Revisiting this particular controversy

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Aussie Willy, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    The Duchesnay's FD from 1988 Olympics was posted on the International Figure Skating Facebook page. So interesting to see it again. The judges were all over the place. But if you were looking at it from just a Program Component point of view these days, you cannot deny the choreography, interpretation and performance level were just amazing because they really captured a mood and feeling that struck such a strong chord with the audience. Not sure about the skating skills though because so much was on two feet, but then there was so much difficulty with the moves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQKawuklMDc
     
  2. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Some of the most interesting scoring ever going on here.

    Medalists were USSR, USSR, CAN

    Then you have D/D with these free skate rankings

    4th-USA
    5th-UK, France
    6th-Canada
    8th-Italy
    9th-Germany
    10th-USSR, Austria, Hungary
     
  3. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    The most interesting is that places didn't change from Compulsories to FD, except for 2 teams (PALIARD/COURTOIS and REHÁKOVÁ/HAVRÁNEK).
    Aaaaah, ice dance in the 80's !
     
  4. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    I never understand country hopping. They well out scored the other two Canadian teams. Did they really fear they wouldn't make it out of Canadian nationals? Seems highly unlikely!
     
  5. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    According to Wikipedia :)lol:) they placed 4th at the 1983 and 1984 Canadians. No competition results for 1984-85 season and then first at 1986 French Nationals. So it seems they made the decision to hop over to France after their second year of placing 4th at Canadians. I read elsewhere some time ago that the Canadian Federation criticized their skating so I can see why they thought they´d get more love in voidy France. There seems to have been an honest disagreement about what the rules of ice dance allowed or what ice dance should be.

    All that aside I thought they did a great job of coming up with interesting programs for a sibling team.
     
  6. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    ^Thanks:)

    It's hard to tell with wiki, because it says on the nats page that Johnson & Thomas retired after 84 so d&d moved up bronze in 85. I don't know what happened at worlds, but. They did out skate the Garrosinos in Calgary.

    It's also hard to tell with the judges. Did the us judge really love them, or was it a ploy to move them up to push someone else down, someone who was a threat to a us team. Hmmm lol
     
  7. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I think the judges were all over the place because D&D skated a completely different/new style and they did not know what to do with them. Also in ice dance those days a team had to pay their dues before getting high placements. In any case D&D never had top notch basic skating skills, so it was easy to mark them down, no matter how entertaining their performance was. A few years down the road the judges felt comfortable about them winning medals.
     
  8. Bronxfan

    Bronxfan Active Member

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    I agree that their free program was unusual, but what I consider a major crime is that they did not win the 2nd part of the competition in Calgary - I think they used to call this the Original Set Pattern (??). Their OSP was THE BEST of the night.
     
  9. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Canadian ice dance in the 1980s was full of politicks, probably more so than today, and then there were/are the tensions between the larger sections of Skate Canada vs. the smaller sections and how competitions should be structured to make them fair for everyone, tensions between the Anglophone and Francophone factions, etc. etc. Which the Duchesnays, skating out of Quebec and being bilingual, were sort of trapped in the middle of, through no fault of their own.

    IIRC the Duchesnays felt that they had been given a pretty clear message that the Garossinos were "the ones" that were going to be pushed for the Calgary Olympics (partly because the Garossinos were from Calgary). Also, at the time Skate Canada, or the CFSA as it was then, was trying to set up a national ice dance training centre in Toronto, and was "encouraging" all the top dance teams to move there. The Duchesnays were training in Ottawa, where their family lived and where they were both attending university, and refused to go to Toronto, which did not make them popular with the CFSA either. So even though skating for France brought along a whole different set of challenges, I think they and their family felt that they would have a better chance of international success with France than with Canada.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
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  10. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    Really and truly, their being left off the podium in 1988 should not be seen as controversial. As wonderful as they were and as much as I loved them (for the record, a lot) it was still clear that there was a big technical gap between them and the podium teams in 1988. He was carrying her in more ways than one....
     
  11. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    How do you pronounce their names? I always thought it was Douche-a-nays but the announcer said Douche-A-nees

    Pardon my use of the word douche. lol douche is pronounced like doosh
     
  12. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    He certainly was the stronger of the two. You can see at the end how exhausted he was from that program. Christopher Dean commented with all the crouching he did his legs really suffered during it.
     
