Retrospective: The 1988 Olympics

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    I believe this is the only footage commanly available of Ivanova's figures who was dominant at the time. It's interesting to not however that Thomas won the 2nd and 3rd figure, but Ivanova maintained her lead here overall.

    I actually enjoyed Ivanova's short program and it appeared to me to be one of her more thought out programs. Her short programs always seemed to be a strength when compared to her long programs which were often all over the place.
     
  2. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    The vodka's on its way.
     
  3. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Psss . . . somebody does not realize they were the well zambonied ice, you performed the Level 4 Eye Roll, and I awarded +3 GOE ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  4. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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  5. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Haha. I personally cannot achieve a level 4 bitchface with +3 GOE because first of all it ages you, and secondly I have too much botox. I would rather have a 'well zambonied' face, than a scratchy, agey, and used one. Bitchface on an 18 y/o looks good, not quite so on a 40+ y/o. Just saying... Try again.

    Anyways, there did seem to be a cold war between Dick Button and the Russians. He practically screamed at Kira Ivanova's SP and let us all know how horrible she was. I was never a fan of Kira's, but hearing him rant and rave on her kind of made me like her. And root for her. GO KIRA!!! Where is the emoticon with a bad Kira camel or sitspin or landing??? It's gold. Kira was a rock star!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  6. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I find it hard to believe that a skater would give up her Olympic dream to "take one for the team".
    Skating is a highly individual sport and in the US coaches are employed by the skater not the federation. What skater would listen to a coach who asked her to withdraw in the middle of the Olympics so one of her competitors could have a better chance of winning?
     
  7. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I mean how would the USFSA compensate Kadavy? Conspiracy theories are fun but there's a reason why one should never believe in them.
     
  8. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Level 4 :rofl: . . . there was a real Cold War between the United States of America and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics with nuclear intercontinental ballistic missles and everything, and part of Uncle Dick's job at the American Broadcast Company was US-THEM commentary.
     
  9. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I agree with both of you, but I thought it was Trash Can worthy :sekret:
     
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  10. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    Thank goodness! I thought for a moment we had lost you to the twighlight zone. I thought it was commendable that Mama Kadavy put her daughter's health first. You rarely see rhat at that level.

    The conspiracy theory reminds me of the time Todd E dislocated his shoulder in a warm-up on camera and struggled in agony for a few moments before popping it back in place. Mishin said he did it on purpose to avoid having to compete against Mishin's skaters. Todd did go ahead and compete btw, and laughed when told about Mishin's statement afterwards.
     
  11. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with the long program placements, but would have the SP as 1. Kadavy, 2. Ito, 3. Thomas, 4. Trenary, 5. Witt, 6. Manley. Although I could go either way on Ito vs. Kadavy, Thomas vs. Trenary, and Witt vs. Manley. I'm always surprised that people today make such a big deal of Trenary's slightly wobbly combo. I know that back in the day, emphasis was placed on the required jump, which was the double loop, but I'd still have a triple flip-double loop with a slight lean forward over a triple toe or sal with a double loop. If anything, the difficulty of the triple flip, which was so rarely performed in 1988, should have been more impressive back then.

    I'm curious as to whether Kadavy would have still withdrawn if she'd been marked more fairly in the SP and was in medal contention. Even as it was, I'm surprised she didn't try to gut it out, although if it was a stomach type of flu, I can see not wanting to have issues in such a public arena (no pun intended). I don't think that I'd call her princessy in either event. She was never a good pressure skater, but I doubt that anyone who is princessy could make her professional career last as long (or maintain her jumps as long) as Kadavy did.
     
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  12. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps we should start a new thread about your favorite conspiracy theories :skandal. They're always interesting. :watch:. Why else would we have all these emoticons? :blocjudge :fan::sekret::EVILLE::mitchell:
     
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  13. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    They do dress up in roller skating

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoheaYv2OLw

    bonus: fall! at 0.21 (doing the loop on a right back inside edge)
     
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    I don't see how they could get edges in roller skating. Funny that they have figures competitions in Roller skating but not in Figure skating.
     
  15. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    It puzzles me how judges can score roller skating figures when there's nothing to see once the skaters are done.
     
