it out for YEARS, perhaps both competing in Vancouver! So, if you TRULY want to compare them during both skaters competitive careers, cut out everything Plushenko did past that SA comp. Having one's career cut tragically short by catastrophic injury in NO WAY makes your accomplishments pale in comparrison to a skater who, (albeit has had his share of injuries) was able to continue in the sport. Just sayin'.
     
  20. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    No, if we want to compare them:
    Plushy and Yag at 13, 14, 15 y.o. and so on... to their Olympic Champion titles, they're not in the same age. Alexei competed 7 years among the seniors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  21. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Yagudin who was forced to stop competing in 2002 due to injuries is a 4 time World Champion and Olympic Champion. Plushenko who competed until 2010, and technically is still competing in fact, is a 3 time World Champion and Olympic Champion. If anything it is Plushenko's achievements that pale when you look at it that way. Yagudin had his career cut short by atleast 4 years of prime level skating, Plushenko skated over a decade longer, and Yagudin still has 1 more World and Olympic title.
     
  22. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but it's not as if Plushenko consistently competed every season after Torino. Post-Torino, he only came back in the 2009-2010 season and didn't compete at Worlds. He's coming back now, but he hasn't competed in any season prior to this season during this cycle. Then there's the fact that he opted to not skate in 2006 Worlds and had to withdraw from 2005 Worlds due to injury.
     
  23. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    He could finished the 2005 Worlds and won silver or bronze, but he didnt want to so chose to WD. Many people miss the post Olympic Worlds. So really he skated until 2006, plus another Olympics in 2010. Yagudin had to stop in 2002. Plushenko still has less World and Olympic Golds. Who is better skater one can debate (although I would say Yagudin by a ton there) but in achievements Yagudin did more than Plushenko as far as big titles in half the career, and Plushenko had a whole quad he got to own without Yagudin, while Yagudin had to face and beat Plushenko to win all his big titles and did so, while makes Plushenko even worse in the comparision.
     
  24. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    I blinked and missed Yagudin's second Olympic gold medal.
     
  25. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    Plushenko did not win those 100000000 world titles that you believe he should have for the same reason that forced Yagudin to retire: INJURIES. He is dealing with serious injuries since 2001 and his career was as good as it could be considering his health state. I doubt his objective ever was to surpass Yagudin's world titles (by the way Kurt Browning has 4 World titles too). He's not Terminator or something, jumping quads since 15 destroys the body, you know?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  26. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    I've missed it too and probably so did Yagudin.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  27. ciocio

    ciocio Active Member

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    You've missed my point, check the bold part. ;)

    Wikipedia:

    Alexei Konstantinovich Yagudin (Russian: About this sound Алексей Константинович Ягудин​ (help·info); 18 March 1980) is a former Russian figure skater. His major achievements in his six years of eligible sports career include being the 2002 Olympic Champion, a four-time World Champion (1998, 1999, 2000, 2002), a three-time European Champion (1998, 1999, 2002), a two-time Grand Prix Final Champion (1998-1999, 2001-2002), a World Junior Champion (1996) and a two-time World Professional Champion (1998, 2002).

    Evgeni Viktorovich Plushenko (Russian: About this sound Евге́ний Ви́кторович Плю́щенко​ (help·info), Yevgeny Viktorovich Plyushchenko; born 3 November 1982) is a Russian figure skater. He is the 2006 Winter Olympics gold medalist, 2002 Winter Olympics silver medalist, and 2010 Winter Olympics silver medalist, three-time (2001, 2003, 2004) World champion, seven-time (2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012) European champion, a four-time (1999-2000, 2000-2001, 2002-2003, 2004-2005) Grand Prix Final champion and a ten-time (1999–2002, 2004–2006, 2010, 2012–2013) Russian national champion.
     
  28. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Standings after the SP:

    1. Plushenko
    2. Abt
    3. Yagudin
    4. Anton Klykov (Who? :confused:)
    5. Alexei Vasilevsky (Who? :confused:)
    6. Klimkin
    7. Griazev
    8. Timchenko
    9. Serov

    http://www.fsonline.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=370&Itemid=456

    Judges' Technical scores for Yagudin: 5.2 5.1 5.2 5.2 5.1 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.2 Youtube video

    I can't find the judges' scores for Klykov or a video of his skate. Obviously, though, Serov was not in contention after the Short Program.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
    gkelly and (deleted member) like this.
  29. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  30. nikjil

    nikjil Active Member

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    U.S. Pairs: Urbanski/Marvel always were favored by U.S. judges at Nationals and then would place below Meno/Sand at Worlds.