  13. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    LOL, it's a french name : the sound "u" doesn't exist in english.
    Anyway, it's definitely more Douche-a-nays than Douche-A-nees !
     
  14. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    If they were from Quebec, why did their family live in Ottawa?
     
  15. Blair

    Blair New Member

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    They lived in the Aylmer sector of Gatineau, which is in Quebec, but just over the bridge to Ottawa.
     
  16. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    It was SO COOL, very unique and inventive. Commentator Toller Cranston loved it as well, calling it "a work of art."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEz1xYVO-aw
     
  17. Mevrouw

    Mevrouw living every minute

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    Pronounce the 'Du' like "pew" to begin, so then it's "Dew-Shenn-Ay". Syllables are almost equally accented.

    I've heard doo-SHANE-ee, doo-SHENN-ee and more.
     
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  18. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Even the judge who placed them highest still only had them 4th (a generous 4th, IMO). Their program was flamboyant and showy for the audience, but judges need to look at other things. Still, the Duchesnay's Calgary performances positioned them really well to move up to become contenders in the next quadrennium. The next year, Dean really worked on improving their skills and pushing them to more difficulty.

    IMO the dance crime of 88 was Klimova-Ponomarekeno not winning, made to wait their turn behind the painful to watch Besty-Buk.
     
  19. CynicElle

    CynicElle Well-Known Member

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    I'd forgotten how cool that free dance was. Thanks for the link!
     
  20. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO The Duchesnay's brought the void to ice dance. I loved all of their stuff up to 1991... I thought 1992 was a bust and that is a bummer. WSS just did nothing for me and I thought Usove & Zhulin should have won the silver there. Heck I would have Grishuk & Platov in 3rd over them too.

    I liked that they were so original and thought in 1988 they were robbed. Technically speaking, they were not as smooth as B&B, K&P, W&M and A&S but originality, musicality, interpretation they were amazing.
     
  21. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    I never understood why the judges wanted to keep Klimova & Ponomarenko behind Bestemianova & Bukin when the formers were so clearly superiour to the latter. I would've had B&B no higher than 3rd at the Calgary Olympics as technically W&M were also so clearly superiour to B&B.

    As for D&D, I couldn't stand their poor skating skills. At the 92 Olympics, they should've been off the podium altogether. My placements would've been Klimova & Ponomarenko in first, Grishuk & Platov in second, and Usova & Zhulin in third.
     
  22. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it was not so clear to the judges that these other teams were superior -- maybe they were prioritizing different technical skills than you are.
     
  23. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    From what I saw, B&B were relatively weak technically while both K&P and W&M skated with far superiour content in both the steps and handholds and better edge quality. From what I remember of B&B, their garish expression was a very obvious attempt to overcompensate when they lack technically. I thought B&B should've been no higher than 3rd in 1986, 1987, and 1988. But that's just me.
     
  24. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    I tend to agree, but I will say that B&B had some :kickass: CDs back in the day. Their 1988 kilian CD was to die for, incredibly deep edges and perfect unison.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y3do9T5SoI
     
  25. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was going to post.
    It's not difficult to understand why B&B were first. They were so superior at compulsories. And if you watch the rankings, the places were the same for almost every team from compulsories to fd.
    Anyway, I don't particularly like K&P, and think B&B were superior.
     
  26. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    K&P also had a dreadful FD in 88 IMO (Beatles muzak) and most years in that quad. The only FD I liked from that era was their Hungarian Rhapsody, which was in either 86 or 87. It was a shame because they had some wonderful exhibition programs from that time, so it wasn't like they weren't capable of good programs. I felt like they started to really hit their stride in 89 with their Mack the Knife program, which was dance-y without being as generic as their 85-88 programs.
     
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  27. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    I blame Dubova. :p

    (Hungarian Rhapsody was 1987)
     
  28. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    K&P 1992 FD was beautiful. One of the best FD ever, IMO. :swoon:
     
  29. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    Totally agree. Thank you Tarasova.
     
  30. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    I thought Klimova & Ponomarenko's killian was better. They skated closer together, had more fluid handholds, and smoother edges.