  16. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

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    I don't care for her skating, but I love Katarina ruminating on how she had to go early and show them how it's done, wondering if she had the chutzpah to do whatever combination, thinking about her triple Rittberger (loop?) and finding time in the middle of all that thinking to flirt with seven men.
     
  17. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Your absolutely right. The loop jump is also called a "Rittberger" after Werner Rittberger, the person who invented it in 1910. Hence, the abbreviation 3R for a Triple Loop

    The axel (Axel Paulsen), the lutz (Alois Lutz), and the salchow (Ulrich Salchow), are obviously still known by their inventors names. The flip, like the loop, used to be. The flip was invented by Bruce Mapes, and used to be known as a "Mapes". Ironically, Bruce Mapes also invented the toe loop. However, as far as I know, that jump has never been known as a "Mapes" as that name had already been given to the flip. Another irony, however, is that in artistic roller skating, the toe loop is known as a "Mapes"
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  18. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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  19. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    In hindsight it is pretty clear the podium was always going to be Witt, Thomas, and Manley in some order unless Manley really pulled out a total stinker on par with her 87 Worlds LP effort. I feel sorry for the other contenders who in retrospect never really stood a chance no matter what of getting on the podium.
     
  20. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    Did you look at the video?
    The skaters follow lines painted on the floor.
    They're judged partly on how close they stay on the line (ideally all four wheels should always straddle the line) and on speed and posture. Iused to think that ice figures would have benefitted from two separate marks, one for the tracings and the other for speed and posture.
     
  21. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Before the 1988 Olympics, Manley was considered one of the skaters competing for the bronze, others being Kadavy and Trenary. It was a foregone conclusion that 1-2 would be Witt & Thomas in any order. Manley had struggled earlier, but at the 1988 Olympics she delivered two solid performances, which surprised even her. She really threw a wrench in the Thmas-Witt drama by skating great in the LP, which put even more pressure on Thomas. It meant gold or bronze, and not gold or silver for Debi.
     
  22. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I watched the video. But thanks for clearing up that mystery for me.

    I guess because I was comparing the judging process to ice skating, ice skating judges would study the skater's tracings very intently once they were done. Not so much, as they were doing them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  23. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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  24. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    bad, bad, bad, bad bad bad bad, this is very bad :(
     
  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Yes this was true BEFORE the Olympics but after the short program it was clear Manley was a lock for the podium barring a major meltdown in the LP with Kadavy and Trenary having no chance, and that she was even a threat to place higher. In the SP she was very close to beating Thomas who skated excellently even with an easier combination and two bobbles. Then the figures results with Witt and Manley who are both poor in figures finishing above Trenary and Kadavy who are strong in the phase, and it was clear all around there the judges were going and that was a certain podium of Witt, Thomas, and Manley in some order barring a Manley meltdown (Thomas was already too far ahead to lose a medal with a meltdown by that point).
     
  26. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    If Ito had won both the short and long programs, could she have medalled? I'm still unclear of that (assuming the order of the other skaters/programs stays the same except with Ito pushing them down one spot)?
     
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Thomas factored points:

    2nd in figures: 1.2
    3rd in short: 1.2
    4th in long: 4.0
    Total: 6.4

    Ito factored points:

    10th in figures: 6.0
    1st in short: 0.4
    1st in long: 1.0
    Total: 7.4

    Thomas would have had to lose the LP portion to Trenary for Ito to medal (she beat Trenary in the LP by a 5-4 split).
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  28. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    duplicate post.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  29. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    But a Manley Meltdown was not a rare occurrence. Trenary definitely had a chance for a medal.
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    In retrospect she didnt though since with how Manley skated and was scored in all phases, and how Thomas and Trenary were being scored they didnt have a prayer of coming close to a medal. Even Thomas with a LP meltdown was well out of their reach, for instance Kadavy wouldnt have even medaled had she won the LP phase and Thomas been pushed down to 5th. Trenary would have had to win the LP phase, which of course she wasnt capable of doing.

    Yeah I agree before the LP there was always the hope Manley would have a LP like Canadians and land 0 or 1 triples, in which case there would be a medal chance for either of them, but that was their only hope of a medal at that point.