Retrospective: The 1986 World Championships

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Retrospective moves on to the 1986 World Championships.

    The key facts in relation to these championships are:-

    • Brian Boitano becomes world champion for the first time, having won the bronze medal the year before. He narrowly beat Brian Orser, who once again had to settle for 2nd place for the 3rd year in a row (having also finished 2nd at the 1984 Olympics). Defending champion, Alexander Fadeyev, had been well placed to retain his title going into the long program, but had a disastrous free skate
    • Debi Thomas becomes world champion, beating defending champion, Katarina Witt, into 2nd place. Although Witt won the free skate, a 4th placed finish in the short program left her with too much ground to make up and cost her the title.
    • Ekaterina Gordeeva & Sergei Grinkov win the world title for the first time on debut. It would be the first of 4 world titles and they would go on to become double Olympic champions. Ekaterina Gordeeva (known as 'Katia') was only 14 years old, and the pair had only just won the World Junior Championships the year before
    • Natalia Bestemianova & Andrei Bukin retain the world title which they had won for the first time the year before. It was their 2nd of 4 consecutive world titles and they would go on to become 1988 Olympic champions.

    Here are the videos for the medal winning performances:-

    MENS

    Gold: Brian Boitano (USA)

    Free Skate

    Review of Compulsories and Short Programs

    Medal Ceremony

    Silver: Brian Orser (CAN)

    Free Skate

    Exhibition

    Profile

    Bronze: Alexander Fadeyev (USSR)

    Free Skate

    Exhibition

    4th: Vladimir Kotin (USSR)

    Exhibition

    5th: Viktor Petrenko (USSR)

    Free Skate

    6th: Jozef Sabovčík (Czechoslovakia)

    Free Skate

    LADIES

    Gold: Debi Thomas (USA)

    Free Skate

    Review of Compulsories & Short Programs

    Exhibition

    Medal Ceremony

    Profile

    Silver: Katarina Witt (East Germany)

    Short Program

    Free Skate

    Exhibition

    Bronze: Tiffany Chin (USA)

    Free Skate

    Profile

    4th: Kira Ivanova (USSR)

    Free Skate

    5th: Elizabeth Manley (CAN)

    Free Skate

    7th: Anna Kondrashova (USSR)

    Free Skate

    8th: Caryn Kadavy (USA)

    Free Skate

    11th: Midori Ito (JPN)

    Short Program & Free Skate, Free Skate

    PAIRS

    Gold: Ekaterina Gordeeva & Sergei Grinkov (USSR)

    Long Program

    Exhibition

    Medal Ceremony

    Silver: Elena Valova & Oleg Vasiliev (USSR)

    No Video Available

    Bronze: Cynthia Coull & Mark Rowsom (CAN)

    No Video Available

    4th: Larisa Selezneva & Oleg Makarov (USSR) (Parents of Ksenia Makarova)

    Long Program

    6th: Jill Watson & Peter Oppegard (USA)

    Long Program

    ICE DANCE

    Gold: Natalia Bestemianova & Andrei Bukin (USSR)

    Free Dance

    Silver: Marina Klimova & Sergei Ponomarenko (USSR)

    Free Dance

    Bronze: Tracy Wilson & Robert McCall (CAN)

    Free Dance

    Exhibition
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    This Worlds was noteable as it was a real turning point of the quad for these skaters:

    -Alexander Fadeev
    -Valova & Vasiliev
    -Kira Ivanova
    -Selezneva & Makarov
    -Annenko & Stretenski (were 3rd going into FD but dropped to 4th)
    -Jozef Savockik

    To varying degrees they never recovered from what happened here. Well maybe V&V dont belong on that list but this event cemented G&G as the new dominant pair as their was little V&V could do to stem the tide at this point. It was also a turning point in the B&B and K&P rivalry. B&B won by only 1 judge. Had K&P won the torch would have been passed right here and then, and never gone back. With B&B winning they became increasingly dominant again heading to Calgary and K&P were forced to wait their turn.

    For Chin it looked like the start of a comeback but instead it was a last hurrah.
     
