Retrospective: The 1987 World Championships

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Retrospective moves onto the 1987 World Championships

    The key facts in relation to these championships are:-

    • After finishing 2nd at the 1984 Olympics and in 3 successive world championships between 1984-86, Brian Orser finally wins a world title. In doing so, he became the first skater to land 2 triple axels in the same free program, and 3 overall in one competition. This set up the contest that would become known as "the battle of the Brians" at the 1988 Olympics, which Boitano won. Boitano also regained his World title at the 1988 World Championships. Hence, the 1987 World title would be Orser's only one.
    • Katarina Witt regains the World title she lost to Debi Thomas the year before. It was Witt's third World title, having won it in 1984 and 1985. Nevertheless, at these championships, a poor 5th placed finish in the compulsories by Witt, had meant that Thomas only needed to finish 2nd in the short and long programs to retain her World title. However, a disastrous 7th place finish in the short program by Thomas, meant that a win in the free skate would give Witt the title. Katarina then produced the best long program performance of her life, landing 5 triples, to win both the free skate and the World title.
    • Debi Thomas had actually been beaten by Jill Trenary at U.S.Nationals a few weeks prior to the 1987 World Championships. Trenary finished 7th at these championships and would go on to win the 1990 World title. Her compatriot, Caryn Kadavy, won the Bronze, which would ultimately be her only medal at a World or Olympics competition. Kadavy had to pull out of the 1988 Olympic FS due to illness, and she retired at the end of the 1987/88 season. Many tried to persuade Kadavy not to retire when she did, as she would have almost certainly challenged Ito and Trenary for the World title during the next quadrennium. Instead, she went on to have a very distinguished professional career.
    • Gordeeva & Grinkov retain their World title, which they had won for the first time the year before. In winning the title, they landed a quadruple twist lift. Although, the quadruple twist life had first been performed by Marina Cherkasova and Sergei Shakrai in the late 1970's, G&G remain one of the few pairs to have successfully executed it, which they did with ease in these championships. However, going into the World Championships, G&G had actually been disqualified at the European Championships for failing to stop during their LP after the referee had blown his whistle and stopped their music (G&G thought the cassette playing their music had simply broken and had not heard the whistle. Hence, they did not stop). The referee had done that as a strap holding down Grinkov's pant leg had come undone and there was a fear that it could trip them up and cause serious injury.
    • Bestemianova & Bukin win the World title for the 3rd consecutive time. Their free dance, Cabaret, marked a change of direction for them, as summed by this article which says: In 1987 the duo went in a completely different direction with a comedic routine to music from “Cabaret.” Bestemianova recalled it was a fun year and gave them a different perspective. “It made training a lot easier especially leading up to the 1988 Games,” she said.

    Here are the videos for the medal winning performances:-

    MEN'S

    Gold: Brian Orser (Canada)

    Short Program, Free Skate, Exhibition, Medal Ceremony, Profile

    Silver: Brian Boitano (USA)

    Free Skate

    Bronze: Alexander Fadeev (USSR)

    Free Skate, Exhibition

    4th: Vladimir Kotin (USSR)

    Exhibition

    6th: Viktor Petrenko (USSR)

    Short Program

    7th: Christopher Bowman (USA)

    Short Program, Free Skate

    LADIES

    Gold: Katarina Witt (East Germany)

    Short Program, Free Skate, Exhibition, Medal Ceremony

    Silver: Debi Thomas (USA)

    Short Program, Free Skate, Exhibition

    Bronze: Caryn Kadavy (USA)

    Short Program, Free Skate

    4th: Elizabeth Manley (Canada)

    Short Program, Free Skate

    5th: Kira Ivanova (USSR)

    Free Skate

    6th: Claudia Leistner (West Germany)

    Free Skate

    7th: Jill Trenary (USA)

    Short Program, Free Skate, Profile

    8th: Midori Ito (Japan)

    Short Program, Free Skate

    9th: Anna Kondrashova (USSR)

    Free Skate

    10th: Joanne Conway (Great Britain)

