Richard Dornbush performances

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by stevlin, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. stevlin

    stevlin Member

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    NBC did not show Richard Dornbush's short program and maybe they won't even show his long program. I am hoping someone video taped them and put them on you tube. I especially love his "cowboy" number. Thanks
     
  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    They will be on Icenetwork. Other than that, I don't know.
     
  3. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Dornbush skated a good FS, though his SP was horrid. His FS was the 5th highest of all the men, but he was so far back (17th) after the SP that even his high-scoring FS couldn't move him up that much.
     
  4. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I'd say that his FS was rated more highly by the judges than I would have rated it. The jumping passes were ok, not fabulous. But even discounting the jump issues, it was a performance that really lacked the spark and verve he had at nationals last year. His SP was awful, but his FS at Nationals didn't look hugely different to me than his FS looked in the fall. Not particularly the case that he had a fab fall and simply had one horrible day at Nationals.YMMV.
     
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  5. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I consider myself an uber (which is a first for me!), and he wasn't at his best but every element he executes to completion is of high quality - fast, centered spins, high, rotated jumps, speed, and he does get into character much better than most other US men (except Abbott). Perhaps, the judges were considering that.

    You have a point, though. Even I as an uber would've ended his season at Nats if I were a USFSA official, but if you look at the 4CC assignments, he's listed as an alternate. The USFSA loves him obviously.
     
  6. stevlin

    stevlin Member

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    I just wish someone would put Ricky's sp and fp on you tube. I can't do a pay for skate right now.
     
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ricky is a talented skater -- he just had a rough season. Perhaps he felt a lot of pressure coming into 2011-2012 season being touted as the "highest scoring US man at 2011 Worlds." That really didn't mean much IMO, b/c both Ross and Ricky skated well at 2011 Worlds but were low-balled in the scores. I tend to believe that the pressure combined with training and competing the quad this season may have thrown off Ricky's timing and confidence. Hope he comes back strong next season. Ricky's fp from 2010-2011 was extraordinarily good b/c it highlighted his strengths combined with good music and wonderful choreography. It might serve Ricky well if he could rework his current sp into a fp, or keep his current sp for next season and look for interesting music to craft a new fp that can highlight his strengths in the way that his Sherlock Holmes program accomplished. It seemed to help Ross that he kept his sp from last season and found dramatic music and good choreo for a new fp.

    Unfortunately, Ricky might have been better served by USFS showing their support and belief in him in another way, and simply allowing Armin to compete at 4CC as a reward for his great showing at Nats. I was impressed by Armin's decision to switch coaches late in the season, and by how well he competed at Nats, especially in the sp when he had to follow Jeremy Abbott. Armin was able to rise to the occasion and use the energy in the arena to his advantage.

    I feel the U.S. men have such great depth, and it is unfortunate so many talented U.S. men can not compete at Worlds. It is too bad that so much emphasis has been placed on the quad, sometimes to the exclusion of rewarding well-rounded athleticism and artistry. I believe this is a problem b/c the sport did not have the vision to really examine how the quad would impact the men's field -- that it wouldn't simply evolve as a matter of course -- that it was a hugely difficult element to incorporate for many skaters -- that its impact would be felt in many ways through injuries, through affecting for many skaters the rhythm and technique of their other jumps, as well as the endurance factor of performing quads. A lot of these issues should have been addressed sooner. There was a need for clear and definitive guidelines to be set, instead of fluctuating back and forth on the importance of including quads.
     
  8. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    ^ Well said, aftershocks. I'm no "techie," but Ricky had a great comeback in the free skate. Anyone can have a tough performance/tough season(s). Never count him or anyone else out!

    re: 4CC, as much as I like Ricky, I do wish Armin had been given the opportunity to compete there.
     
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ITA paskatefan! Ricky came back well at Nats in his fp. I think he had a really good sp this season too which in some respects I like more than his fp this season (although both were pretty good). One of the difficulties for Ricky this season may have been how much time it took to develop both programs. His original sp to Tennesse Ernie Ford's 16 Tons, as I recall, was scrapped for his revamped sp to classical music (Beethoven's Symphony No. 5). I really liked this new sp, but perhaps Ricky didn't have enough time to train it to the point where he was completely comfortable with it? And then during the course of the season, I believe Ricky and his coach made some adjustments to his fp too.

    As I said, it might serve Ricky well to hold onto this season's sp, and focus on finding something unique for a new fp that highlights his strengths and provides him with a challenge for further development and growth as a skater.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  10. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Were we watching the same thing? Ricky barely cracked 100 for that pitiful 4CC freeskate.
     