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  3. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know the music for Tiffany's slow section? I've only seen Tiffany and Daniel Doran used that particular piece of music.

    It's frustrating watching Tiffany LP. If she could've done two 3toes and two 3sals (3t-2t, 3s, 3t, 3s-2t) then she would've been competitive with Debbie and Kat. Tiffany's 2A was always a beauty though, and she never lost it.

    It's interesting watching the slow motion of Tiffany's 3s. Her problem with that jump was that she didn't lift up into it. When she was younger with a tinier body, her quick rotations was able to compensate for the lack of height in that jump. But when her body matured it totally threw off that jump for her.

    The 86 Boitano and the 88 Boitano were two entirely different skater.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Ladies - I think this was the World championships where Debi solidified herself as the best US lady. She was really inspired here.

    I was happy to see her defeat Witt whom I never really liked.

    I too thought Tiffany was on the road back but as someone up-thread said, it was her last hurrah.

    Lost in the cold war shuffle of US skaters v. Witt (GDR) and Ivanova (USSR) was Manley's LP, arguably her best ever!

    Men - I remember being shocked that Boitano won. He came from behind to win. Although, Fadeyev had a meltdown and Orser was subpar. Poor Sabovcik was injured and we would never see him again.
     
  5. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    What I remember most about this Worlds is the judging in the mens event was wacko from the USSR. Fadeev's LP scores are seriously laughable. It was all there for Orser and then all of a sudden he forgot how to do a triple axel :fragile: I don't like Boitano's LP but you can't argue with the win. It's interesting to remember that Boitano was injured coming in and Linda Leaver threatended to withdraw him from the World team unless he could show her a clean triple axel before they left for Geneva. She did teh same regarding the triple lutz at 1986 Us Nationals IIRC.

    Ladies - well I never got the Debi Thomas hype here. It was very clear and the judges made it even more so, that she won because Witt screwed up the SP - she had major issues with that program all season long I think. I always felt Debi was horribly upstaged by Witt's LP marks. Liz Manley's skate here was wonderful.

    I was a dance uber back then and very much in the K&P camp (always was) and remember being really unhappy with the results. That said, if it had gone the other way then perhaps K&P wouldn't have been around in '92? I did luuuurve her skating :swoon:

    And then pairs - this is where I fell in love with Katia Gordeeva. As did just about every commentator bar Debbi Wilkes who is quite disparaging of them. She'd changed her tune come Calgary ;)
     
  6. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    I need to get out my DVD of Retro Ice but I vaguely recall Debi saying she was wrong about what she said about G&G.
     
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  7. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Debi had a lot of momentum coming into this event. She'd won the US Olympic Festival, St. Ivel, Skate America, and beat Chin and Kadavy at US Nationals.

    I'm sorry Thomas didn't go for the triple loop in Geneva, though. I guess she and her coach felt that it was better to go for a clean skate instead of risking a fall.

    John Tesh in the CBS coverage calculated that if Chin had won the long, Thomas would have got silver, and Witt the bronze. I'm sorry Tiffany skated so conservatively in the free. Her skating was so elegant.

    I didn't see Manley's free skate until 5 or 6 years ago. She really should have won the long with that program. It was so dynamic.
     
  8. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    The hype for Debi exists solely on her Exhibition performance. She may have performed in previous competitions, I'm not sure, but I would argue that it is the greatest ladies gala program EVER.
     
  9. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, it was already her Exhibition at 1985 WOrlds, where she finished in 4th or 5th.
     
  10. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    Klimova & Ponomarenko never cease to wow me. That FD is stunning in terms of the range of steps, edges, handholds, etc. The content never stops. They really should've been world champs from 1985-1992 non-stop.
     
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  11. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Manley's skate was crazy. 4 super clean and different triples and not a wobble on anything except a spiral. I hated her 1988 program from the music to the costuming. Was too juvenile for her, just as Baiul's was in 1994. Everything was great about that skate, though, including the music, the elements, the energy, her packaging...everything. That would have been a better program for the olympics!