    Free Skate

    PAIRS

    Gold: Ekaterina Gordeeva & Sergei Grinkov (USSR)

    Short Program, Long Program

    Silver: Elena Valova & Oleg Vasiliev (USSR)

    Long Program

    Bronze: Jill Watson & Peter Oppegard (USA)

    Short Program, Long Program

    ICE DANCE

    Gold: Natalia Bestemianova & Andrei Bukin (USSR)

    Free Dance

    Silver: Marina Klimova & Sergei Ponomarenko (USSR)

    Original Set Pattern, Free Dance, Exhibition

    Bronze: Tracy Wilson & Robert McCall (Canada)

    Free Dance

    4th: Natalia Annenko & Genrikh Sretenski (USSR)

    Free Dance

    5th: Suzanne Semanick & Scott Gregory (USA)

    Free Dance
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
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  2. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Were the judges too hard on Debi in the SP? The hand touch-down on the 2A didn't look that bad. Maybe they were punishing her for the music and outfit choice. Debi looked great in the unitard, and she had better body lines than Kat.
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  3. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    But who should she have been ahead of? It's a shame she was 7th, because everything else looked great.
  4. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    I believe Witt, Manley, Ito, Trenary, Kadavy and Ivanova all skated clean short programs.

    Also, Debi lost the US Title to Trenary, so she may not have had the political clout coming into this event she should have, even as the defending World champion.
  5. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I had been a long time fan of Brian Orser's but forgot to watch that night because I was on a trip to Russia with my school! I woke up to a newspaper at my hotel door the next morning with a huge photo of Brian Orser and Gold! I was kicking myself! On another note - I ended up watching the freedance in my hotel with a bunch of the hotel staff in Moscow - me cheering for Wilson and McCall and them cheering for B and B! It was fun!
  6. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Look at that program construction . . . decent foot work content, decent field moves . . . and the judges rewarded it. If Johnny Weir would just mimic this program construction with some minor CoP tweeks, he would be competitive. I'm actually a little shocked that this type of program could have even come out of the Galina/Viktor camp . . . they must have been young and still had heart.

    :p Despite my admiration, this will always be Midori's music.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  7. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    The top six were Witt, Manley, Ito (!!!!), Trenary, Kadavy, and Ivanova in the OP. I guess there can be an argument that even a clean Ivanova should not beat a faltering Thomas, but back then the OP was the kiss of death, well, usually. Thomas was repeating the Frankie Goes to Hollywood program, and I wasn't much of a fan of it.

    Was this the competition that Boitano said he couldn't even walk until two days before the event? I can't remember if he used that as an excuse for his loss or if he had used that for his 86 win to enhance his own sense of self-mythology.
  8. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    ROTFLMAO!!! :rofl: I've always felt that way about him but never could have expressed it this perfectly!!
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I did not see the marks of Manley, Ivanova and Leistner (saw the performances of Manley and Ivanova). Wow the ordinals between Witt (1st), Ito (3rd), Trenary (4th), Kadavy (5th), and Thomas (7th) were all over the map. It would be great to see the ordinals for the whole short program event. It wouldnt surprise me if atleast 1 judge even had Witt lower than Leistner who came 8th in the short, lol! In that tight competition Thomas`s mistake would have hurt her alot. I dont agree on her beating Ivanova in the short, I thought Ivanova`s short was great and underplaced. I would have put Trenary down in 7th in the short (or 8th depending how Leistners clean skate looked). So probably 6th for Thomas, 1st without her mistake though. Witt did not deserve to win the short, it was one of her worst short programs ever IMO. Manley, Ito, Kadavy, should have all placed above, heck I might have had Ivanova higher than Witt in the short.
  10. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I've watched the Ladies SP. What an impressive competition.
    I think rankings could have been all different. I don't knowwhich rankings I would have had. Maybe not Witt in 1st, but I'm not fond of her skating. Well, the elements were good.
  11. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Looking back, I like Kadavy the most. Such elegance. Wonderful 3loop. Too bad she is obligated to pop at least one jump in every one of her long programs and compromising her results.