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  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Dornbush debuted the Beethoven SP (violin performance by David Garrett) at Skate America in October so I don't think training time was the issue. My feeling is that the music tempo may have been almost too frantic/fast, resulting in him rushing his jumps in the SP. ETA: Skate America was the closest he came to a "clean" SP in 4 attempts this season (70.03) - he landed all his jumps but received < on his 3A and 'e' on his 3F.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  12. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    OMG, don't let caseyedwards read this, she'll implode!!!! :lol:

    Seriously, totally agree all around. Unfortunately, the winning men's program at the Vancouver Olympics ignited the quad controversy yet again (mostly due to griping on the part of the second-place finisher, but that's old news/old threads). My big gripe about COP is that we're seeing the death of the truly well-rounded program. The quad back and forth is frustrating as are many aspects of COP (remember when we had ladies skaters who actually tried to include all the triples save perhaps axel in their programs and who did beautiful spins instead of ugly but difficult position spins, etc. to rack up points?). There needs to be some balance achieved somewhere instead of pushing skaters to risk injury or all programs starting to look very cookie cutter instead of unique.
     
  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    My bad re the reference that Ricky came back strong at 4CC. (Thanks -- I will edit) :)

    Thanks for the points you made too Sylvia re Ricky's sp debut, etc.

    Completely agree with your points Yazmeen. That's why programs like Jeremy's and Dai's this season (I like Adam's programs too, esp. his sp) are such standouts for their gorgeous choreo and presentation that overcome the strictures and limitations of IJS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
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  14. Yukari Lepisto

    Yukari Lepisto Active Member

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    Does anyone think he might change coach?
     
  15. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I almost didn't want to bring it up. He and Tammy seemed to have good chemistry. He has good technique [for the most part], speed and musicality, and he's been with her since the beginning. So, I would think she gave him that good technique. On paper, the relationship looks good.

    However, who knows? Maybe she a Priscilla Hill type; 'big sister' or 'mom' personality, rather than a stern disciplinarian when necessary.
     
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Oh no! When all else fails, blame the coach??? Seriously, I don't know enough about Tammy Gambill and her coaching skills and her relationship with Richard, but I definitely would not presume to suggest that Ricky's problems this season mean he needs to switch coaches. When everything is peachy keen, the view is "What a great team they make," "What a wonderful relationship they have." As soon as the skater runs into problems with subpar performances, "Boy, that coach has got to go!" And, jeez, in the process of throwing Tammy out with the baby and the bath water, why cast negative aspersions on Priscilla Hill?!!!

    Again, what do I know? -- However, as I mentioned previously, perhaps it has been the pressure of coming back this season being touted as "a top U.S. men's skater" and also the difficulties of training the quad which may have thrown off Ricky's rhythm and confidence on all of his jumps.

    Looking on the bright side, I wish Richard and Tammy lots of good luck and a fresh perspective that will lead to renewed success. To Tammy's credit, she has additional young talent in junior skater, Philip Warren, who performed quite well at Nats winning the bronze medal in the Junior Men's event. :)
     
  17. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen Dornbush this season, but someone on another blog mentioned that it looked as if he were bigger this season. Maybe he has grown since last season? It doesn't take much to throw triples and quads off.
     
  18. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Young skaters are usually reliant on the coach to direct and call the shots. But even so, I wasn't blaming Tammy. My last post was more pontification about the situation.

    Didn't think about that. Hmmm. Maybe that's the issue.
     
  19. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Just rewatched his JGPF, Nationals and Worlds performances from last season. He was rock solid for the most part. Can't blame the USFS for giving him a chance after bombing the short program of Nationals 2012.

    However, now that he failed to validate the controversial decision to send him to 4CCs, I think the USFS will be very cautious about him come next season. Maybe he will still have a B assignment or even a GP if he regains his consistency during the fall season.
     
  20. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    This icenetwork article says he is 5'11" http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120118&content_id=26376792&vkey=ice_news. On his skater bio he is listed as 5'8", and on his isu bio the same (173 cm). If he has in fact grown 3 inches since last season that could definitely throw his timing off, especially because his jumps were never really "big" to begin with (he has good technique and they cover a lot of distance, but don't go UP as much as some of the other men's). He also looks broader/stronger through the upper body this season to me.
     
  21. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Really? 5-11? I thought Brian Boitano was that tall and Ricky doesn't look anywhere near Brian's height.

    IA about his physically 'bigger look'. At first, I thought it might be the change in costuming from the frumpy Sherlock Holmes garb to the sleeker cowboy outfit that was making him look bigger

    Anyway, he is going to be 21 this year. I assumed he's stopped growing so hopefully he can work through it. I really like him!
     
