Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Bostonfan, Jun 18, 2012.
I love this show, I really do, but this episode was a little over the top.
I think Mason being the first to get it is perfect. They've shown that he can sniff out a lie very easily. After all, he knew there was more to the story of David Clark. He never bought into Victoria. He knew the kidnapping was a joke. He's got a lot invested in the Clark/Greyson debacle and it makes sense that it would take someone on the outside to see all the pieces come together.
Like the title of the show, people want to buy into illusions. Victoria wants to believe that Amanda Clarke turned into a stripper who got knocked up by her childhood friend than a sophisticated, formidable opponent.
Totally agree with this post.
Mason is the investigative journalist, and one of the few who spent time with Amanda after David went to jail. He knows her a bit better than most - certainly better than Victoria, or Jack's nostalgic memories. Remember too that he was already questioning Amanda's identity with the scar, so when Victoria mentioned that Emily was also in juvie, it revived his thoughts that Amanda wasn't Amanda, and quickly led him to Emily. Kinda liked the red thread motif - harkens back to Emily's red marker last season.
As for Victoria's views on Emily - anyone noticed that this season they are ramping up the class distinctions? Suddenly this season we are seeing servants all over the Grayson house constantly. I wondered at first if they were setting up something where the servants overhear something, or they becomes pawns of Victoria/Conrad/Emily etc. Then this ep we have Ashley firmly put in her place in words and images - notably the juxtaposition of Victoria's couture preparations vs Ashley trying on ill-fitting off the rack dresses from her closet (and not even buying something new, to go with her boyfriend's custom tailored tux). And now I'm thinking none of this is for plot - it's merely capitalizing on the popularity of Downton Abbey and reviving the idea of America's version of royalty.
One thing I'm annoyed about though is this stupid "initiative" and the squad of terrorists and money launderers - although it *was* kinda funny when Nolan referred to Aiden as Mr Bond But seriously, I thought the producer of the show said this season would be more about the core circle of characters - back to the cul de sac (!) so to speak. Perhaps he was referring to the yawner Gullible Boys storylines, but I was hoping he was saying that the initiative was no more, and here we have them back and bigger than ever, sigh.
As for Kara and what she knows/what she's up to/how crazy she actually is - let us remember that Jennifer Jason Leigh is a formidable actress, and now I'm seeing that she's ideal casting for this enigmatic character.
Line of the night, as always goes to Nolan when he said that getting Conrad arrested for murder at his own wedding qualified for "revenge all-stars."
No one does barely controlled crazy and angry better than Jennifer Jason Leigh! She was the perfect casting! I'm not sure what she knows or thinks she knows. All of the suggestions here are plausible. I do get the feeling that Emily is liking her mother's vengefulness. In spite of what she believes her mother did to her. I was wondering if her mother was actually trying to kill her or, if Emily was struggling in the water and her mother was trying to save her. Than it got all turned around, because everyone made assumptions based on her mental illness.
I don't think so. She remembered her mother trying to drown her, and her mother admitted having done something so bad that she told David to tell Amanda she was dead. I like the idea of a multi-dimensional character who tried to kill her own daughter, who married a man who helped set up her ex-husband, who is mentally ill but who still appears somewhat sympathetic.
I honestly think she knows who Emily really is, but I'm not sure whose side she's on, ultimately, given her connection to the white haired man.
these nieman marcus commercials are on my last nerve
I don't get this whole 'Gift of Revenge' thing and wish it would go away. This show can be confusing enough all on it's own...I don't need commercials with the cast members in them to mess me up even more, LOL
What a perfect comeuppance for Mason. That was great.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Jack and Declan's dad did that was so bad. It has to do with something with their mom.
Is that it for Jennifer Jason Leigh? Have to admit, I don't mind. She's been a disappointment.
Tonight was awesome! I didn't mind the Neiman/Target ads. I thought it was pretty clever.
I had to wonder if Kara having that last flashback about Amanda in the car, and then looking back at Emily if she made the connection or not that she was her daughter. Otherwise the whole Kara plotline was a big fizzle. All this build-up, and frankly not much happened. I have to imagine she'll play a more significant role down the road.
Other random thoughts:
Oh please, oh please - let the gift that Emily gave to Victoria be an empty box!!!!
"One time, at Revenge camp"
Please Revenge writers, keep Nolan and Emily platonic!