    I definitely think she is better than Trenary as a free skater. Too bad she didn't stay an extra quad. If she had, perhaps Yamaguchi wouldn't focus on singles and Kerrigan wouldn't have risen so quickly.
  12. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Kadavy is a better overall skater than Trenary (and I like Trenary). But I'm not sur that in the next quad, she would have been that successful. Her 3Loop was gorgeous, but she didn't have more.
  13. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Trenary's outfits and choreography (and hair :) ) look so dated, particularly in the SP.

    Witt's SP choreography was a jumbled mess. Someone with extensive dance background might have been abled to pull off than frenetic choreography, but Witt didn't.

    I've forgotten how charismatic and what a good skater Chris Bowman can be out on the ice. Sigh.
  14. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    I have all the ladies SP's on tape somewhere. Pity this thread didn't come up last week which was my half term break and I was sick. A little maths with the marks would have whiled away a lovely afternoon reminiscing. Maybe I'll get round to it one day, but this was one of my favourite Worlds and very well skated right down the ranks. Because there is access to every performance by every skater in the competition - minus figures, you can really appreciate the depth that appeared here. There were some terrific men's performances lower down the ranks from the likes of a young Petr Barna and Grzegorz Filipowski.
  15. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I think I have all the men's long programs on tape from various sources. When I got hold of the ones that weren't broadcast in the US, mostly skaters I'd never seen or even heard of before, I sat down and tried to judge them as I understood 1980s judging from a 1990s fan perspective.

    The first skater was one of the Japanese guys, I think Makato Kano, and IIRC he skated a clean LP with one of each triple including triple axel, and he seemed to have good speed and flow. Based on what I expected for 1980s jump content, my first thought for scores was 5.6/5.4, which is not leaving much room with 23 skaters yet to go. Yes, I was a little high, but I think one judge did go there, or at least one to 5.4/5.4.

    That performance was actually a highlight (although some of the others were more artistic) until Barna, who didn't have the axel.
  16. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Man, I am SUCH a fan of Debi's SP from this year! Up until the 2 axel, I thought it was awesome.
    I love that she started with her combination spin; talk about nice camel and sit spin positions, and the variations she added were appropriate to the music, not RANDOM point getters. IMO, skaters should have to do the 'basic' positions first before adding variations, especially in the SP.

    I also miss footwork sequences that had definite patterns, with the serpentine being my favorite. :)

    I think we need to go back to the 80s style of SPs with different elements being required each year. I know they do this on the junior level, but I think it's a great idea for Senior level too. I would LOVE to see forward flying sit spins, flying reverse change sits, etc..
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Kadavy would have never stopped Kristi long term. Kristi had a full arsenal of triples and Kadavy never would have, plus Kadavy was far too fragile a competitor, and was never a big name to the USFSA, even Trenary (rightly or wrongly) always had more support.
  18. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    She probably could get harder triples given her relatively good technique. By the time she retired from competitive skating she had only competed for a few years internationally and was still quite young. If Trenary could win a World title in that quad so could she.
  19. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    THIS. He was wonderful.

    As a skater I think he was even better than Boitano.
  20. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    i just wish g/g skated to "giselle" for their lp--the way the steiglers did in 1998--instead of that jazzy piece. not a big fan of the latter piece of music. tiffany steigler in that lp was about the same age as katia was in 87, so katia would've been more than capable of pulling off such a program. and katia wouldve been so cute in a giselle costume!
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  21. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Caryn was actually listed in the 1989 US Championships, but withdrew due to injury. Had she skated injury - free and with her stronger track record in figures than Yamaguchi, the 1989 World Team (and podium in Paris) may have included her.
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  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Of course that is very possible and with the level of skating she could have medaled at Worlds that year instead of Trenary. That has nothing to do with "long term" though. Kadavy was never going to be a threat to Kristi in 91 and 92 if she were somehow still around, not a chance. Nor was she going to discourage Kristi to mostly do pairs. Kristi was always chomping at the bit for figures to be done, and as it was she didnt even medal at the 89 or 90 Worlds and that didnt discourage her (and she was going to qualify to compete at the 1990 Worlds regardless).
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  23. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I've been posting on the Name thread. I always pronounced her name Kah-RINN. I think it is much prettier. Instead, we get parents who decide to flip vowels and consonants when in the end all they named her was "Karen". Uggh.