    I have been searching for Coull and Rowsom videos. Bummer you couldn't find it either. I remember they didn't skate so well in 87 and then they disappeared. They didn't compete in Olympic season and no one said why. A few years later I saw Mark at the university gym. He was in the music program I think and I was in business. I wanted to go up to him and ask what happened but felt super awkward trying to find a politically correct way to ask "what happened to you?"...also while standing there half naked :)
     
  12. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, he suffered a groin injury. And by then Cynthia had stopped singles skating for a couple of years, and didn't have enough time to start again.

    He was in a show that came through Saint John a few years later. I can't remember who he skated with (it wasn't Cynthia) maybe he was a solo. He sang too.
     
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  13. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Here is another video of Gordeeva & Grinkov's free skate from 1986 World's (with CBC commentary). For me, their free skate was the highlight of the 1986 world championships, and their 1985/86 'Caravans' program was my favourite of all their free program's. Quite simply, the best pairs skaters of all time in my opinion.

    Also, here is a review of the pairs competition complete with the prophetic words relating to Gordeeva & Grinkov: "This is a pair on schedule for Olympic Gold in 88."

    Gordeeva & Grinkov from earlier in the 1985/86 season:

    Skate Canada - SP

    Skate Canada - FS

    European Championships - FS

    European Championships - FS (2nd Copy)

    In the first post, I posted a link to Gordeeva & Grinkov's 1985 World Junior LP. Here is their 1984 World Junior SP
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
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  14. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thanks for the videos. When it comes to G&G I prefer their later programs, especially their pro numbers, but even at that young age their unison was quite impressive. Oh, let me just state the obvious, Katia Gordeeva is simply adorable. Her smile is absolutely infectious.

    Just watch Debi Thomas' exhibition. Studying pre-med & keeping up her training as an elite skater? I'm impressed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  15. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Debi definitely had momentum following her well earned standing ovation performance at Nationals in Long Island. Witt's mistake definitely helped her, but hey -she came through (2nd in the FS).

    I remember a 'feature' CBS did on Tiffany which really portrayed Tiffany as being under so much pressure. It was the time around when she had "leg imbalances" and had to relearn jumps and everything, but in the clip, CBS said Tiffany's mother stopped the cameras and really laid (sp?) into her, saying she was not telling the truth, implying she was lazy, etc. Sad.

    Debi's exhibition was hilarious and delightful.
     
  16. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5W5EQqXBMU

    :(
     
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Poor Tiffany. So much talent, not even close to fulfilled although she still had a fine career for most peoples standards. I wonder how the 86 World bronze felt for her as well. In a sense probably a triumph after being only 3rd at Nationals, but seeing Debi Thomas who was her age win a World title before her was probably tough as well. A year or two ago she was Americas next superstar and the heir apparent to win the 88 Olympic Gold, and now she was falling behind other Americans, to the point she would even bail before the 88 Olympic Trials thinking she wasnt even making the team.
     
  18. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Tiffany's accomplishments are nothing to sneeze at- US Champion, 2 time World medalist, and 4th place at the Olympics. However, I agree with you Judy that her extreme talent wasn't completely fulfilled. I hope she looks back at her career and is very proud. And about her mother... there was an IceNetwork article a few years ago where she acknowledged her mother's notorious reputation and says that she was taken out of context and that they are very close.
     
  19. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I think 87 Nationals was sad for Tiffany. It was the end of her career. Whatever training regimens those whacky experts hired by her mother had her on gave her too much muscles for skating. I think that caused more of a muscle imbalance than the "muscle imbalance" that her mom "diagnosed" on Tiffany.

    To Tiffany's credit, she always stood by her mom and said that her mom helped her career.
     
  20. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Tiffany was such a wasted talent in hindsight, despite what she did achieve which was amazing considering what she went through. A lot was made of her constant coach hopping but I'll bet her Mother had a lot to do with that. For me she was 'packaged' way too early. If you watch her skating from 1981 worlds which she won, she's just too perfect in a way and it got to the point where I found much of her skating rather contrived.