They're throwing too many new characters at us. Now there's a brother to the guy that co-owns the bar (I can't be bothered to remember his name)? They're working some sort of revenge against something Jack and Declan's father did to them? Please - too much. Then there's Padma's contined jerky insertions into the narrative, and the Initiative lady. I almost long for the simpler days when Emily just worked on putting an "x" through the face of one person at a time.
Is it me or does Emily Vancamp look at little softer? Not fatter, mind you. Just not as muscular. She doesn't look as lean and mean physically as she did in Season 1.
What is it with Fauxmanda and tire irons?
The baby was a cutie pie
^^ Agree about the Initiative Lady. I liked it better when the Initiative was just this obscure thing. Putting a face on it makes it seem trite and less powerful.
I thought Amanda was having the flashback, not Kara. We do tend to see things from Amanda's point of view more than anyone else's. I'm fairly sure Kara knew, she may even have known the whole time. The way she looked back just confirmed it for me.
I love that Victoria and Conrad think that the initiative is behind Kara's antics and the security cameras going out. If only they knew
Especially when that face is Wendy Crewson, who is one of my least favourite actors. Mostly because I don't think she can act. Everything she does is exactly the same, completely one note. The fact that that one note fits well for evil automoton ...
Hmm, I'm not sure about any Downton Abbey connection, intentional or otherwise, but I agree that perceptions about the money class has a lot to do with how this show works. The basic premise hinges on the idea that, if you have enough money, you can do anything. I'm thinking the Ashley business has more to do with just illustrating how being around all that money and power will almost inevitably turn your head to wanting more. At least that's how they were treating Ashley last season. This season, and esp. with Aiden's suspicions ... who knows.
The most perfect use of Ashley, though, was last night -- when Mason's comment about Daniel dating the help led to Victoria's comment about Emily being a juvy girl ... and we know where that led.
Other thoughts: Emily + Aiden = whatever, though at least they didn't drag out the inevitable. And at least they're not lying to each other, so that's something.
I agree that Mason being the one to come closest to the truth was fitting -- and I like that, even though he was close, he still didn't figure out the final piece of the puzzle until Emily basically told him. It is, after all, rather too preposterous to just guess at. (Though his juvy lesbian love affair angle was pretty .)
But Mason agreeing to plead guilty so he can get an amazing book out of it??!? This is a perfect example of "things that work in Revenge-land but are so completely removed from real life that they're just laughable." In the context of the plot, it's perfect. Just don't think about it. At. All. Like don't think about how the incredibly fastidious Mason will fare in jail ...
And don't get me started on how much I don't care about the evil rich brothers' revenge on the house of Porter ...
Jennifer Jason Leigh and Henry Czerny are the only two really great actors on this show. The rest of the cast members are just what a soap opera ordered. Whee!!! Adrienne Barbeau (from "Maude") is going to play Madeline Stowe's mother in the next episode. I guess Susan Lucci wasn't available.
message too short
Those commercials made trying to fast forward through the commercials a real challenge!
Susan Lucci as Madeline Stowe's mother would have been the best casting decision ever.
I agree that Czerny is a step above everyone else. JJL should theoretically be but she hasn't impressed me in this. It might just be that I don't like the character at all. I never like those dazed-eyed sorts of characters.
Yeah, the getting Mason to plead guilty thing didn't make any sense, but who cares - great episode!!
OMG that would have been FABULOUS.
Also agree that Henry Czerny is the best actor on the show, and thanks to some really good dialogue I think, is getting better and better. His interactions with Victoria are delicious.
Hubby has started watching with me this season, and that was the moment when I had to explain to him that on this show, there are many moments like that, and we just have to go with it.
Also agree we need to keep Nolan and Emily platonic, plus I have to say the bit with Padma was like last week never happened, when he told her off at the wedding re going behind his back, and now he's all soppy puppy with her. And then previews of next week - did I see him kissing a man? We know that's a possibility for him, but then what's with Padma? They need to sort this out - Nolan is way to good a character and Gabrielle Mann is doing way too good a job with it to screw around like this.
Hubby's other big question is why on earth Nolan would be willing to give up control of his "life's work" just because he made a vague promise to her father. Seriously? Sure, he's trusting Aiden because he's Emily's friend, but just as hiring Padma to a very senior position with no background on her didn't make any sense, you'd think that Nolan would have CHECKED WITH EMILY before giving up control of his company, no? And is he not connecting the dots that at the very same time that Aiden is after this info, so was Padma? Are we dropping that SL?