    No. Kah-rinn would never have withstood the early quad. Maybe she could have beaten Treachery at Worlds in 89, I mean Leistner did, for heaven's sake. But the writing was on the wall. The Treachery's and Kadavy's were on their way out.
    .
    I absolutely felt that Ka-rinn was miles above Debi Thomas, even in 1985. What with the two loops, the style, the presence. She was a headcase. Simple as that. And Debi had a champion's mentality. I guess Fassi forgot to instill that in Ka-rinn and Treachery.
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  24. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    For me the b ig thing was seeing Brian Orser finally win after being the favourite year after year. It was a great moment.

    Kata did skate to giselle years later as a single skater and her costume was quite cute. I loved their SP at this competition. They were just sooo much faster than anyone else and skated with such confidence that it was amazing. The LP had its problems, but their SP was awesome.

    I remember we were driving down to Florida during the ladies part competition so there was very little in the newspapers down south about it. We did find the long program on tv in a hotel and I remember seeing Katarina Witt actually land her triple loop for the first time (that I could remember) and I was a huge fan at the time. I could not stand Debi thomas back then.

    I also remember thinking Klimova Ponamarenko should have won..again... but B/B always seemed to win anyway.
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  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I think an argument could be made for Manley and Ito to be ahead of Witt in the SP, but reputation meant that it was never going to happen.

    Trenary seemed to get love from judges when she stayed on her feet, but there was a stiffness to her that made me a non-fan. That hair is epic! I wonder how big of a hole all that hairspray put in the Ozone layer!

    Kadavy looked good but some of those jumps looked close to being 2-footed and one of them struck me as being wobbly in the SP. Perhaps that is why she was only in 5th. I always thought she had the most raw talent of any US lady in this quadrennial. Her 2x-3l seq. in the LP was almost unheard of. I wonder why the judges didn't give her a little more love!

    I loved Thomas's SP to 'Relax' by FGTH. I always thought she was technically better than Witt on jumps and spins. It was pretty revolutionary at the time for a US skater who wasn't a stereotypical ice princess to get so much love from the USFSA
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  26. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    From a Canadian perspective, Denise Benning and Lyndon Johnston finished 5th in the pairs competition, automatically qualifying themselves for the Olympics due to the "named skater" rule still in effect for 3 entries (interestingly, Benning/Johnston would actually finish 3rd at 1988 Canadian Nationals, though they would end up as the highest Canadian entry at 1988 Olympics and Olympics).

    Another note - former World Junior champion Scott Williams would qualify for his 2nd World Championship team (10th), but was apparently not at 1988 US Nationals.
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  27. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    He was too busy politically manipulating the placement of some skaters under the 6.0-ordinal system to keep the real threat to his skaters off the World team, at least in 1989.
  28. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  29. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    yes, im aware katia skated to giselle after sergei's death, but i still wish that she should've skated to that piece of music in 1987 with sergei.
  30. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Ekaterina Gordeeva - Giselle
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  31. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thank you so much for the retrospective, I always look forward to reading them and watching the videos.

    Christopher Bowman had such a natural command over the ice, goregous programs. Even with the fall in the LP, I enjoy Midori Ito's program, and of course next year she would have her amazing LP at the Calgary games as well.
    I thought G&G"s SP was great and perfect for the pair at the time-a great way to show off their speed & unison. I just love V&V"s LP, beautiful program with difficult moves and good transitions.
    I always love the DRAMA of a B&B program, but I enjoy this Cabaret program for it's "danciness" and speed-a great program.
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  32. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I think of the 1987 World's I think of Orser finally being the gold medallist. I watched him live for years and he is always one of my fave skaters to see.