    By 1986 Worlds her skating was regressing to a degree and not just in the jumps, so her bronze here was really a terrific achievement. ITA that her Mother's interference essentially ruined her career and killed any joy Tiffany may have initially found in skating. Wasn't it 1985 Nationals where as teh favourite going in she was asked what she would do if she didn't win and she replied 'I don't know I'd just die', or words to that effect. Typical teenage hyperbole you might say, but the subtext is very saddening. Such a shame. :(
     
  21. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, Tiffany started her senior career w/ a 3f, 3t, 3s.

    That went to a 3s and 3t,

    Then fell further to the point where she could only do a 3t by '86 worlds.

    I think all of her triples were gone by '87.
     
  22. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Sad.

    But I believe Chin landed a 3t/2t in the short program at the 1987 National Championships in Tacoma. The funny thing is, had Tonya Harding placed ahead of Caryn Kadavy at that event (after Kadavy blew the short program), Chin would have gone to Worlds instead of Caryn.
     
  23. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Tiffany never had a solid 3s technique. It was very swing-y after the 3 turn. She fell on it at 83 Nationals, landed it at 84 Olympics (did she fall out of it at Nationals? ), doubled and popped it at 85 Nationals and Worlds, landed an under-rotated one at 86 Nationals and had to put a hand down at 86 Worlds.

    Tiffany's only reliable triple was the toe.
     
  24. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I want to know who taught Tiffany Chin her axel. The toe takeoff, the lift, she seriously could have made 3axel her money jump along with her 3toe. And yeah, when she no longer weighed 88 pounds she never could get that lift on her salchow.

    I am not a fan of 1986 Worlds. As much as I liked Debi Thomas, she had the whole black thing, the premed thing, the Stanford thing, but her performance was not very great. Caryn Kadavy was far more elegant and the heir apparent, until she showed her competitive brain was made of silly putty. I think Caryn and Nikodinov share some DNA. They always f'd themselves when it was 'their turn'.
     
  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Slightly OT -

    Jill Trenary: She blasted onto the National scene in '87, but wasn't she a serious contender for the '86 team? I seem to recall a puff piece during '87 Nats that Jill had been one-to-watch-out-for leading up to '86 Nats, but suffered a serious injury beforehand. IDK. We're talking about Tiffany fading. I wonder if a healthy Jill would've made '86 Worlds as #3 US gal ... and the team would've been the same 3 years in a row: 1986 - 88
     
  26. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.

    Jill collided with another skater and that skater's blade tore Jill's calf muscle to the bone. She was expected to walk with a limp but with exhaustive physiotherapy, came back even stronger.

    The skater standing between Jill in 5th and Tiffany in 3rd in 1986 was Tracy Damigella (sp?). She was a very good athlete who had fast jump and spin rotation but often two footed her triple jumps. As a side note, she skated at the National Championships in Australia one year and took the title.
     
  27. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Damigella also skate pair for few years? Was she part Australian? I remember watching her take spin lessons from Mr. Lussi in some documentary on PBS years ago.
     
  28. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I think Nikodinov was worst. Caryn had falls or almost always doubled the last 3t, but she never really gave up on the entire program like Angela did after a mistake.
     
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Caryn has a world medal to her credit, too. Unfortunately, Angela never made it that far ...
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont think Angela ever had much chance regardless. She had the misfortune to come in at a time loaded with U.S stars, both Kwan, and an assortment of baby ballerinas and young phenoms (Lipinski, Cohen, Hughes, Meissner, briefly Nam). She was always kind of just lost in the shuffle. I cant think of a year she could have even made the Olympic Team TBH. Maybe she could have won the bronze at the 2001 Worlds had she duplicated her Nationals performance, it is hard to say, especialy when Sarah skated much worse at Nationals and still beat her. She would have had to medal at those Worlds to give herself even a fighting shot of the 2002 team though.

    Caryn had lots of opportunities. Chance to win Nationals in 1986, could have won atleast silver at the 87 Worlds had she done her last 2 jumps she popped open, had a chance of winning Nationals again in 1988. She did go on to have an amazing pro career after her unfulfilled amateur career though.