And then there's the cheque. Considering it's potentially worth billions of dollars and the control of two major corporations, you'd think they'd at least put it in a protective envelope, no? But then we wouldn't have the visual, which sadly does seem to drive a lot of decisions by the writers on this show.
I did enjoy Emily's reveal to Mason though - rewound and watched it twice
I have to wonder if Emily has a specific endgame in mind for her revenge against Conrad and Victoria, or whether she just wants to hang around their world and stir things up in any old direction that will make them suffer.
Will she be vindicated if they end up dead? If they're imprisoned for life for crimes they did or didn't commit? If they publicly confess to or are exposed for framing David regardless of their own fate?
How was marrying Daniel supposed to achieve any of those goals?
^ Her gameplan seems to change as she goes along and uncovers new info. Obviously when she started down this road she had no idea about The Initiative. I doubt she's feeling any kind of sympathy toward Conrad and Victoria in the light of that relevation, but it does alter her strategies.
I wonder too at what point "justice" supercedes "revenge." Obviously the latter is name of the game (and the show), but would she be satisfied with clearing her father's name? But of course for that to happen the real villains have to be named ...
She told Takeda that marrying Daniel was her way in to the company. It would allow her to search for evidence clearing her father. Of course this was also when Takeda was questioning her ability to stick with her revenge plan and said she was too emotionally involved with Daniel.
All in all I kind of like that Emily seemingly drifts around her goals for revenge. It matches with Takeda's criticism of her ability to follow through. She is steely and determined and then seems to lose focus as she gets distracted by something else. Her contradiction makes her character a little more realistic to me because the ass-kicking never failing Emily would be too perfect for me to believe after a while.
ETA: I think it fits with her trying to figure out what she really wants in life. She either wants to be close to people or push them away and use them but she can't have both. I don't think she really knows yet even though she tries to act like she does.
Regarding Mason's willingness to go along with the plan, I will give the writers the benefit of the doubt and believe that Emily had a Plan B up her sleeve if Mason never agreed to the plan from the get go. Since Mason accepted her initial deal, Emily didn't have to go to the alternative route. I further believe that Emily will have a Plan B should Mason stop cooperating at some point in the future, especially if Emily takes longer to enact her revenge than Mason expects/hopes.
I also think that her plans waver because she is realizing that she is more human/kind than she realized. Her hatred of Conrad and Victoria was all she felt, initially. Then she met Daniel and more importantly her half sister Charlotte, and realized she was not the only victim. She did not expect to feel compassion. She has held Nolan at arms length, but clearly there is an unexpected bond there.
Yeah, that's why I was particularly impressed with her acting in the scene where she broke down and cried on Aiden's shoulder, after her mother's complex history/reality came to light. The way she cried seemed so anathema to her character. (Did I use anathema correctly? God, I need to read more...)
And I think for someone who was wronged as a child, by authority figures, you want revenge but at the same time it's terrifying to confront the wrongdoer/authority figure. So even though she's now an adult, she still sees the Graysons as authority figures. Crushing them would mean there are no more adults, and that's a scary proposition.
And she knows it, which is why she went back for further training.
Still though, even though the prospect of a blockbuster book/scoop of the century is appealing to a writer, the price is an undetermined time in prison. He's being convicted of murder, so he'll be placed with hardcore criminals, and he's a gay man, who likely will not fare well at all. You'd think he'd at least have shown some concern when she said he'd stay there as long as she saw fit, and countered with some more concrete idea of a timeframe.
The is not that Emily would offer Mason the deal ... but that Mason would accept.
Like I said earlier, it's the kind of thing that only makes sense in TVland/Revengeland, and only if you don't think about it at all and just go with it.
I still don't know what to make of Padma, and I really couldn't care less about Brothers Clueless, although I have to admit I have soft spot a mile whide for Michael Trucco, so adding that particular character might save that story line for me.
Yeah, makes no sense at all, even if he felt massive guilt that does seem extreme.
Michael Trucco is in the latest episode???
Why have I waited so long to catch up?? Off to go watch this immediately...
In the TV Guide magazine, there's some non-spoilery stuff from the Revenge producers:
Mike Kelley offers some encouraging news to fans who may feel as though they've been treading water waiting for Emily to resolve her mommy issues and get back to what she excelled at last season: plotting revenge against the Graysons for the death of her father. December 2nd will be the last episode aired before the winter hiatus. Kelley says we can expect one of Emily's "old school-style takedowns" and what we learn will help propel viewers through the winter hiatus.