  22. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    Frumpy? Au contraire, I thought the Sherlock costume was very elegant. :)
     
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  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    errr. I think I used the wrong adjective. The 3-piece Sherlock Suit wasn't frumpy, but it made him look to me like he was even smaller than he was, for whatever reason. The black sleek cowboy get-up made him look bigger I guess because it was tighter? But if his height is taller than 5-8, maybe he did grow.

    Whatever it was, I want to see a rebound!
     
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    :sekret: Well I didn't think he looked 5'11" either but I was looking on his twitter and the day the article was released he tweeted:

    Richard Dornbush &#8207; @RichardDornbush
    Cool article a quick side not though, I am not 5'11" #SmallMistake #Puns web.icenetwork.com/news/article.j…

    So I guess that was a mistake on icenetwork and the hashtag would make it appear he isn't close to 5'11", so he's probably 5'8" still. At 20 it would be unusual to be growing taller still but filling out would be normal. My guess is that most of his problems this season were mental, not only was it his first senior season but there was a lot of pressure on him to carry the US men this season after winning the JGPF with that huge score, coming in 2nd at Nats, placing the highest of all the men at Worlds. And at the time Jeremy and Adam were both really struggling, Bradley retired and no one really expected much out of Ross. The combination of maturing into ones body and dealing with pressure is enough to throw even the toughest off their game....look at Sotnikova. I think Ricky will be back.
     
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ So, perhaps Ricky has been dealing with growing pains in addition to other pressures. I look forward to seeing what approach he and his coach will take for the new season. Ricky is an excellent skater, not to be counted out. Like Dick Button has said, "Everyone has to go through bad performances." It comes with the territory. Keep your head up and your "eyes on the prize" Richard.

    Wishing all the U.S. men the best of luck. The field is so deep and these guys are so talented. They all need more opportunities to grow and to shine.

    ETA--
    Really? I've always enjoyed Ross, and if you look at his skating and his results, you will see that he is a strong and consistent skater overall. Good strategy for Ross and his coaches to retain his sp from last season and work on making an impact with his fp. In fact, Ross skated better in the sp than Richard at last year's Nats too. I also felt there was not a huge difference between the quality of both Ross' and Richard's performances at Worlds last season. Of course, Richard made a stronger overall impact with his Sherlock Holmes fp, but I don't think a lot separates the talents of these two.

    In regard to Ross and Adam, I think Adam is clearly better in artistry and presentation (should not be as close as the judges' marks for PCS at 4CC would indicate). Ross however does appear at this point to be more consistent and confident than Richard and Adam. Obviously, they all have areas to improve on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Dbl post --
     
  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think you make some points. And I agree Ross is a strong skater, I was more just referring to when after Nationals last season, there was talk about him not even making it out of the QR or SP by some posters, which I thought was completely ridiculous, but some seemed convinced that his bronze at nationals was a fluke. He did a good job at Worlds and this season showing the naysayers that they were wrong and he really is the real deal.

    I agree that Adam is more elegant, but I sort of understand why he and Ross get comparable PCS internationally, for as beautiful a skater as Adam is, he has a tendency to skate a bit tentatively and stalk his jumps. Ross is not nearly as lyrical and does not have the same extension and sensitivity to the music that Rippon has, but he is always attacking, skates with speed, and doesn't ever seem to hold back, and I think those things help his PCS. If Adam could start attacking more I'm sure he'd PCS would improve so long as he lands the jumps.

    Ricky is probably just tired from the grueling season and needs some time to rest and regroup. From what I can tell on his twitter, he seems to be in good spirits. I believe he will be back next season and have some fight in him. Maybe he can get the quad consistent in the offseason as well. He probably felt a little guilty when he got named to 4CC over Armin, and then really psyched himself out there, knowing he was expected to deliver to prove Nationals had been a fluke, but then between competing right after nats and at a high altitude and dealing with all the pressure/disappointment/talk it was just too much, and he got distracted, explaining the uncharacteristic bomb.
     
  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ You make great points too, pinky166. I particularly enjoyed reading your assessment of why Ross receives PCS on a par with Adam internationally.

    Wishing the best for Ricky and all the men in the new season. USFS needs to make up the 4CC snub to Armin. However, Armin should just shake it off and concentrate on continuing to improve for next season, just as Ricky needs to set his sights on coming back strong.

    Oh, but first there is Jr. Worlds, and Worlds to look forward to this season. :)
     
  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why USFS didn't send Armin to the Challenge Cup? Idk if he has interest in going but you'd think they'd at least offer it to him as a consolation prize considering other US entrants are going.
     
  30. stevlin

    stevlin Member

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    I like Ricky Dornbush and I think he is quite cute. I hope he gets more confidence and skates to gold at next years Nationals.